Detom - These engines are worth anywhere from 12 -25k depending on the condition. My car is worth 30k its a standard Pantera but I just bought it. So havent been able to sink my paws into it yet. I'm at a stand still with this Cleveland. To many tricks to get the to run high horse power and he blocks are weak. I'm thinking Windsor crate motor maybe just rebuild the cleveland as a stroker ??? Gotta get my act together. Maybe sell the 427sohc and really got tom town..........?
I didn't mean to put down the car at all, I am just saying these are ultra rare engines. I have a friend who knows one of the guys who was on that program at Ford. I will check with him to see what it is worth.
Yeah I know the standard Cleveland is kinda weak, right above the mains area, but I am sure that blocks like Dart and that australian place have got that all worked out. And they come in aluminum alloy too which means you can shave another 200 pounds off your car.
I know the 427 side oiler was a real strong motor because it was made to be a racer. You can get one of those in alloy too and it would weigh less than a cast iron small block. But then again that is real old school. Maybe one of those new modular motors?? Micheal was saying they are a ton of maoney if you want to get the one for the Ford GT, but the 302 modular crate is about 14K for 400 horse. I am sure it is pleanty strong.
Have you considered a super high winding rice motor?? Like that Honda that redlines at 9500 RPM?? Or how about a Honda v8 like they use in champ cars. Ford use to make a little tiny V10 that developed 750 horses at 16,000 RPM. I always wanted to get me one of those. Souynds like a buzz saw gone bezerk. It would scare the hell out of inocent bystanders and small children. Muwahahaha.
But getting back to reality, unless you are entering the 24 hours of LeMans, I am sure the Cleveland will be plenty strong. George knows how to build them to where they never ever break. He has built and help build hundreds and not a single one has ever broke. That is a convincing record if there ever was one.
Yeah I know the standard Cleveland is kinda weak, right above the mains area, but I am sure that blocks like Dart and that australian place have got that all worked out. And they come in aluminum alloy too which means you can shave another 200 pounds off your car.
I know the 427 side oiler was a real strong motor because it was made to be a racer. You can get one of those in alloy too and it would weigh less than a cast iron small block. But then again that is real old school. Maybe one of those new modular motors?? Micheal was saying they are a ton of maoney if you want to get the one for the Ford GT, but the 302 modular crate is about 14K for 400 horse. I am sure it is pleanty strong.
Have you considered a super high winding rice motor?? Like that Honda that redlines at 9500 RPM?? Or how about a Honda v8 like they use in champ cars. Ford use to make a little tiny V10 that developed 750 horses at 16,000 RPM. I always wanted to get me one of those. Souynds like a buzz saw gone bezerk. It would scare the hell out of inocent bystanders and small children. Muwahahaha.
But getting back to reality, unless you are entering the 24 hours of LeMans, I am sure the Cleveland will be plenty strong. George knows how to build them to where they never ever break. He has built and help build hundreds and not a single one has ever broke. That is a convincing record if there ever was one.
No insult taken, George has given me mucho advice ! Thanks George, just all that I read has scared me a little. A good build is probabaly in the range of 10k when the smoke clears, I raced CJ's they reved to 7000 and made a lotta power and torque. I'm gonna stay with the Ford motors but that V10 sounded tempting.... LOL
quote:George knows how to build them to where they never ever break. He has built and help build hundreds and not a single one has ever broke.
LOL.....................
HUNDREDS!?
NEVER EVER BREAK!?
EEKS!
DeTom is that how legends are made? oh hell, I'm in trouble now.
I'll let you in on a little secret, back in the '70s & '80s, most Cleveland builds were in the 350 to 450 bhp range. Some guys were busting engines even at 450 bhp, but I believe that could have been avoided with proper assembly. The advent of cheap stroker kits & roller cams have made it easy to get a Cleveland into the >500 bhp trouble zone. That's the reality. You can go there with a Cleveland, but the engine needs to be assembled carefully, smartly, with no cutting corners. A Clevor built upon a Dart or FRPP block would be good insurance for your motor investment.
the legendary engine builder on the DTBB, Smokey Pence
By the way Ron, I'd give my eye teeth AND a couple of other precious things to acquire a cammer motor. What a find. I would truly love to drop one in a '64 two door Galaxy fast back. drop 'er on the chassis, cut out the wheel well sheet metal NASCAR style, side pipes, a 4 speed top loader.
Its like a Deuce coupe with a flat head, it just belongs.
You see, as a kid, there was an older guy who had one just like that. He bought a used Galaxy and dropped in a Cammer he had bought from Ford for about $2500 (about 2/3 the price of a new car back then). His cammer engine could totally overwhelm the Galaxy's chassis, he stripped teeth off his 9" ring gear & busted carriers, twisted axles, smoked clutches, he could get rubber in any gear at any speed at will. He even twisted his leaf springs into an "s" shape. (afterwards he invested in a good set of traction bars). he bought the least expensive tires he could find because they didn't last very long. He had a fiberglass bubble on his hood, hiding the engine. Jaws would drop when he opened 'er up and there sat this big, menacing SOHC 427. The one engine that trumps every other muscle car engine ever made. Imagine pulling up alongside a 'Vette with a 427 under the hood in a Galaxy and leaving him at the light like his engine stalled! The cammer with a single 4 barrel had 200 more bhp than a 427 'Vette! That's 50% more bhp than the 'Vette which sported over 400 bhp itself.
This fellow would drive by my street in his other car (Mustang) and pick me up, saying "hey George, hop in and come take a look at my car, tell me what I've broken now". LOL... I think he was actually showing off, you know, he was proud his motor could break parts so easily. He never complained about buying parts to fix his car.
The '60s were crazy times.
Wasn't this post originally about installing a mod motor in a Pantera. Oh well. Hey Mark! Me Bad!
reminiscing on the DTBB, George
Its like a Deuce coupe with a flat head, it just belongs.
You see, as a kid, there was an older guy who had one just like that. He bought a used Galaxy and dropped in a Cammer he had bought from Ford for about $2500 (about 2/3 the price of a new car back then). His cammer engine could totally overwhelm the Galaxy's chassis, he stripped teeth off his 9" ring gear & busted carriers, twisted axles, smoked clutches, he could get rubber in any gear at any speed at will. He even twisted his leaf springs into an "s" shape. (afterwards he invested in a good set of traction bars). he bought the least expensive tires he could find because they didn't last very long. He had a fiberglass bubble on his hood, hiding the engine. Jaws would drop when he opened 'er up and there sat this big, menacing SOHC 427. The one engine that trumps every other muscle car engine ever made. Imagine pulling up alongside a 'Vette with a 427 under the hood in a Galaxy and leaving him at the light like his engine stalled! The cammer with a single 4 barrel had 200 more bhp than a 427 'Vette! That's 50% more bhp than the 'Vette which sported over 400 bhp itself.
This fellow would drive by my street in his other car (Mustang) and pick me up, saying "hey George, hop in and come take a look at my car, tell me what I've broken now". LOL... I think he was actually showing off, you know, he was proud his motor could break parts so easily. He never complained about buying parts to fix his car.
The '60s were crazy times.
Wasn't this post originally about installing a mod motor in a Pantera. Oh well. Hey Mark! Me Bad!
reminiscing on the DTBB, George
Exactly George I'm leaning towards a Windsor Block assembly with Cleveland heads. Clevor ? I love those Boss 302's. A real high reving motor, I bought one when I waas 21 and it had a fully grooved crank with Trans am pistons had to run it on Cam 2 114. Any way I have to mention MODULAR to make it official ! LOL I guess we need to start a new thread "CLEVOR " I would like to elaborate on that thought ! GEORGE ! Hint Hint Hint
quote:the legendary engine builder on the DTBB, Smokey Pence
I knew you reminded me of someone. It was the fact your profile pic doesn't have your customary three sided hat. BUt Smokey was a chevy guy wasn't he? You are more like Carrol Shelby.
quote:Originally posted by accobra:
Exactly George I'm leaning towards a Windsor Block assembly with Cleveland heads. Clevor ? I love those Boss 302's. A real high reving motor, I bought one when I waas 21 and it had a fully grooved crank with Trans am pistons had to run it on Cam 2 114. Any way I have to mention MODULAR to make it official ! LOL I guess we need to start a new thread "CLEVOR " I would like to elaborate on that thought ! GEORGE ! Hint Hint Hint
Ron, I just got off the phone with my friend and he is definetly interested in buying the SOHC from you. He will need more info and if it is ok with you I would like to put you two in touch with each other. If you are interested could you please emaile me at Detomaso72@yahoo.com ??
Detom - Its tucked away in the corner of the barn and I want to hold on to it until I decide what to do with it.
Ron
Ron
OK, Ron. When I told him about it he sounded real excited. They are real rare. But I am not gonna presure you though. I hate pushy people. Pestering me all of the time. But if you change your mind or if you are just curious about stuff, let me know cause this guy knows folks who actually worked on the Ford development program, so he has access to mucho info.
quote:Originally posted by accobra:
Detom - Its tucked away in the corner of the barn and I want to hold on to it until I decide what to do with it.
Ron
How many of these engines were actually made?
I'm not sure since this was an engine I never expected to find and I have a spare short block in cosmoline looks brand new. I have to say that the two came together and I have not done anything with either, but I suspect some thing ? When I first bought it I did some research but not much out there on this engine.
Sounds like a great find. Best of luck with it.
It is a great find Josh. Pristine examples of the cammer go for $30K these days.
I've never read any total sales numbers for the cammer, they only sold over the counter, but they sold lots of them. They are far more plentiful than a Boss 429. In the Seventies, prices had already started to escalate, but I would hear of a cammer motor for sale still in the crate frequently, by the eighties asking prices were in the area of $10K.
your friend on the PIBB, George
I've never read any total sales numbers for the cammer, they only sold over the counter, but they sold lots of them. They are far more plentiful than a Boss 429. In the Seventies, prices had already started to escalate, but I would hear of a cammer motor for sale still in the crate frequently, by the eighties asking prices were in the area of $10K.
your friend on the PIBB, George
Attachments
Images (1)
Great pictures, George! Truly an awesome motor!
Michael
Michael
George,
That thing is huge!!!
The engine that is...
Thanks for posting.
Josh
That thing is huge!!!
The engine that is...
Thanks for posting.
Josh
George have you rebuilt one of these motors ? Is that your motor ?
Ron,
those were just some pictures I pulled off the 'net. It's not my motor, but boy do I wish it were!!!!
I have worked on one just like that (single 4 barrel carb), long ago in a galaxy far, far away. Literally in a Galaxy!!! Get it? It was in a '64 Ford Galaxy. LOL....
Didn't rebuild it, just maintenance. The motor was new! I was a teenager putting green in my pocket by turning wrenches. Straight forward motor, with some very long timing chains.
your friend on the DTBB, George
those were just some pictures I pulled off the 'net. It's not my motor, but boy do I wish it were!!!!
I have worked on one just like that (single 4 barrel carb), long ago in a galaxy far, far away. Literally in a Galaxy!!! Get it? It was in a '64 Ford Galaxy. LOL....
Didn't rebuild it, just maintenance. The motor was new! I was a teenager putting green in my pocket by turning wrenches. Straight forward motor, with some very long timing chains.
your friend on the DTBB, George
Yea, I have played with a couple Boss 302 (clevors ) and a buch of FE's but that Cammer is huge and look complicated. I took off the valve covers and there is a lot of engraved clearances and numbers etched into the valve train components. It going to take some real time to take this apart and go over this motor.
wow mark super sexy shrimp boat!