The LS9 engine swap has begun! The LS3 is out of the car and ready for some test fitting.

Check out our ZR1 Pantera blog for awesome updates on the project as it's coming along!

http://zr1pantera.com/

We can't wait to get out on the track in this beast. It will be pushing over 700HP of reliable power at the crank!

Original Post
Very nice! You have to have a set to go against the Pantera purity community who will surly condemn you straight to hell, in your rear view mirror.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Bell:

The LS9 engine swap has begun! The LS3 is out of the car and ready for some test fitting.

Check out our ZR1 Pantera blog for awesome updates on the project as it's coming along!

http://zr1pantera.com/

We can't wait to get out on the track in this beast. It will be pushing over 700HP of reliable power at the crank!

Chris,

What will you be using for an ECU? Also, do you have enough room at the front of the engine for the throttle body and air filter? If not, how will you resolve the problem? Do you need to make any other major changes, going from the LS3 to the LS9?

I'm looking forward to watching your progress.
quote:
Originally posted by David_Nunn:
Chris,

What will you be using for an ECU? Also, do you have enough room at the front of the engine for the throttle body and air filter? If not, how will you resolve the problem? Do you need to make any other major changes, going from the LS3 to the LS9?

I'm looking forward to watching your progress.


We are using the MAST Motorsports wiring harness and computer that is tuned very nicely for the LS9.

We are planning on running the supercharger, air filter, and throttle body in its stock location, unlike our LS3 which had it reversed.

So far it looks like the LS9 will not be any more difficult than the LS3. We are planning on doing a test fit with the engine this weekend to see how everything fits in the engine compartment.

Thanks for your interest in the project! It's going to be getting very exciting within the next few weeks!
quote:
does that bell housing work for both the ls3 and ls9?

What about the new LT4? Maybe you should wait?.....


Yes, the same bellhousing will work for both engines.

The LT4 is an awesome motor for sure, but, the LS9 has more HP with a tad less Torque.

The LS9 with a tad bit over 600 pounds of torque, should be just fine I think. Not to mention, I already have the LS9... Smiler
So over the past two weeks, we have been hard at work in getting the LS9 ready to go into the car. Last weekend, we started disassembling the LS9 so we can get it into the car. We took off the flywheel, exhaust manifolds, and the blower.



The LS9 and LS3 block and heads are almost identical on the outside, but on the inside, they are completely different. Many people believe that the LS9 is simply a supercharged LS3, which it certainly is not. The LS9 was engineered to handle the massive amount of boost the engine will be putting out.

The LS9 supercharger is AWESOME. When you look inside of the blower, you will see just how beefy the rotors are.



We put the LS9 into the car today without the blower and it fit very well in the same location as the LS3. When we attempted to put the blower on, there was not enough room for the front drive snout and throttle body under the window; which is an issue we knew we would have what with the increased height of the engine. In the picture that we have with the engine in the car, we removed the snout so we could see what the engine would look like when sitting in the car and boy does it look cool.



Our workaround for the throttle body issue is to lower the motor about 2.5 inches to make up for the lack of space behind the firewall. This will provide a few benefits for us: it will lower the center of gravity to provide enhanced handling when cornering & it will allow us to not have to modify the car to allow the pulley's and throttle body to fit behind the firewall.

Next weekend we will be lowering the motor and working on getting the front-drive system installed. Stay tuned!

See full gallery here: ZR1 Pantera 2-9-14 Updates
quote:
Originally posted by George P:
Lowering the engine that much, are you going to use a "flipped" ZF?


Hopefully we will not have to. It's not in our plans, but if need be, we will. It looks like the engine will be able to be angled enough so we won't need to.

In other news, we got the engine lowered an inch and a half this weekend and everything fits pretty good! Way better than we had anticipated.

We've updated the blog with a few more pics too.



Check them out! ZR1 Pantera 3-2-14 Updates
quote:
dare to be different - who is to say Alejandro de Tomaso would not have gone this way if he had the opportunity Wink applause


I bet if Ford pissed him off or Chevy made him a better deal we would have ended up with a 350 in our cars who's to say. I have to admit I am not gung ho for this swap either but it is much more tasteful than some of the stuff I have seen pantera owners do. One car comes to mind is the red roadster I posted a while back. YUK. At lease Scott will end up with a smooth running reliable and extremely powerful car when he is done. Most of all he is doing this because its for him and not for resale etc.
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraWanabe:
quote:
Originally posted by Belgiumbarry:
nice job !

but ...

putting that in a Pantera is as putting it in a Cobra

BLASPHEMY ! Razzer Big Grin


I know what you mean, I have to say a prayer and burn a candle every time I read this thread.


nono, they are right... with a 350 in our cars i could at least reach the dizzy without gymnastic Big Grin
I will take that old worn out LS3 off your hands for my Pantera. I could probably scrape together a couple hundred bucks. Heck, I would even throw in a case of beer too.

On a serious note, I think the LS9 swap is great. I would love to be able to do this to my Pantera. I would even be very pleased with a LS3. However, I am also the guy that joked about putting a LS3 into my 65 Fastback.

So what is your next project that your putting the LS3 in?

Devin
quote:
Originally posted by No Quarter:
quote:
BLASPHEMY !


Not at all. This is not a Ford with a smart body, it's a DeTomaso with all kinds of options on the engine side. Thankfully for us. Using the latest and greatest engine makes sense, regardless of who built it. IMO


all kidding beside, for a purist like me it's ofcourse not done. Sure not when wants to keep the value one can expect.Changing brand of engine makes it a "kit-car" , which can be great , but only for the owner.His "market" for resale will become smaller and smaller , but it is his decision and he has the right to do so.

I'm swapping a M5 S38 B8 in a '70 BMW CS... a bit the same curse but it's for rallying and "consuming" the car Big Grin , resale value is here of no importance .....
quote:
all kidding beside, for a purist like me it's ofcourse not done. Sure not when wants to keep the value one can expect.Changing brand of engine makes it a "kit-car" , which can be great , but only for the owner.His "market" for resale will become smaller and smaller , but it is his decision and he has the right to do so.


Yea right, my Pantera is a kit car...

I can tell you right now there are a TON of people that would want this car with the LS9, not just the "owner".

But who ever said anything about resale value? That is not what this project is about. This car is NOT for sale, nor will it be in my lifetime. It is nice of you to be concerned about my financial well being.

I am glad we can agree that it is my decision since this is a free country and it is, after all, MY CAR.

By the way, I could EASILY put the Cleveland back in the car if I ever did decide to sell the car in the unlikely event that hell freezes over.

Scott
quote:
By the way, I could EASILY put the Cleveland back in the car if I ever did decide to sell the car in the unlikely event that hell freezes over.


Well stated Scott. LMAO Like I said we very well could have have Chevy engines in our cars. Think ISO and Bizzarini. I bet Alejandro was not that married to the Ford marque. Most likely its the best offer he had at the time.
quote:
all kidding beside, for a purist like me it's ofcourse not done. Sure not when wants to keep the value one can expect.Changing brand of engine makes it a "kit-car" , which can be great , but only for the owner.His "market" for resale will become smaller and smaller , but it is his decision and he has the right to do so.


One of the reasons I bought a Pantera is so I could do what I wanted to the car without being looked down on by others. I guess this may not be true in some cases.
I enjoy my car MUCH more than an original car. Its different. It has character. Oh, and its fast. IMO, if you want original, go buy a vette or Ferrari.
Scott, when hell freezes over, let me know what you're asking. I would certainly be interested.
When you're done with the install, take a video of you driving the car cross country, smooth and reliable and also being able to smoke 95% of the cars on the road.
Lead. Don't follow.
Will
quote:
Originally posted by 4NHOTROD:
quote:
all kidding beside, for a purist like me it's ofcourse not done. Sure not when wants to keep the value one can expect.Changing brand of engine makes it a "kit-car" , which can be great , but only for the owner.His "market" for resale will become smaller and smaller , but it is his decision and he has the right to do so.


One of the reasons I bought a Pantera is so I could do what I wanted to the car without being looked down on by others. I guess this may not be true in some cases.
I enjoy my car MUCH more than an original car. Its different. It has character. Oh, and its fast. IMO, if you want original, go buy a vette or Ferrari.
Scott, when hell freezes over, let me know what you're asking. I would certainly be interested.
When you're done with the install, take a video of you driving the car cross country, smooth and reliable and also being able to smoke 95% of the cars on the road.
Lead. Don't follow.
Will


yesyesyes... but .... Big Grin
i do not agree with buying a vette or Ferrari . What have those cars that a Pantera hasn't ? Why not buy a Ferrari and swap a LS9 ? The same story... i think i know, and without beeing pretensious , the pantera is one of the cheapest most mean looking exotic on the market , so damned to be the basis for all kind of "rich" kitcars .Just as the cheap beetle was rebaptisd in all kind of sand-buggys and ridiculous wannebee sportscars.
What's wrong with a healty 400HP Cleveland? Nothing, perhaps power in the straights.I have Europe's best coilovers ( Intrax ) and semi, road legal , race tires Michelin TB . And the 400 HP are enough, the chassis doens't need more beating.In corners i mean Smiler
I ever made the same mistake, had a 500HP Viper that runs very well, i had to put on a Roe Racing blower,because i could , had 700 HP and the car became just dangerous.Yes, i could smoke 95%. Sold it.
Please do understand i do not want to argue, just express my opinion and at least understand that we have some "bad" feelings everytime there's a swap in a Pantera. Everytime it loses his origine and just serves as a puzzle to what it could have been but not is.In fact , real blasphemy for the Ford Cleveland, a Ferrari with a another engine brand is just ridiculous accepted here in europe....and looked upon as a simple violated kitcar.No more , no less.Why not our Panteras ? Confused

again IMHO. sorry.
quote:
again IMHO. sorry.


I don't really care about your opinion. Please stop posting on this thread!

This thread is a build log for people that want to see the progress of this project. It is not intended to be a thread to debate the merits of the project.
quote:
Originally posted by ZR1 Pantera:
quote:
again IMHO. sorry.


I don't really care about your opinion. Please stop posting on this thread!

This thread is a build log for people that want to see the progress of this project. It is not intended to be a thread to debate the merits of the project.


please accept my apologies ZR1 Pantera ,you are right, i got carried away in my selfisch point of view which has nothing to do with the thread here.I was way off topic.
Even more , i do honestly admire your skills of work and ideas .
Sorry.
quote:
please accept my apologies ZR1 Pantera ,you are right, i got carried away in my selfisch point of view which has nothing to do with the thread here.I was way off topic.
Even more , i do honestly admire your skills of work and ideas .
Sorry.


Thank you Barry for saying that!!! You are an honorable man!!!
quote:
I remember a while back you were toying with building some 180s for the LS3 (before the LS9 project came about). What are the plans for the exhaust on the LS9?


I haven't decided yet. I really like the look of the 180's but the compact stock exhaust manifolds are a work of art. They are mini headers in compact exhaust manifold.

What do you all think? 180's or custom exhaust?

Attachments

Photos (1)
I would do 180's
quote:
Originally posted by ZR1 Pantera:
quote:
I remember a while back you were toying with building some 180s for the LS3 (before the LS9 project came about). What are the plans for the exhaust on the LS9?


I haven't decided yet. I really like the look of the 180's but the compact stock exhaust manifolds are a work of art. They are mini headers in compact exhaust manifold.

What do you all think? 180's or custom exhaust?
Why put a chevy engine in a Pantera?? Just because you can Is unexceptable. The 351c is more cost effective since you already have one. Easier to upgrade the motor with fuel injection, different heads etc. The cheapest bang for the buck is a stroked 302 or 351w. Lite weight too. But, of course If you can afford it, you could put any motor in. Just saying.
quote:
Originally posted by webbers:
Why put a chevy engine in a Pantera?? Just because you can Is unexceptable. The 351c is more cost effective since you already have one. Easier to upgrade the motor with fuel injection, different heads etc. The cheapest bang for the buck is a stroked 302 or 351w. Lite weight too. But, of course If you can afford it, you could put any motor in. Just saying.


The 351C was not more cost effective. If you had followed all of our projects beforehand you would know that about 3 years ago, our 351C block was unusable, and it was going to cost over $3,000 to get it fixed. Instead of waste our money on fixing up a motor that is over 4 decades old, we ended up selling all of our usable parts from it, made a good chunk of change, and put it towards an LS3. Then, once that didn't have enough power for us, we decided to swap it with an LS9. Why? Because the LS9 is just about the best small block V8 ever made and it is freakin' cool.

Why put money into an engine that is over 40 years old? Our car will be just as reliable as a brand new vehicle with more power than a 351C can reliably push. Tell me the next time you can drive from California to New York and back pushing over 700HP out of a 351C.

It's not so much as finding the cheapest solution, but more about finding a solution that makes sense for us and the LS9 fits every single need we had. Was it expensive? Yeah a little bit. But compare that to a comparable Ford engine (Ford GT motor: over $30k) and it is relatively cheap.

quote:
Originally posted by webbers:
My Apologies too. I find a lot of Panteras have different engines in them. Even a 426 Hemi. LS is a good motor.


Agreed. To each their own. Cool
Over the past few weekends we have made quite a bit more progress.

Last weekend we were able to cut the firewall opening a bit wider so the front drive would fit a little bit easier and we got the engine and bellhousing test fit and it fit great!

This weekend we got the LS9 and ZF in the car. Over the next week we will need to fabricate new ZF mounts to push it back about an inch so we can assemble the front drive on the motor.

Progress has been a little slow as a lot of our time has been working on our new product that we will be announcing in the coming weeks. It is surely going to improve the way the Pantera drives for ALL Pantera owners. (Sorry, I had to plug the new product in here. We are really excited about it! Big Grin)

More progress is coming soon, that's for sure! Check out our newest blog post on the site with more pictures! 3-16-14 Updates

Chris are the exhaust manifolds that came with the engine something other than cast iron? Too shiny in the picture to be rough cast iron?

Looks like they would want to exit right on the Pantera chassis member and engine mount?

Nice compact package (except for the blower drive).
quote:
Chris are the exhaust manifolds that came with the engine something other than cast iron? Too shiny in the picture to be rough cast iron?

Looks like they would want to exit right on the Pantera chassis member and engine mount?


They are Stainless Steel. If I used them they would need a quick 90 degree turn. I haven't even test fit them with the engine in so I don't really even know if they would fit at this point.

They are beautiful units but I am really leaning towards 180's...

Scott
quote:
Originally posted by ZR1 Pantera:
quote:
Chris are the exhaust manifolds that came with the engine something other than cast iron? Too shiny in the picture to be rough cast iron?

Looks like they would want to exit right on the Pantera chassis member and engine mount?


They are Stainless Steel. If I used them they would need a quick 90 degree turn. I haven't even test fit them with the engine in so I don't really even know if they would fit at this point.

They are beautiful units but I am really leaning towards 180's...

Scott


They are nice but shorties really don't do much for you anyway.

They do reduce restriction some but don't offer any scavenging effect.

Maybe a blower engine doesn't care that much?

If you went this far, stepped tube 180's would probably be worth the effort, at least for show.
Won't the other LS headers you had before fit this engine?

I've noticed a lot of the SC engines (of all makes) with short exhausts still blow out some flames when you step off of the throttle.

I got lectured by a local cop that my entire car was illegal. He wanted to know where all of the emission equipment was?

When he found out all I was required to have was a PCV and evaporative controls AND they were there, he was speechless and walked away in a grumph!

I love doing that but I know he is out there lurking with the DB meter somewhere waiting to pull me over and do a curbside test on the exhausts. You just never know when trouble will appear out of nowhere? Wink
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

I got lectured by a local cop that my entire car was illegal. He wanted to know where all of the emission equipment was?

When he found out all I was required to have was a PCV and evaporative controls AND they were there, he was speechless and walked away in a grumph!



I'm surprised he believed you.

Usually they are determined to "reinvent" history and say your 40 year old car should have every emission device on it ever thought of, even if they weren't invented when your car was built. Doh !
quote:
Won't the other LS headers you had before fit this engine?


Our prior engine used the stock exhaust manifolds. I made a header pipe that connected the exhaust manifold to the stock ansa exhaust. My plan was always to make headers for the old motor but I just never got around to it.

Looks like 180's are the way to go...
quote:
Originally posted by Aus Ford:
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

I got lectured by a local cop that my entire car was illegal. He wanted to know where all of the emission equipment was?

When he found out all I was required to have was a PCV and evaporative controls AND they were there, he was speechless and walked away in a grumph!



I'm surprised he believed you.

Usually they are determined to "reinvent" history and say your 40 year old car should have every emission device on it ever thought of, even if they weren't invented when your car was built. Doh !


Worse! This cop wasn't born then yet!

I always think the issue is the headers. They are loud, but you know what? I just test drove a Porsche Cayman which is a little loud to begin with at idle and when you hit the "exhaust" button on the console the thing turns into a Harley Davidson.

The stacks of the Webers sticking up with no air cleaners on them doesn't help my case either.

I don't know how the California guys get by with this the way the CHiPs are and curbside inspections out there. NY generally doesn't care. You could always say you just blew out the muffler a minute ago here. Problem is he is still going to pull you over and the car has no ground clearance to go over the curb alongside of the road.

I had that discussion with a NYS Trooper and he wanted to know why it took so long for me to pull over. I mentioned the ground clearance and he said so what. I said that's all well and good but there was no safety/immediacy issue and I was looking for a safe place to pull over AND is NYS going to pay for the damage to the car particularly considering forcing me off of the road was not necessary? I don't think so?

He didn't like that. Gave me a speeding ticket. He does have to justify his job some how you know so that he is entitled to a pension? Wink



The way the PDK transmission works, you just keep hammering the floor with the accelerator and I'm telling you that car is loud AND you can get an optional $3500 "sport exhaust" factory installed! I don't think that makes it quieter?

Maybe Porsche comes and fights with the cop for you considering (JUST) the STANDARD Cayman is $88,000? Try about $100k for the S. The Cayman is the ENTRY level Porsche! The 911 I liked was $168,000.
So we've put quite a bit of work in the past few weeks.

We have fabricated our new billet aluminum transmission mounts that move the engine and tranny back an inch.



We got the mounts bolted onto the tranny, the tranny bolted in, and the engine mounted in.

The blower and front drive now fits perfectly in the car and the engine is perfectly centered in the car.

Our next step will be taking the motor back out, prepping the oil, fuel, and water systems, and mate the engine and transmission with the clutch and flywheel installed.

It's getting exciting! We can't wait to drive the car!



Look at more pics over at http://zr1pantera.com
Big-block conversions move the ZF back FOUR full inches with no known halfshaft problems. Biggest problem for most engines is the oil pan notch vs the under-engine crossmember. But some LS engines are dry-sump with shallow pans and can mount high enough that clearance is not an issue.

As far as the 'Chevy-in-a-Ford' thing, its well known that GM "borrowed" designs from a number of sources in building the LS series engines, including the hot-rodders. Some hard parts adapt almost directly from LS to thirty-years-older 351-Cs! Just look at them as modernized Clevelands, or what Ford might have done had they not thrown the Cleveland design in the trash in '74 & kept the Windsor truck engines.
quote:
As far as the 'Chevy-in-a-Ford' thing, its well known that GM "borrowed" designs from a number of sources in building the LS series engines, including the hot-rodders. Some hard parts adapt almost directly from LS to thirty-years-older 351-Cs! Just look at them as modernized Clevelands, or what Ford might have done had they not thrown the Cleveland design in the trash in '74 & kept the Windsor truck engines.


roll on floor See I guess we have a Ford after all...
quote:
Originally posted by Bosswrench:
Big-block conversions move the ZF back FOUR full inches with no known halfshaft problems. Biggest problem for most engines is the oil pan notch vs the under-engine crossmember. But some LS engines are dry-sump with shallow pans and can mount high enough that clearance is not an issue.

As far as the 'Chevy-in-a-Ford' thing, its well known that GM "borrowed" designs from a number of sources in building the LS series engines, including the hot-rodders. Some hard parts adapt almost directly from LS to thirty-years-older 351-Cs! Just look at them as modernized Clevelands, or what Ford might have done had they not thrown the Cleveland design in the trash in '74 & kept the Windsor truck engines.


I will say this, that is one heck of a compact engine package and really fits the chassis well.

There are 1000hp axle shafts available now, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Being the paranoid that I am I would immediately be concerned about the supercharger with the ZF since all published information and quotes from Butfoy state that it is a hard 550ft-lb torque limit.

Actually Quella proved with doing at least three 427 Ford installs into the Pantera that isn't necessarily a problem though.

There's no question the ZF held and is holding up fine with those installs.

The only thing aesthetically that bothers me here now is the coil packs sitting on the valve covers.

I acknowledge that I'm probably in the minority on that anyway as many will say form follows function and therefore they are beautiful?

There's no question that the fabricated parts like the engine and trans mounts are coming out beautifully so I can compensate by lusting for them.

I think ultimately what will set the finished install off is the headers? Those and the supercharger all tucked in like that are just going to be like a Tiffany diamond necklace hanging over the cleavage of a set of 36DD's.

I try not to stare in situations like that but most understand that it is a hopeless situation and that I am only being a moth attracted uncontrollably to the flame?

So far so good. I'm already working on my safety harness to keep me from falling into the crevice between those babies on this car.

It's seems inevitable though that you'll find me with my head stuck in there between...the header tubes! Just checking for fit you understand. Purely scientifically. Big Grin

Beautiful Chris. Can't wait to see it finished.
I personally love this swap and can't wait to see the final product.

As for Doug's aesthetic concern, I have often thought that the coil packs do take a little away from the look of the engine. Interestingly, I have seen remote mounts for the coil packs on the LS3 but do not know if they make them for the LS7. I have heard mixed reviews on these. There is also a company making a cover that looks like old school big block valve covers to hide them on the LS3.

I still would like to have that old, junk, worn out LS3 they are replacing for my Pantera.

Keep up the good work Chris and Scott.

Devin
quote:
This is what this topic is about. For those interested in the SACC Restorations LS9 Build.For those that want to start a topic to debate Chevy engines, please start your own thread. Thank you...

Sorry Scott I posted the ebay ad to show that there are others. Personally I don't like the approach the ebay car took. Your build will be fantactically functional. Looking foreword to seeing it done.
Thanks everyone for all of the positive feedback. We like doing the swap for our own enjoyment, but it's great when we get good feedback from other people that like our work as well.

Sorry for the lack of updates too, guys. We've been really busy tackling a bunch of things with the engine swap, including a couple of issues we've had to fix, and of course Easter this last weekend (which we hope everyone had a good one!)

Anywho, over the past few weeks we've been working hard in getting the engine mated with the transmission which turned into a much bigger project than we had originally anticipated. We began by installing the flywheel on the engine and it fit great! Then, we decided to attempt to polish our aluminum bellhousing and boy did that turn into a long process. We spent almost an entire day polishing that sucker and it came out pretty awesome. It could use a bit more work and elbow grease but it's good as a start. We also fabricated a brand new clutch mount that bolts directly to the bellhousing.





The next weekend we installed the discs and pressure plate onto the engine and that went very well. It fit perfect and looked bitchin'! But when we tried mounting the bellhousing onto the engine, we ran into an issue. Due to the new dual-disc and pressure plate design, the depth was increased from what we ran with the LS3. It was incredibly close to fitting, but it was off enough to cause us an issue. So to combat this issue, we ended up countersinking all the bolts on the clutch and the bellhousing so we didn't have any issues with it hitting the bellhousing.



After doing that, we still had a few areas where the clearance was too close for comfort. So what were we to do? Well of course; we had to figure out a way to mount the bellhousing on our machine to machine the edge down where it was hitting.



After spending a couple hours machining, we finally got the bellhousing to fit.



Once we got it to fit, it was time to mate the engine and the transmission.



It's been a super busy past couple of weeks but we are finally going to get the engine and transmission into the car for the final time.

Oh and I also forgot to mention that we got the fuel tank out of the car as well. We are going with a new fuel system design (very similar to what the ZR1 Corvette uses). Basically we will have a 12-15 gallon tank in the trunk area with a smaller (2-5 gallon) tank near the engine that we use as the feed for the engine. This works very similar to a dry sump oil system that makes sure the engine gets a constant flow of fuel. (It also betters the cars weight distribution and makes the engine compartment a little bit prettier and more symmetrical, because hey, everyone loves symmetry Big Grin). And we figured, it's a purpose built sports car; we don't need trunk space. Cool

Check out the full gallery on our blog
This project is very interesting.

A long time ago, I was interested in doing a Crown V-8 converion into a Corvair.

I never liked the small block Chevy engine alternatives available.

That was also before I was aware of a ZF.

This drivetrain, if money and value invested was not a consideration, is a perfect solution to that one.

I always noticed the similarities in the the tubs between the two cars as well.

I haven't even heard of one of the Corv8's even still being around, but it was an interesting thought?

I never thought you'd have this much work to do on the bellhousing but the challenge looks like fun.

Thanks for posting. I'm enjoying the thread. Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by Dago:
Nice project Chris,
I am really interested in your cabel shifter system. Do have some more information that?

grtz Arno


Thanks a lot Arno! Your engine looks very nice too! We will have more info on the cable shifter very soon. Hang tight Cool

quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
Thanks for posting. I'm enjoying the thread.


Thanks Doug!
This weekend we got quite a bit more work done on the car. We got a new support piece installed to strengthen the side of the engine hatch opening area where we cut.

Check out the video of my dad welding it in

After we got the support piece in, we decided to get our new firewall panels installed. We used to have diamond plate on our firewall but with the new engine, we decided to go with a different design. We got a brushed stainless steel plate that turned out awesome. We finished both sides and were debating whether or not to do a top piece (since the engine will cover it) but since we have left over material, we're going to finish it off and do a top piece.



After we get the top piece in, we will be putting the motor in!

View more pics here
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Bell:
This weekend we got quite a bit more work done on the car. We got a new support piece installed to strengthen the side of the engine hatch opening area where we cut.

Check out the video of my dad welding it in

After we got the support piece in, we decided to get our new firewall panels installed. We used to have diamond plate on our firewall but with the new engine, we decided to go with a different design. We got a brushed stainless steel plate that turned out awesome. We finished both sides and were debating whether or not to do a top piece (since the engine will cover it) but since we have left over material, we're going to finish it off and do a top piece.



After we get the top piece in, we will be putting the motor in!

View more pics here


Gotta make Dad earn his keep! Big Grin

I did the brushed stainless bulkhead and engine covers in my car too. I have never been sorry about that at all. I think they are a classy touch to add to any Pantera.

They can always be taken out. They are just held in by a few strategically placed stainless sheet metal screws.

I know you will love yours. They help so much in keeping the engine bay clean and presentable.

Don't use Brillo pads on them though. For some inexplicable reason the pads transfer steel to the stainless and that will leave rust stains.

Very weird if you ask me. Wipe them down with Windex like you would do with the glass and the chrome and a paper towel.

I've worked before with stainless sheet and have found that in the long run you, anyone, is better off putting 90 degree bent edges on the sheets. For one thing it hides the cut edges but more importantly if you don't the sheets have a tendency of developing ripples that you can see in the surfaces. Especially when they are exposed to heat/cool cycles. Just my opinion of a better way to do them and you definitely need a brake to do the bends on.

In my case that fit into wanting to install more firewall insulation because it created a space to put it and a shield to protect it.

Now stop talking and get back to work so we can see the finished product.

Dad has got to weld up those headers. Big Grin
It has been a crazy couple months. We built our display and held the tech session at the Pantera Owners Club of America Annual Fun Rally, and continued development on our new cable short shifter, and finally finished the dry sump oil system for the Pantera.

To figure out the dry sump system, we had to first find a tank. We ended up going with the OEM tank out of the ZR1 Corvette. While it is a very nice tank, it was hard to find a location and a way to mount it because it is a very awkward shape with very few mounting locations.





We fabricated a mount for the dry sump tank that mounts it upright on the passenger side of the engine. This allows us to use very short oil lines into the engine.

Here are some pictures of the block that we fabricated for the oil input and output:



Now we are finishing up the Oil Cooling/Filtering system that will be located on the driver’s side of the engine.

Lot’s of fabrication work going on in the SACC shop. More updates to come shortly!

Check out more pics on the blog: zr1pantera.com
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
I am ordering a Smithy! What you guys do with it is unbelievable! Nice work. How are you ever going to fit headers in there though? Its getting very crowded in there.


The Smithy is a great machine! Thanks a lot!

And it is getting a bit crowded but we are being sure to leave enough space between all of the components and where we are going to run the headers. Stay tuned Wink
quote:
Originally posted by Rocky:
Very cool.

So your alternator is driven off the Rotary Compressor, or is that one huge belt?

You need to consider one of those amazing "overdrive" water pump pulleys for the serpentine system!

Rocky


The Alternator, AC, and the Crank are on one, 6 rib belt, and the Supercharger, Water Pump, and Crank are on one, 11 rib belt.
The last two weeks have been jam packed with finishing systems. Our car is getting very close to being able to be driven. We are probably about five weeks out from having a drivable car.

Front Drive:

For the Front Drive system, we ended up having to find two custom belts due to the placement of the pulleys. For the supercharger serpentine belt, we actually had to buy a 12 rib belt, and cut it down to an 11 rib as they didn’t make the correct size that we needed in the 11 ribs. As far as we have found, the only 11 rib serpentine belt readily available, is the stock belt that is used on the LS9, which was too long for the amount of pulleys that we are using. We decided to forgo the power steering pulley and pump for easier fitment in the car. Plus, who needs power steering? Also, check out the little block that is in the pics below. While it seems little, that block is very vital for the engine to run right in our application. It is used to plug the hole where one of the emission sensors goes.

See more pics here



Cooling System

For the LS9, we decided to go with all molded water tubes. You wouldn’t believe the amount of time we spent searching for different shapes, sizes, and lengths for these water tubes. We ended up ordering 6 or 7 water tubes, and 5 of them fit absolutely perfectly in the car and look like they were made for our installation. We couldn’t be any happier with the cooling system.

Here is an overview of how the flow in the cooling system goes: Radiator > Electric Water Pump > LS9 > Oil Cooler > Radiator.

For the LS9, we decided to go with a water-to-oil cooler instead of the air-to-oil cooler that we used with the LS3. (Actually, one of the only Ford parts in our engine system LOL). It should be interesting to see what the water and oil temps look like with the use of the cooler.

See more pics here



Oil System

The oil system is now complete as well. As you saw in our previous post, we got the dry sump system all connected to the engine, but to finish the system, we needed to get the oil filter and oil cooler connected. In order to get the lines connected, we needed to make custom hose adapters to connect the AN style lines with the design on the oil cooler. (As a side note; it’s insane how many special adapters we have had to make to get the engine running. Thank goodness we have a machine to get all these parts pumped out quickly). We got all the braided steel lines put in and connected, and the engine is one step closer to being started.

See more pics here



We have three systems left, the fuel, intercooler, and air intake systems. For the fuel system, we are getting a custom tank made that will fit in the front trunk. We are hoping to get about 10-12 gallons out of the front trunk, with a 3-5 gallon sump tank near the engine. This will help balance the weight in the car and should hopefully help handling. For the intercooler, we are going to mount the radiator in the front of the car right in front of the large radiator. It’s funny; when we were looking for a place to mount it, as soon as we looked under the hood, it was like the intercooler radiator was made for the Pantera. It fits perfectly (pictures coming soon). For the air intake system, we will be building side intake gills that will direct cool, fresh air right into the engine. We still need to construct the gills and mount the air filter so that will be about two weeks out.

Of course after we finish those systems, we need to run all of the electrical to run this beast, plus get the headers constructed. We are utilizing the MAST Motorsports ECU and Control System which, with the headers, should deliver around 700HP at the crank.

It’s getting really exciting over here. We can see the light at the end of the tunnel and it’s approaching fast.
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
I can see your need for the cable shifter. Smiler

Why are there two tanks for this engine?


Yes, definitely a need for the cable shifter... LOL

The tank on the drivers side is actually for the air suspension, while the tank on the passengers side is for the oil system.
quote:
Originally posted by comp2:
Looks like you can pretty much eliminate the bubble.


Yes the bubble will be almost completely flat. The only hump we will have will be for the air intake which will have to come out the front and then down to the drivers side near the oil cooler. There we will be mounting the air box with cleaner and ducting it to the outer gills of the car that we will be constructing.
Wow, the last month has seen so much progress! Where to start...

Electrical System:

The wiring of the engine has begun. We mounted the ECU and have started wiring the engine. Our MAST Motorsports wiring harness has so many options for controlling the engine and other systems. It is designed to control almost every system in the car, but since we already have a pretty good wiring harness in the car, we are only going to use it to control the engine. We ran the wiring as clean as possible, but we will probably construct a few covers to make the engine compartment look even nicer.



Intake System:

We finished relocating the throttle body and constructing the intake tube from the blower to the throttle body. We are just finish welding it, and it will be ready to install for the final time. (We will have more pics of the intake system when we get the final weld done on the intake tube). The last part of the intake system is to construct the airbox and the intake gill. The airbox will be located in the cavity between the outer panel and the inner engine bay panel.



Intercooler System:

With the stock intercooler, we couldn't fit the water line adapter between the window and the blower. To overcome this issue, we made adapters that would convert the intercooler to AN style fittings. Now that we have that done, it's time to plumb the water lines to the intercooler radiator located at the front of the car.

Speaking of, we finished mounting the intercooler radiator in the front of the car. The last thing we have to do is mount the reservoir for the system which fits PERFECTLY behind the drivers side headlight bucket.



Fuel System:

The fuel system is getting close to completion as well. We designed a custom fuel tank and had it built, and it is awesome! The rough capacity is around 15 gallons and the tank is built out of 3/16" aluminum for extra strength. This will help balance the weight in the car as well. With the great fuel efficiency of the LS9, that should give us a realistic 300-350 miles of range on the highway (although, I don't think we will be taking it easy with this engine so I am not sure if we will attain that figure ;-) ). Right now, you are probably thinking "where are they going to put the battery?" We have decided to move it to the back, near the engine. We are going to use our current Optima Red Top, but we are looking into a lightweight lithium-ion racing battery to replace the heavy lead-acid battery.

Since the fuel tank is now in the front of the car, we thought it was a good idea to integrate a high-flow fuel sump system in the car for high performance. Our friends over at Radium Engineering thought our project was really cool so they decided to sponsor and help us out with a Fuel Surge Tank (FST). If you don't know what that is, an FST is designed to prevent fuel starvation to the engine on vehicles with inadequate fuel tank baffling. The FST fuel pump feeds the fuel rail. The volume of fuel inside the surge tank acts as a buffer to always keep the FST pump supplied with fuel. In this system, we will have that pump supplying the engine with fuel, and a lower powered pump to keep the FST filled with fuel.




So I guess my original prediction of 5 weeks until the car is drivable was a little bit exaggerated, but we are definitely getting way closer.

Oh, and I forgot one last thing. We decided to go with the exhaust manifolds until we take the car back apart to paint and do bodywork. Because of this, we decided to polish the manifolds and WOW do they look great.



Our to-do list is dwindling.

For more pics, check out our post on http://zr1pantera.com
quote:
Originally posted by No Quarter:
Wow Eeker


Thanks!

quote:
Originally posted by JTpantera:
I hope that you will consider bringing the car to the 2015 POCA Lone Star Fun Rally. I am confident people would enjoy seeing your creative fabrication on the Pantera


We are currently planning on going to the next POCA Fun Rally. It's looking to be lots of fun!
quote:
so chris at one time in your build you said something about cheap and reliable 650 hp with good fuel economy. i was wondering how thats working out how much are you spending just curious.


I am pretty sure he said "reliable 650 hp with good fuel economy". Not sure where you got cheap from. If he said that, I couldn't find it...

Thanks for your interest in the project.

Regarding the cost of the project, it is right where it should be! We thanks our sponsors for the help and support of this project!

Scott

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