Mangusta lock set

Guys, a question: How to remove the door lock cylinder? Thanks! Lee

Lee, I take that as a sign of progress that you are dealing w/ door locks  This pic should help, there's a small pin (missing here) that hold the cylinder in.  It's presence is probably masked with some corrosion etc, IIRC the body of the lock was staked slightly to retain the pin but once installed in the housing it has no place to go.  If you start drilling the pin with a small OD drill (smaller than the pin OD) it will probably just pull out, no damage to the pin's bore.

Lee,

What are you doing that you are tearing this thing apart to this level???  

Re-keying to fit your original key?

Cleaning dirt out of the cracks?

Can't sleep at night....find yourself in the garage with tools in your hands???

Just wunderin'!!!

Ciao!

Interesting. 

 The door lock on a Mangusta is a very close cousin to a Pantera trunk lock, pictured in the photo.

 As some of you may recall, I have figured out how to re-key both door locks and trunk locks for the Pantera.  The door and trunk lock cylinders both use the same pin and spring combination 

 As the other photo shows, the lock cylinder is a somewhat unique construction in that it does not use round pins but instead flat, stamped steel pins. 

 To remove the retaining pin I drill a small diameter hole immediately outside the pin, but angled into the pin.  Once you have drilled a small divot into the actual pin, you should be able to take a small probe like a dental pick and pry the pin out of the housing.

Two more things:

 Why do you want to remove the lock cylinder?

 Can I be of any assistance in your project?

Larry 

Without wishing to hijack this post too much, is the ignition lock also Fiat 124??? I’ve seen different types shown on Mangustas some with plain surround and some a knurled screw on surround.

cheers

The ignition switch was a "panel" switch used on a few Fiat sedans with flat dashes like the Goose, Fiat 600 comes to memory glands.....but that crowd pretty much sucked all the spares up across the planet years ago!  (Hmmmm, I wonder why?)

There were some "very cheap" knock offs selling a while ago, which I bought one of, and was so unimpressed that I tossed it in my box of spare parts and never installed it.....  Had an original lose it's smoke...and burn up my wiring, wasn't going to trust a cheap copy......

We've been over this topic a while back and had come across some very close looking switches with a knurled nut,  from the auto parts plastic racks...... I had to put some spade connectors on screw terminals in my case (stuck away from home base!) but others found some suitable switches with spades....... These were "tractor" or other such items that needed starter switches....

The classic "failure symptom" before failure is a hot ignition switch while headlamps are on.......  New switch is cool as a cucumber!

In my case, the hot lead was the bottom connection on the switch!  When it failed internally, bits fell down inside and shorted case to hot! Lots of smoke......

Therefore, I strongly recommend that people invert their original switch so that the hot lead is on the top.  Looks the same externally....but protects you a tad more! (I hope!)   Also, install a quick disconnect on the NEGATIVE side of the battery!   In case this does happen, then you don't need to scramble to find a wrench.....while your car wiring burns up!

Ciao!!!!

...you guys are great. Nate, you are right--hope to put in the windows in a few weeks (where M!ke was a big help last time I was near the car...). Steve, you are right---its not like I ever expect to lock the door (!)...geez, just the thought of somebody breaking the glass if I left it somewhere would convince me to always keep the windows rolled down (!) And Larry, thanks--I saw the other picture you posted of the Pantera cylinder, and read the PanteraPlace article on drilling a hole to remove from the steering column. The stainless trim on mine (around the key opening) has a small dent, and neither am I sure the original key is somewhere to be found. Just curious (before I probably end up mailing to you ) How are tumblers sized to a key? (are the flat plates each sized?) At least, it was easy enough to find original keys already cut to code. But time to look and see if the original door keys are somewhere around the house...

V8jet, the correct ignition switch is a Magneti Marelli Q148, with off/run/start only. Good news, there have been a couple NOS with keys on Ebay lately, the bad news is that not just Fiat 850 bus also Ferrari/Maserati used them....I  thought $250 was expensive 2 years ago (and the ones there are even higher). The knurled bezel is correct. Nate noticed that Moto Guzzi switches of the time share the bezel (but only have off/run).

  The heating thing due to the headlamps can be solved by a relay at the fuse box; the wiring now runs from the battery to the ignition switch, then thru the toggle on the dash to the indicator stalk, then back to the fuse box behind the cab, before finally back towards the headlamps...If you want a bit brighter headlamps and also remove the load from the switch(es), you could use the headlight wires now as control to a relay (direct the feeds into the fuse box as the control for the relay, then switch power there at the fuse box). You could do all this without cutting old wires...Or be like me, and just promise not to drive the car at night

Lee,

PM sent. 

Larry

Here are two more photos of the Mangusta lock & lock parts, fwiw!  The first illustrates the shorter length compared to the Pantera trunk lock....5 "pins" instead of 6 and a bit more compact design in general.  The other big difference is that the Mangusta unit uses a double sided key (i.e., the key has no 'right side up').  I bought an extra Pushbutton Pantera lock years ago and if it what it's advertised to be, it's very similar to the Mangusta lock.

The second pic shows the Mangusta/PB Pantera type pins - compare to the non-PB Pantera pins in Larry's photo.  After scavenging a number of old Alfa locks, there appear to be two variants of these 'double sided' pins, a long spring version and a much less common short spring version (as noted).  The 'X' in the photo shows what determines the 'size' of the pin.  My guess is that there were at least 6 sizes of pins used in these locks, giving (theoretically) a large range of possible key codes.

Great information, Nate!!

 Appears that very little of my Pantera lock knowledge carries over to Mangusta  locks, and very few parts will interchange.

 The stamped steel pins used in Pantera locks are very uncommon; my first re-keyed set was done by a locksmith who said he could not have done the job without my spare pins. FYI, the Pantera locks (door and trunk) contain six pins but there are only three different pin versions.  

And Lee,  looks like my knowledge set is of no value to assist you with your Mangusta locks. Sorry😕 

Larry 

Hmm, so now I am thinking that (unless anybody knows of a locksmith that has these pins), to use my key and have a functional lock I actually don't need all those pesky pins in place . Better yet if I can find that say, this is a match for a Fiat 600 trunk or something(!). 

 Nate and Larry, thanks a million, again ! Lee

Hi Lee, PM sent - I doubt if there would be any way to 'feel' the difference if you skipped a pin or two. (My re-keyed glove box latch is down one pin b/c I ran out of the needed size and didn't want to do any more scavenging.  It works great, but admittedly will be bit easier for next burglar to pick! 

Speaking or Fiats - they was actually  my source of pins, not Alfas as I noted above.  They MIGHT have been from 125, 126, 127 & 128 model parts (not positive) but I believe all of these used the single-sided (Pantera type) keys too, so it really depends.  IIRC the 124 Spider series had only 'single-sided' door keys, all years.

As many of you know Larry fixed my ROYALY stuck Pantera trunk lock some time back.  Now it works perfectly. To my mind this earned him the right to work on all future lock headaches that may pop up on #3507  

Re-edited due to aging brain cells.......!!!

Lee,

Hit up your local FIAT enthusiast....if there is such a thing......!

You might try working backwards from the key blank......"What does it fit?" Sort of thing and then....cruise the Fiat web boards for lock assemblies or even pins......

You can also probably try reaching out to Roland in Germany for bits and pieces like this!   The push button design was used in the FIAT 850 SPYDER models from what I can tell from limited looking.  I wish I would have grabbed every one of those locks that I walked past.......along with 68 Mopar side marker lamps.......!!!!!  Shoulda woulda coulda.....!  

There are lock sets offered up for sale, by Bayless and Mr Fiat, but these morons fail to list what years..... Pictures show a rectangular shaped lock assembly....NOTHING like what you see on pictures of 65-72 850 Spyders (Spiders)!!!!!   Perhaps they expect you to cut the crap out of your car to fit them......

What I also noticed is that MANY of these cars seemed to use a double sided key blank.....on 124 models of many years, and also the 850 sedans. Whether the lock pins are the same.....can't answer that at this time. You would need to verify the key # for fitment.

OK, much better than my start on this reply!

Good luck!!!!

Oh, at least its getting easier to understand which are Not right...In reversible keys, the FT32/34 are easily distinguishable from FT33/35 in that the profile is reverse (Ft35 is groove on left).  So the Fiat 850/Miura keys/locks) are FT32/34. Finding which use Ft33/35 seems harder, strangely I see Fiat 1100 locks that have it either way (!), and all the engine cover locks I see are groove on right (Ft32/34).

 SAFE key markings also designate the series, so anything marked 2xxx is an FT35 (as Nate pointed out a long time ago).  Somewhere, someone has a reference that relates the pin sequence...

https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...962#1598208440521962

Hi Gents, one more photo comparing the Mangusta lock to OEM Fiat 850 (for 1967 at least). I was thinking the newly available repro locks might be useful for our case but doubt it now.

Re. pins I think Steve is on to the ultimate solution...there must be locksmiths out there with piles of leftover pins from Italian cars from the 60s.  Regardless of the core diameter, the pins must have been essentially generic....nothing special, just need the right variant.  Fortunately, the same pin sets are used, regardless of the keyway series (2xxx, 4xxx, 8xxx etc) - the pins don't care.  Once again, Fiat fanatics are our friends!

Nate, yeah, back to plan A---look for a locksmith! It looks like Alfa is probably more on the Ft33/35 key side of things, see this group of (4 different!) keys in a Giulia 105 keyset...with our friendly 12.7mm stubby there (and only 3 of the pins populated---who wanted to track any more combinations for a trunk key!?). 

Just a followup, amazing how the slightest education make things more clear Especially, just the name for "wafer locks," the "pins" are called wafers or "panes" and used for basically all Automotive locks.  I'm sure that in the little mom and pop hardware stores in Italy are a thousand wafer kits sitting in the dust, I've spent some time w/o success trying to find locksmith supplies specifically for 60's Italian cars...Pictures of English parts (MG/Jag) might just work and a couple kits are on Ebay, specifically for "2000 series" keys.  But FerrariChat named Tony Euganeo <Daskeyman@verizon.net> who says no problem, he has the parts. Darn, the fun may be gone if I don't Have to try myself (!) 

 Here are a few more pictures,  https://www.alfabb.com/threads...d-544161&slide=3