Mangusta on Chasing Classic Cars- Find the Errors!

I will have to watch.  Wayne has become a defacto "expert" with all cars and people actually believe him.  He makes his money selling overly priced cars to guys with too much money, restoring cars with guys with too much money, and getting paid to do a TV show.  I guess it's good work if you can find it.  You have to admit the show is at least entertaining to know he spews BS now and again.  I find the barn finds at least entertaining.

I thought that the show was pretty well done. At least Carrini isn't a clown like some of the characters on these automotive reality shows. Of course at the end of the day, Carrini is still a car salesman and he is going to make a profit one way or the other.

 

..Haven't seen the episode, have noticed that F40 has had Mangustas over the years. The in-dash AC vents started with 8ma1100, by this time the half-globe Carello marker lights were replaced with the flat tops for sure. The Spider and and first real car (guessed as 8ma502 on Provamo), used the Lancia Fulvia elliptical side markers but 508 shows the round half-globe Carellos as used on early 850 Fiats.  Silver suspension and a yellow tire jack, just kind of the typical embellishments added in the garage that anybody restoring a car today should be quick to correct...To us, glaring stuff--no Pebble Beach type of research or 3000 restoration hours needed to get right... 

The number of colors on the Mangusta paint wheel had something like 4 or 5 variations of Red alone...The Mort Sahl interview (Road Test 1969) quotes 23 colors ("no duplications and no choice") at least in the early US imports. Good news, there isn't a bad color for these cars. 

At the 2016 concorso Italiano, the judges were grouping to review the huge group of Miuras and I overheard one judge ask 'what's our objective here anyway, the cars here are so perfect...'  Mass production Corvettes obsess about the location of the paint drips on brackets, my brother's Auburn boattail has the correct "W" head bolts and meticulously preserved weld marks on the fenders.  Carrini may be an expert with Model A's or Packards, but specific knowledge about every marque would be superhuman... What is "correct" in the 401 cars included what, 5 different dashes? And he would be right if he suggested that originality has largely not been a priority for most DeTomaso owners. Just a few years ago, we weren't even sure which way the carburetor should face Lee 

 

WHAT??  There IS a correct way for the carb to face???? 

Happy Easter to all.

Steve

Just watched it and you got most of the glaring items...  I did notice that the speedo was in KPH not MPH, so that might account for the clear marker lenses, the dash was not mouse fur, they used aftermarket cooling fans up front, deleted the round window crank access covers from the door panels...  heat shielding under the coil was more modern...  the diamond pattern in the covering under the frunk hood was off...  voltage regulator was newer model...   switches on dash definitely didn't have labels...    what was the twisty knob between the A/C vent and instruments on the dash?  Oh...  is that for the A/C?   Sorry, mine has the underdash unit...  fan shroud on the A/C condenser is different from mine, but mine is earlier... 

overall, from my moderate to limited knowledge of such details, the finished product looked gorgeous...  perhaps I missed a lot of little things, but I enjoyed the episode and thought the car turned out better than expected.

MH

 

…voltage regulator was different---but you weren’t really looking closely 😊 Steve mentioned and he’s right, the leather on the dash is wrong (should be full natural top grain, a smooth split hide just ain’t right…). And is that headliner (and are the sunvisors) black? And is that the right interior mirror? And are the toggle switches slanted the wrong way (the before picture had them pointed to the passenger, after picture is pointed to the driver...).   Ah, by season 15, at least Wayne has given the DEEtomaso a little respect  

Any guesses on the chassis number? Starting at 8ma1100 (AC in dash) and before the German builds (with parking brake on the floor) leaves a pretty short list of candidates, maybe only 25 cars, and maybe over half those 2 headlight models?   Lee

OK, you guys are good!   I missed the (very obvious) Euro gauges...so that explains the clear turn signal lens!  It was way too early in the morning for me to go back and re-watch the episode, but I did save it on the DVR for now. I was counting on more feedback...

As mentioned, most of these things are nits...that can be corrected if one wanted to take this over the top for concours.......not like the body was all cut up with a giant air scoop sticking out of the rear of the roof and hatches with big giant flares on the wheel arches!     There are a few of those already.......don't need more!

That owner is one tall guy......the ebrake handle on the shin looks painful!!!

OK, Lee pointed out the parking brake change pre-German builds...which this does not have.     What I noticed were the rear shock tower braces added, from the shock tower to the engine compartment wall.   Also, the boxed supports/stiffeners on the bottoms of the lower front a-arms. 

EDIT after corrected on # of German cars being 52 not 75...     These changes are a couple of things that started sometime after my car *878 and the manufacturing location change (last 52 cars?)   So roughly 190th (my car) + 52 (German cars)= 242 -401(total build-ish)= 159 ish cars built from around April-May 69 (My car known window and brake dates)  to end of Italian production is where this car lies!    When the extra rear supports were added could tighten that window up even more..... I thought it was in the #1000-1100 area.....

What we probably can't tell is if these were the 3rd or 4th variety of lower a-arm that had the boxed lower a-arm supports AND the relocated lower shock bolts to accept Koni shocks ala Pantera (it did appear to have Koni shocks!) .........(to clear the lower bushing of the shock and uses a larger bolt hole)    I am not sure if this was a German thing......... But I do have a new set of these lower arms which could easily have been left over from the last production........       My car had been in an accident early on, and had one original lower arm (under reinforced!) and one boxed  reinforcement version......

Here's my rundown on lower a-arms:

#1) Has strip of flat steel welded on edge to lower arm for reinforcement, but doesn't extend across ball joint cup to reinforce that area (ball joints were busting off end of a-arm!)

#1A) This is a guess..... That the flat steel reinforcement was extended out over the ball joint cup to prevent breakage.......but I have not found any of these yet......

#2) Has boxed reinforcement (actually a "u" shaped piece)  added full length of arm out across bottom of u-joint cup.  Standard shock mount.

#3) Same as #2 but with larger shock mounts to clear bigger lower shock bushing and relocated/larger diameter hole for shock bolt.

So I need to go back and watch this episode again.....just for grins and "Goose envy" factor.......!   It was nice to see a Goose "outed" finally without all the regurgitated "bad" reports about an otherwise beautiful beast!!!

Cheers!

 

 

You got me on the regulator...  I didn't see the green tape and cried foul too soon...

A shot of the original documents shown 8 mins into the video.

Rotated 180 and zoomed in:           (red line is by me)

Looks like 8MA-1190 to me

At 8:23 he says it's car #361...    so...   361 x 2 = 722       722 + 500 = 1222

1222 is not in the registry...   but 361 could've been something completely irrelevant  I've only seen references to the digits of the VIN on the insides of door panels and such with mine...

I'm gonna go with 8MA-1190 since that appears to be what's on the paper.

Here's the Headliner and Visors:

On the dash, I was referring to the top of the dash, not the face of it...  shouldn't the top be of mouse fur?  This is clearly NOT mouse fur:

Here is the Frunk underside:

The best shot I could find of the rearview mirror:

Also noticed the horn nubbin is black instead of chrome and the rubber is missing from the gas pedal:

Perhaps the (Spare Tire?) dimple in the Frunk could help narrow down it's # if it's NOT 1190:

That's all I got...

MH

 

 

M!ke, I was just kidding---you always are so humble but you have a sharp eye...! Yeah, that's the Bosch regulator---but not on top of the Bitumen in the engine bay (and well, I replaced the panels with rubber, its not exactly right either...). I haven't seen the episode (not available in Taiwan!). The car does look great, always fun to see a Goose come together. And voila, 8MA1190 ist wahrscheinlich  scheinbar gut---I tried looking at Provamo to see when floor mounted E-brake was introduced, appears to be in 1224 I'm curious if anybody knows for sure when the first German car was made.  Also, would be interesting to know what differences were made in small components in the German cars. Denis mentioned before that the door locks were set by the handle, for example...The mirror here is different than that ARCA used on earlier cars....The AC compressor is a Tecumseh (can tell by the tag) but the ports are on the sides? Lee

die Deutschen autos sind natürlich besser...

(but I might be a bit biased towards German cars)

MH

I got screen shot of this sheet on one of Silvestro's auctions.   Loosely translated (courtesy of Google)  it says: '' We hereby declare that the car DE TOMASO MANGUSTA is homologated for the transport of 2 people (driver included) as shown in test report n232 / to-68 issued by the Ministry of Transport and Civil Aviation of Turin.''

My assumption would then be that it may have been the 361th car built / the attached sheet would say 232th road tested.

 

As to the compressor it should be a Tecumseh HG500, it appears to be correct, but it should be painted black and the hoses are not in the correct location. Also note the panel where the regulator (green or yellow tape sealed) should be black with undercoat and there are asbestos heat shields (not seen) low where the headers run close to the gas tank. Plus note the rear body triangulation bars should be black not chrome.

 

ON the TV car, there was an extra little bracket attached to the top of the alt adjuster......  I couldn't place what it was for except perhaps an attempt at hose management or so...........

I found an EARLY pic(s) of my car as found back in '95 (sounds so weird to type that...!) after I had just dragged it home(!) and it clearly shows the same side provision for connections.   I had forgotten about this!

I had forgotten about this picture as well!   See if you can spot all the problems that I had to resolve....no wait.....that's not relevant to this post..... enjoy!

One thing.... Alternator adjuster is only one I have seen like it (I know it is custom made).....with alt in RH most location on bellhousing.....and wiring is too short to put it in center "proper" location....and it still has original connectors on it......   ??????    I don't actually know if it was a "smog pump" car or not.....

My mileage varied!

Ciao!

Denis, oh, so interesting: so was 1190 the first German car (and not necessarily This Car)?   The peculiar date, is that really January 22 1980??  What I am guessing is that 8ma1190 was then the first built in Germany, and that there was some kind of formal recognition of the new manufacturing location....That the letter that M!ke captured and expanded was a generic letter, not specific to this one car...the date in that one (I suppose is the last handwritten line) I cannot make sense of either...

(And M!ke, I remember when I finally got my '79 4re 308 on the road, and quit driving the '79 928 P-car...the Porsche was fabulous, technically a hundred years better than the Ferrari...but oh, the sound of webers and a flat crank...!. Nicht besser, nur anders...!)

 

Steve, I have to say that I enjoyed this episode, and CCC is one of the cars shows I generally enjoy!  Reading this thread is as entertaining as the show was!  You all are soo smart!   In the end I think this Mangusta is a beautiful example of a stunningly beautiful design.  

Just curious for all you experts, there was a lot of discussion about color and comments that there may not have been a stock "pallete" of Mangusta colors. Is that what you all understand as well?

Stay safe everyone!

Dennis

Dennis,

Thanks for the compliment to the gang!   I think the biggest boner statement in an otherwise great display of one of our marque, was that it was "hard to find information"........... Wayne stepped on his weenie here.....!!!     I was gonna say something else, but it could have been construed as "political in nature".......

There was/is a couple of versions of GOose color charts.....from the factory advertisement with one of each color on each page (need to go back and look at it to back up my words here....) or at least "most" of the colors that we see most often, to a full scale color swatch collection of many more options. I think this latter piece came out late in the game......if memory serves me....     It is interesting to see what was available......

BUT, IMHO, I would venture that most were painted by the factory for the dealerships.....not necessarily direct customers......from the original stories I have heard, most saw the car in the dealership first.....and bought it.  Again, just my opinion.....

DeTomaso would also paint to fit a customer.....if the beans were there! Perhaps this happened more in Europe where the dealers were closer to the factory.....

As I also stated, Wayne went on to blather about black and maroon being very popular colors......which I find contrary to what we know is out there!!!

Ciao! Stay safe yourself! Hope to be able to see youse guys soon!
Steve

 

(Goose paint colors) I'd guess that Ghia kept the same palette of colours for Ghibli and Mangusta...here are almost 7 that could be considered "red". I'm sure the question now, just how did British Motor Cars take orders?! 

Maybe about 10 years ago, my brother went to see a Goose for sale in Houston, River Oaks area that he described as "eggplant" color. If I remember correctly, it was owned by Carlos Slim (or at least, at his house). He thought it was a terrible color in person...But '1302 still looks great--Lee

ps. interesting snapshot of what people bought in the 60's, vs. the cars we remember...dominant colors were by far blue and silver ! From the Ferrari 330 registry. 

Ok, caught it on Youtube...definitely my favorite CCC ever...so much fun, esp. decisions about the paint color rang home (I decided on Rosso Corsa -6 as well...the original Rosso Fuoco is too orange...Rosso Corsa used on 308's a little blue, the Rosso Corsa 300-12 used on F40's a big orange, so Rosso Corsa 300-6 was just right)... But the line here when the customer is surprised with something he didn't ask for "What have you done with my car?!" was hilarious. Yeah, Doug Pray suggested going with single coat paint instead of color/clear on my car, but at least he was right about it for the era of the car.  Dick R. has talked about how Red is the right color for this car---and looking at the picture of Dennis' car next to a Miura, I think he is right...even if the Drummer's lifetime dream was really the blue/red combination on Steve's car. 

 Polished wheels, yellow zinc plating, but then the big laugh: The carb is reversed  The choke is on the wrong side.! Peculiar ignition switch, wrong windshield washer jets,  solenoid not a Lucas 4ST...missing the fake-chrome edging, heater valves nowhere to be seen, missing the change cup on the console, odd weatherstripping around the rear, and a battery that isn't nearly as beautiful as Dennis'...

But oh, a working clock, one of the rarest things in a Mangusta! The talk about doing so much research and how the car is as the factory made it...Well, that's about as accurate as the final attribution;  The 1969 Detamaso wins the Chairman award and the J. Geils award at the Boston cup. And yeah, that's the spelling used here: https://thebostoncup.com/winners/ . And clearly the wrong year...

But though it would have been fun (in this world of the internet) to give advice and watch the car come together, no question--what a gorgeous car. And more than any other CCC episode I remember, you can see the pride in the guys who put it together. Candy-O, I need you so....! Lee

(...too much time on my hands, Taiwan is not 'locked down' like the rest of the world and the weather is great...) But tried to make sense of the "German transition" and whatever meaning 8ma1190 had. At least,  an ebay discussion with the guy selling the 'uncanny valley' Ferrero Mangusta steering wheel (and hopefully on this forum), mentioning that he'd worked with DeTomaso for many years...and that the Mangusta was basically made from the parts that could be found--makes the last ~50 cars so interesting. At least 2 key pieces---ignition on the column and the umbrella vs. floor mounted brake--seem to be all over the place in no linear order (1236, 1242, 1256, 1264 all with umbrella brakes, but 1224 a column-mounted key, "defroster" dash and no umbrella brake visible). And even weirder, 2 piece seats at least on 1242 and 1256.  

I'd like to think the CCC car is 8ma1222 based on the "361st" comment, but the only thing that's clear is how much variety there was at end of production...Lee

 

  

  

 

 

You guys are a tough group! My notes say the Germans finished the last 52 cars, so working backwards from the last reported car (8MA1302 in New Zealand), the first German Mangusta would have been 8Ma 1136 so the TV car definitely would have been in that group.

Question: which bellhousing was earliest, the two-mount (alt & AC on opposite sides) or the single mount with both on the right?

   Oh, everyone knows that answer... (just trying to be tough...all weekend long I've been humming Cars tunes). I had to look it up to make sure, but the parts manual lists/numbers all the 289 pieces before the 302---the engine, the bell housing, the jack shaft housing, even the air cleaner for the 289 is numbered first.  I assume that that the smogged version of the j-code engine was at least a requirement in California and that Detomaso served all the US with (only) smog pumped motors--would be curious if the non-thermactor version of the heads was ordered for ROW that didn't the smog pumps. 

  I had to count on my fingers, but #361 would be 8ma1222...If at least, they counted the pusher car...! So maybe they mean 8ma1220, which is also Not on Provama ('1224 is known).

 The homologation reference to 8ma1190 is what I think is interesting---Bossman, where did you get the data that 52 cars were built in Germany? At least, the snip that M!ke got from the show and the Silvestro document that Denis found both referencing 8ma1190 would suggest a landmark somehow...Even though there are so many cars found on Provamo, we're still missing a few critical links.

  And oh, we aren't trying to be hard, I'm sure its not because we're even picky-- its just that watching a naked Mangusta get built back to something beautiful is so much fun we hate to be left out...! For Wayne's comments about so much research and getting it right by the factory, oh, I suppose compared to most "ground up" DeTomaso restorations, he is right.  Its not like guys in the 60's with Ferrari had much of a chance to put on new valve covers, another intake, or rotate their carb....How many of us didn't dream of a Hall body kit on a Pantera and updated suspension, or at least vents in the hood, lathered in chrome---remember all the doo-dad's in the Hall catalog? But if they had come looking for this group, we could have at least saved them the trouble on the linkage for the backwards carb... I'm still just dying to drop a line on his facebook and tell him where to get stickers for the toggle switches..! Lee

OK students.....pay attention to those of you who didn't listen in math class...! The numbers previously posted don't add up!

1302 is last known car, minus 104 (= 2 x 52 "German" cars produced) = 1198 would be the first German car serial number.    This mysterious 1190 number is close.... so maybe a new homologation doc was needed  for the German production????    I have an original homologation report that Claudia gave me when I visited the factory but I cannot say if it was a first run or second run sort of doc.   It shows nasty dirty 289 parts (Webers) like they were just removed and photos taken...I think it also shows the 10" rear rims for racing... but I'll need to dig it out and find any reference to numbers...... it's been a while since I looked at it!   Others may have this doc also.....

Comment about engines:   DeTomaso used whatever he could get from Ford. Keep in mind there were some labor issues at the Cleveland plant which resulted in 289's being installed in 69 Mustangs due to production hiccups....

While only a handful of cars (maybe first 20-25 cars) got the 289HIPO engine, the rest were conventional 302's.  BUT, there are instances of our cars getting "baby poop yellow" industrial engines as well, as DeTomaso took whatever he could get..... be it from the US, or stocks in Europe.     The regular production 302's also varied in that some were air injection (smog pumps) versions for manual trans cars in 68, where in 69-70 the smog provision was dropped (except for Boss 302 429 and 428CJ) and manual trans and auto trans engines used the same heads.

The engines were also likely shipped in batches to coincide with production needs.   Many have surmised that engines were pulled from the Ford lines to supply DeTomaso......highly unlikely!  IF Ford was having problems getting engines of their own make (302's) why would they short their production lines to support some tiny car maker in Europe????

(I have never seen any examples of a 289 engine being put in any cars past the first 20-25 cars.........   Claims of.....but no physical documented evidence.  Just like Wayne's blathering about this CCC car having a 289.....false!   Prove me wrong, it's only an opinion at this time! )

DeTomaso either had to "order" engines from the parts division in the batches, or he had to take what was available.  Like the industrial engines!

One example of a part which was possibly altered to support these "water pump" engines was the cast iron water pump pulley!   The center hole in this pulley (I found on MY CAR!)  is larger than the shaft size on most water pumps you can get today!  An industrial pump had a larger shaft stub sticking out of it!   SO when this pulley is used on a regular pump, you would have needed a spacer to keep the pulley aligned!

I found one of these spacers in an old water pump box that I had found somewhere....and when assembling the new 331 engine, I dug up this spacer and used it!     I had always wondered why that center hole was larger than the water pump shaft stub.......

I REALLY wish that the gang would have put a set of stock valve covers with proper emblems on the car......just so wrong putting chrome covers on it when new emblems are available!

Mike commented about a rubber pad on the accelerator pedal??????  Never seen it!   Even on the 6K mile original car in PA that I witnessed back in 97 98.   Anyone else?????

He also mentioned the end of the turn signal stalk being black: This is a Lucas part borrowed from MG's of the day. Black could be a production variant OR, they forgot to send it out to the chrome shop (likely needed after sitting for so long!) so the shop just painted it black....... "who's gonna notice?!"

Did all the later cars, German included, get the junk tray?   I've seen console posts here that have slightly different designs......with no tray....

Great discussion!!!!!!
Ciao!
Steve

I thought the same thing, they didn’t search tooo terribly hard for info in that car. 

i did think it came out quite nice though. Wish I had been at the boston cup to see it

Steve, ditto on no-rubber on the gas pedal. And yes, the Cars' car had the right turn signal switch, but yes had painted over the end cap on the horn switch: The difference between the MGB (Lucas 35874) and the Maserati/Goose (35874A) was the round end plastic vs. squared off horn knob. Repros for the metal end cap are available, but they won't work on a Goose. The long tapered cone on the Maserati/Goose horn button is something I haven't found on any other car...lord knows I've looked!

  Records on the engine supply are in the hands of Vito now...His last words were that some engines were bought from Iso Rivolta. Looking forward someday to his book...I am much more interested in the storyline of the Goose than I am the particulars of my own car! Since the day I was looking for key build info and wanted to know where the engine fans came from, only to see it in Italian script specified as "white and yellow.."   https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...for-phillippe?page=2  

  The PMI repro valve cover emblems are pretty darn good, so good that even real takeoffs from Mangustas sit unpurchased on Ebay....Repro valve covers are cheap too, already painted, no dents, of course without the throttle spring tab. So unfortunate, now the car has a Ford engine, not one of those rare DeTomaso engines .

I am curious if the heater valves (the Alfa Giulia valves on left/right of the engine bay) were not installed on later cars...? Hard to see them in Denis' car there as well...Lee 

Drivers' side view from 1046 attached; 

 

 

First from what I have read DeTomaso may have not built the cars in order. Pushing a body aside waiting for a part or a customer payment.  Second the German were euro or RHD cars had some unique features like the roof antenna , the side e-brake. The two arm bel housings were for the US smog cars.  Motors from the days I was at FoMoCo would have been ordered by thru a Canadian assembly plant handled by Parts Département  Shipped from Windsor plant to the customer. As Steve has posted pics higher some of the valve covers were silver for some strange reason. Also the water pump pulley was not a Ford part it is a billet piece and you note has sharp edges. Roland has said they would get 5-6 cars at a time and many cars were incomplete when received. 

Also Lee my car does not have or appear to ever have had heater valves. Another note the late model heater as in Wayne’s car has a lever by the driver’s knee. It should be black plastic not chromed. 

Lee, that info mentioning 52 cars routed to a German shop came from a Euro magazine article sent to me by Roland Jaeckel many years ago. I used it in a POCA newsletter article at the time. The deal was to finish off all the remaining partially- completed Mangustas in Modena and Allessandro would then gift the shop with the German DeTomaso franchise. The shop (owned by Armin Fischer in Stuttgart) took the cars in batches of 5-10 at a time and completed, then sold them. A reproduced sales ad was included. DeTomaso SpA was very, very busy starting up Pantera production for Europe & fighting with Ford-Europe and ZF at the time.

The article mentioned the shop used brand new Mercedes e-brake handles, prompting threats from M-B Spare Parts officials when they found out. More notes mention the last batch of 6 cars- #1292 to #1302- were all built as right-hand-steer cars for England, Australia, N. Zealand and Japan. No info on others but there surely were a few right-handers done earlier in Italy.

Guys, this is so interesting...and yeah, I think no better source than Jaeckel! So I'm curious, after the transfer to Germany, are we certain that all the production in Modena stopped?  Just theorizing that 8ma1190 was the first made in Germany and later used as the homologation sample, while a few were still were getting finished still in Modena.

 Geez, the thought of moving all the pieces (or worse, some of the pieces!) to complete in another country is really spectacular...Bossman, do you remember which POCA (or, what the original Euro magazine source) were? Lee 

Lee, the article was in the POCA Newsletter for Feb of 2010, titled "The Mangusta and the German Connection". It took me quite a while to find it because, although all but 2 issues of every Newsletter ever written (Sept '73 to May 2020) are now reproduced on the POCA Website, there is no index (yet) for the more than 750 tech articles. They are all in pdf file format and downloads are free if you're a POCA member.

In re-reading the article for the 1st time in over 10 years, I note that there were 55 Mangustas, not 52- that were reworked in Germany! So much for depending on one's memory for obscure details...

Oh, what a perfect fit! So 8ma1190 was the last built in Modena, another 55 cars in Germany, and 8ma1196 (Bordinat) somewhere else....brilliant !

And those 55 cars were built and sold in 3 months--incredible...heroic or crazy, must have been both...Thanks Jack ! Lee

ps. and thanks, Denis, I saw that silver bat thereby the parking brake and just dismissed it, wouldn't have guessed that was the heater valve...and not like there is a cowl flap. 

 

 

@mkeh posted:

You got me on the regulator...  I didn't see the green tape and cried foul too soon...

A shot of the original documents shown 8 mins into the video.

Rotated 180 and zoomed in:           (red line is by me)

Looks like 8MA-1190 to me

At 8:23 he says it's car #361...    so...   361 x 2 = 722       722 + 500 = 1222

1222 is not in the registry...   but 361 could've been something completely irrelevant  I've only seen references to the digits of the VIN on the insides of door panels and such with mine...

I'm gonna go with 8MA-1190 since that appears to be what's on the paper.

Here's the Headliner and Visors:

On the dash, I was referring to the top of the dash, not the face of it...  shouldn't the top be of mouse fur?  This is clearly NOT mouse fur:

Here is the Frunk underside:

The best shot I could find of the rearview mirror:

Also noticed the horn nubbin is black instead of chrome and the rubber is missing from the gas pedal:

Perhaps the (Spare Tire?) dimple in the Frunk could help narrow down it's # if it's NOT 1190:

That's all I got...

MH

Hello mkeh
In your pictures I noticed that there is no frame in your sky. Here is a picture, a sky frame on the roof. I'm looking for the part, that's why I noticed it.
Greetings Mungolino

Mungolino, you are correct, one of the modifications to this car was the headliner (same as the sunvisors). The headliner should be leather, light cream color ('matching' the sunvisors) and smooth texture. Some cars did seem to have pleats. The leather is glued to the roof with a thin padding.

The interior trim frame that covers the seam between the leather headliner and the roof sheet metal is made of aluminum and covered in leather.

  -Leather is applied across all the interior A pillars, and 360' along the windshield , side windows, and rear glass bow.

- the aluminum frame is also covered in leather. See detail of the back of the joint.

Interior leather used except for the headliner and dash top is natural texture, top grain without any artificial tooling (not "pebbled"). As I remember, the headliner is a smoother texture.  Sunvisors are "basket weave" vinyl.

  Sorry I didn't measure the frame (maybe someone else has their frame available to measure the frame)--Lee

I'm amazed at the low rate of survival for original Mangusta headliners and related trim pieces - - maybe shriveled when subjected to US summer heat??!  The only oem headliner bit on my car was the trim frame, here are a few photos with dimensions noted.  All four sides are bowed to fit the roof structure.  The front section (which has a generous bow) was welded-in slightly 'twisted' so that the finished frame bulges to the front in the middle.  Hopefully pics are better than words here.

Strange thing about 1010's frame was that the leather was definitely tan but spray-dyed black.  Both leather & workmanship sure LOOK original.  I had thought frames were 'normally' black from the factory.  So either that's not true OR ....spray dye might have been a quick 'problem solver' at carrozzeria Ghia?

Lee, glad you mentioned leather being used for the surrounding roof area trim. 1010 was covered in vinyl by the time I took ownership...wasn't sure that was incorrect until I saw your comments and I tried to think about things logically

Nate, I'll have to admit, when I gave my 2 cents on this and typed "maybe someone else could measure their frame"  I was thinking especially about you Someday someone is going to make a library with your notes and make a car...Lee

Wow.....if ever there was a time when I wish I had taken more pictures.....!!!  For some reason.....my headliner frame was in beautiful condition.   While maroon red, I don't believe it was the original red......4th owner says that he had it resprayed to more of a maroon tint, that the red was TOO red........  Headliner was heading for the floor....... the material parting from any foam backing that was on it originally......

I thought that the headliner was originally a perforated material similar to what Panteras use......    I couldn't find it at the time, so went with a more modern synthetic material....padded....

It's replacement was one of the first things that I did to my car when I was trying to get it on the road.  My neighbor was an upholsterer of car interiors and had some maroon material that I used.  Tricky getting two glue laden surfaces to fit together properly the first time......cuz the second time isn't usually happening!!

I bought a pair of visors at the factory, and I believe them to be Fiat/Alfa parts..... the hinge pieces are definitely the same pieces.......    The Goose used an odd shape that was symmetrical L-R.   I think mine were white-ish vinyl with same color plastic hinges. Pantera visors are the same, but since they came later, ya can't call them Pantera parts when sourcing them!

I can't say that I've seen this visor in the normal Fiats/Alfas found in the junkyards......that perhaps they came from an odd sedan or such...... The fact that they do not have the typical offset for the rear view mirror, and are fixed (no side pivot), seems to say something........ boring?

Would need to run one of them down to a local Italian car wrecker and see what they can tell us!

Sorry to bend this discussion to visors.......

It is sad that these fairly fragile interior pieces seem to come up in such poor condition after being set aside for decades......!!!  Always bag your parts carefully before storing for decades........

How about those teeny tiny Phillips screws used to hold that trim in place????!!!

Cheers!

...I can think of 3 things that I haven't matched to other cars--the dash defroster vents, the rear view mirror, and the sunvisors (!) "closest" I've seen to the sunvisors are Lancia Fulvia, but the length is a bit shorter between the ears and the vinyl 'basketweave' texture also seems unique. The basketweave vinyl may be the same used on Alfa Giulia (both sunvisors and headliner).

A pic of 8ma1074, oh the benefit of being stuck in a dry cool garage in Emeryville CA for 35 years...my 8ma1076 shows why most headliners fall--the foam just lets go as it turns to dust... But you can just see the basketweave on the sunvisor, and of course the crazy natural texture of the leather on the A pillars...Lee

Link to F40 Motorsport :   1969 De Tomaso Mangusta - F40 Motorsports in Portland, CT - 1036900

…it looks terrible, still no stickers on the switches 😉 . Funny, Denis you may remember someone else who guessed it could come up for sale soon. But wanna bet that it is really not The 8ma1190? 😊 Lee

OK, I'll bite? Why two 1190's? There's a spare one?

Did anyone else notice what appears to be an oil filter mounted up ahead of the water tank?  I cannot imagine the mess that an oil change would create!!!  (with all that is down lower in that area......headers, heat shields, suspension parts, chassis works.......)

Way back up at the top, mkeh questioned the lack of a rubber cover on the accelerator pedal.....I can't say I've ever seen such a thing......anyone else?

And the end of the blinker switch is black.... I would guess that the button rusted and this was a quick fix....... I don't think they were chromed, but rather polished and treated somehow to look shiny?

Cheers!

Steve, my comment on 1190 is that the number has showed up in random other documentation (see Dennis' post), and so I think represents a reference point (yeah, I know, this is one of the cars on the grassy knoll...). You can google 8ma1190 to see other documentation that references that exact number--car--and (with the last 55 build in Germany), the math just may work out. This is why I guess that 1190 marked the legal transition from Italy to Germany...somehow. And wonder if the number here is pulled off 'documentation' or the chassis. Would be really cool to finger what may have been a pivotal car in the sequence. Would love to hear from someone who can look at the chassis.

I also noticed that the solenoid is a proper Lucas 4ST now...so maybe someone read our scathing compliments. I can't make out what is there to the front of the FIMM tank...But now I look at a new picture, hmm, those don't look like Copper rivets on the engine covers....    (and am I stretching my memory on this one, but I thought DeTomaso did use copper when bonding steel and aluminum together....to avoid galvanic corrosion...even if they  look better unpainted here)...

  Oh, are we an ornery bunch... Lee