lower A arm faillure.

There was a discussion of this problem but I don't remember where I read it. But, I believe it was restricted to the very early cars or the late model GT5s(Euro models) that did not have the reinforcing plate added to the rear frame where the lower control arms mounted to. The nut would simply sink/pull through a weakened frame rail on a strong jolt or over-tightening.

I am sure someone will chime in with the details?

Well I have the reinforcement plates on the frame, so that is no problem. But I mean a faillure of the A arm. There must be rust inside. Is this a common problem? I was wondering because both A arms are now filled with particals inside.

Arno

No it isn't common. I'm sure there can and will always be the exception to the rule.
The thickness of the steel used virtually eliminates a rust through type of failure.

The failure as just pointed out was in the insufficient thickness of the frame rails which permitted the mounting bolts to pull through the frame itself.

As a matter of fact, it has been the aluminum billet suspension arms that have the potential to fail since they are cut out of an aluminum alloy, not steel. I haven't heard of any failures with them either though.

There could be other reasons for the rattle inside the tube. You can hear a rattle in mine also. Sounds like a small piece of machined metal or a piece of welding slag that is in there.

I will be honest. I have never been very impressed with the factory welds.

It would probably be a very good idea to reinforce those welds if you were preparing a Pantera for racing. Then again, most production cars get rewelded for that regardless.

I just had to go and listen to if mine will make somekind of sound also. And yes, both of them do. Little particles moving inside the closed steel structure and making pretty cheerful little sound. Propably have been moving around all the time since the days in factory. The caster who makes all the casting for my smaller sculptures, calls that sound "soul of the sculpture".

To reweld the A arm is not so bad idea !
Maybe I have to change my name in Goram, and make some new one's.

I recommend TIG Welding or at least Mig both with gas on mild steel suspension parts.

I've seen three broken stockers. One was caused by continually floor-jacking the whole rear end of the car up by the a-arm, which is only mild steel tubing. It was successfully rewelded.

The second was from a frozen lower cross-shaft which the owner ignored until driving the car with non-movement of the lower shaft cracked the a-arm welds in two places. This one got a replacement a-arm plus a complete rebuild of the whole rear upright.

The third was from using polyurethane bushings on the outer end of an oversized rear swaybar. The geometry of the rear suspension is such that relatively stiff poly out on the ends overstressed and cracked the welds holding the steel channel for the outer bushing. This was also successfully rewelded. For the outer ends of both swaybars, either use rubber or sphere-balls for the necessary compliance.

Do you have pictures of the where the failure occurred on the a arm .. because the welds on these cars are horrible .. the suspension arms material thickness could be a factor and type of welding they used back in 71 - 74 could play a major factor.

My observation on the a arm welds I have off my car at the present moment there is undercut on the welds which leads me to believe there was only one weld pass made and possibly at a high heat ... if you use paint remover to take the paint off the a arm you notice discoloration in the metal .. which leads me to believe they used flux core wire with no gas which weakens the mild steel around the weld. Did the weld fail or around the weld ?

Ron

Another Pantera owner familiar with other Italian cars told me he thought the front suspension components (a arms) were lifted exactly from Maserati.

If there is such a thing as a production Maserati of that era, blame Maserati's sub-contractor.

There is no question that Ford was very "nervous" about their entire Detomaso involvement. They had reason when they saw the quality of some of these components and even the assembly of the Panteras body in some cases.

Whoever the Ford Project Engineers were that were sent to Italy to work on this, they definitely knew the parts suppliers and sourcing routine there.

For "production" components the a-arms are much more then sufficient. When you go racing you stress everything to the max.

Explain to me exactly the level of welding technology available in 1970 for production car components.

A lot of the Mustang components are mild steel, and that's for cost reasons. There is little difference with the thinking in the Pantera production.

The car easily could have reached into the Ferrari $15,000 category without serious restraints.

The "team" Trans-am Mustangs all got attention for reinforcing the tubs by the '68 season.

The Mustangs are semi-monocock (brain is only partially functioning this morning) and has similar stiffness and localized chassis strength considerations like the Pantera.

Suspension componenst where never from Maserati. DeTomas as owner of Masersati used the DeTomaso Deauville platform incl. suspension for the Quattroporte III. Same with the Longchamp / Kyalami derivat.

quote:

Explain to me exactly the level of welding technology available in 1970 for production car components.



A lot of the Mustang components are mild steel, and that's for cost reasons. There is little difference with the thinking in the Pantera production.

The best I can do it relate to a personal friend who lived in Italy during this period and he states the technology was a wire feed welder flux core ...no gas. works well on heavy gauge steel. The welds on my 79 GTS Embo chassis looks like very little spot welding was used ..
I have noticed most 60's and 70's a arms are of the pressed steel manufacturing process rather then major welded components ... similar to that of the mustang upper and lowers ... camaro upper and lowers.

quote:

Originally posted by accobra:

quote:

Explain to me exactly the level of welding technology available in 1970 for production car components.



A lot of the Mustang components are mild steel, and that's for cost reasons. There is little difference with the thinking in the Pantera production.

The best I can do it relate to a personal friend who lived in Italy during this period and he states the technology was a wire feed welder flux core ...no gas. works well on heavy gauge steel. The welds on my 79 GTS Embo chassis looks like very little spot welding was used ..
I have noticed most 60's and 70's a arms are of the pressed steel manufacturing process rather then major welded components ... similar to that of the mustang upper and lowers ... camaro upper and lowers.

OK, but what's the issue with that type of welding? Does it make the steel brittle?

This type of weld is cost effective and quick .. but quality of the weld is questionable on a variety of factors. Due to the lack of shielding gas the area around the weld make the mild steel softer and subject to failure in an extreme condition. Which is probably why the American Cars had mostly pressed steel control arms.