Matching numbers debate

Dave,

I�ve never had anyone in the de Tomaso world make much of a deal out of matching numbers. There are only a few areas on the Pantera that have serial numbers to match, e.g. headlight buckets, driver door jam, dash, pedal box and the engine number. I think what modifications have been done to the car will have a significant impact. There are all the standard modifications, cooling, suspension, brakes and engine that are desirable if done well. Things like sun roofs, poorly done body modifications are big negatives. Conversions to G4 and GT5 and GT5S are probably OK if done well. It�s hard to undo some of the bad and ugly things that some people do to Panteras.

Mike


[This message has been edited by Mike Dailey (edited 08-11-2003).]

Matching numbers has never made a differance to me.What has mattered to me is the condition and history of the car(such as an accident).

I never even gave that a thought when I bought my Pantera. I did not want a stock Pantera, but rather an upgraded on, like Mike Dailey's, or a number of Panteras in NM where a lot of the guys are running Windsors, with various inductions systems, and various levels of mods, like strokers. I'd buy a Pantera with a MoPar Hemi, but not a Chevy motor. And I'd pay up for those mods. To me a bone stock Pantera with 100 miles represents a lot of upgrading to do, cooling, electrical, ditto: Mike Dailey's comments. If I swapped out for a Windsor, I'd really have to question whether it was worth it to keep the original engine for 'numbers matching' purposes, in the vent I ever sold, who'd pay up for the hassle of storage? I'd never buy a "Barn Yard Find" Pantera with matching numbers. Only to part it out if I got it for $2,500.00.

In most of Pantera-world, the first thing you'll get asked is, how does it run or how fast does it go, and the second is, what did you do about overheating? Since 1980, I have NEVER been asked if my numbers match. IMHO, this is a sure sign of a Chevy aficianado, who will probably have great trouble adapting behind the wheel of a Pantera, since I've found that mid-engined cars (Pantera, Lotus etc) are extremely fast-reacting to steering inputs while Corvettes & Camaros are notoriously slow.

AMEN, Jack. I bet the first question you have also been asked repeatedly since '80 is "is that a Lamborghini" or "is that a Ferrari" and then, the 2nd question is usually "how fast does it go?" and then when you told them, they probably said, "yeah, but when are you ever gonna be able to go that fast?" and when you told them about the Nevada Silver State runs or the Track Sessions, I'm sure their jaws just dropped and the next question was "tell me more"

On an aside, ever notice how you can add 40 MPH to the yellow/orange diamond signs on the side of the highway telling you the "safe speed" for the corner and the arrow telling you which way to turn. Ever notice how you can safely add 40 MPH to those "safe recommended speeds" and not even slide a tire? Try that in a Camaro or Corvette, and the back end of those cars will "step out" when doing the same speeds in the same corners.

Now, when you try adding 45 MPH or 50 MPH to the Yellow Diamond "safe speed" for the curve, the Pantera or Lotus will slip the tires, all 4 tires, evenly, at about 2" and 6" from the line of travel by the end of the curve. The Camaro or Corvette? Not while I'm buckled in and behind the wheel. Unless there are tire barriers at a race track! You just kissedthe concrete barrier or went off the road in those Chevy's at those speeds on the same corners.

We are not "numbers matching kinda folks" are we? :-))

Numbers?? Numbers??
WE DONT NEED NO STEENKIG NUMBERS!!!!!!

Personnaly I like my cars to be orginal. To modify puts you in a different bracket than the orginals. The beauty of of america is that you can have it anyway you want it. I would consider modifying my pushbutton only if I could easly put it back to stock. It currently has the numbers matching. Minor engine mods are ok, but major body mods are a no go for me.

Actually, the NEXT question is, "whats it cost?", and when you tell them 'about the same as a new 120-horsepower Miata, thats when their jaws drop....

quote:

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Originally posted by jack deryke:
Actually, the NEXT question is, "whats it cost?", and when you tell them 'about the same as a new 120-horsepower Miata, thats when their jaws drop....

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Yep, that's the next question alright. They'll keep asking questions all day long if we let them, but they never ask if the numbers match, do they?

When I went shopping for a Pantera I already had an original #�s vette. I applied the same #�s matching philosophy to my Pantera purchase. I soon learned the numbers thing is far different in the Pantera world. For Pantera owners it�s more about changing the car to get the maximum out of it, the #�s are more like 200MPH! I regret putting an emphasis on matching #�s.

Dump 15K into a Pantera and it�s usually worth 15K more, spend the same making a vette faster & more comfortable and you�ve just lost 15K.

A vette is a step up from a camaro, but a Pantera is in another world! All my vette buddies drool at the chance to get behind the wheel of my P car.