new brakes

quote:

i just bought those stock rotors with veins

Do you mean the vented rotors that DeTomaso used on the Euro GTS cars? They have been unobtainium for some time now.

There are vented rotors that are a direct replacement as found on the 65-67 Mustang - is that what you bought?

I ask because if you bought larger than stock diameter rotors, you have complicated your replacement caliper project.

There is nothing wrong with the stock calipers for a stock, normally street driven car. They can be cheaply rebuilt, or exchanged for rebuilt units from at least one of our vendors.

Upgrading to the R4S compound brake pads from Porterfield will provide amazing and quite adequate braking performance.

If you go to the vendors for aftermarket calipers, be sure to take your VISA.

Rebuilding the calipers with vendor-supplied kits, Porterfield pads and your new (stock sized??) rotors will give a very good system.

Larry

I second that motion. If you're looking for bling, go ahead and bring your Visa but if you're looking for better performance, there are some cheap updates that are well known on this the board that work great. Try the Porterfield pads, replace the rubber hose going to the calipers with the braided stuff, put in DOT 4 fluid, pull the guts out of your proportioning valve, replace the master cylinder with the 1" plunger with the 1-1/8" from PI and really the most important is put on sticky rubber. You will not need anything more than that and it's cheap.

Quick question...is anything wrong with DOT 5 fluid???
Jeff

That's a good question. If I remember right, and I rarely do these days, I think it was a compatibility issue. I might have had to flush the system because 5 was silicone or imcompatible with the 3 but there 4 would cause no problmes. I think the 5 might have had issues with absorbing moisture also. Some one here with chirp up with a correction if I'm wrong. I just bled my system and realized that the new fluid I added was synthetic and the old was not. I guess I should have read the jug better.

The drawback of DOT 5 is compressibility, it gives a more spongy pedal, not what sports car & race car drivers like. The advantage is it does not absorb water like esther based brake fluids, and it has very good high temp characteristics. BUT you cannot mix silicone based DOT 5 with the other esther brake fluids (DOT3, DOT 4 & DOT 5.1).

The absence of water absorbtion in DOT 5 fluid is a blessing and a curse. Any water that gets into a system containing DOT 5 will form steam pockets when the temperatures rise, and steam is very compressible.

DOT 4 has better high temp characteristics than DOT 3, but its performance falls off more rapidly than DOT 3 as it absorbs water, therefore systems with DOT 4 fluid MUST be flushed more often than systems with DOT 3 fluid.

DOT 5.1 is an esther based fluid that meets the DOT 5 spec for brake fluid. It is basically a modified DOT 4 fluid, so the same precautions about more frequent flushing applies. It is also much more expensive than DOT 4 fluid.

You can mix esther based fluids, DOT 3, DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 with no severe safety issues, the only drawback is the high temp properties of the fluid will vary based on the cocktail proportions.

In my opinion, a responsible auto parts supplier should not stock DOT 5 on their shelves, due to the compatibility issues with the esther based fluids.

Castrol LMA is good stuff, it has a fairly high boil point. Some racing clubs swear by Valvoline synthetic brake fluid as a low cost high performance alternative. Race suppliers like Pegasus sell brake fluids with very high boil points (higher than the DOT 5 spec).

cowboy from hell

quote:

Originally posted by oatsey:
...does anyone know where i could get new performance calipers for my 71 pantera...

Hi P,

Both PI Motorsports and Pantera Parts Connection offer inexpensive caliper upgrades for the Pantera brakes.

cowboy from hell

quote:

Originally posted by Cowboy from Hell:

The absence of water absorbtion in DOT 5 fluid is a blessing and a curse. Any water that gets into a system containing DOT 5 will form steam pockets when the temperatures rise, and steam is very compressible.

Racers sought DOT 5 because of it's high boiling point but soon found that since it cannot absorb water that it took very very little water to cause total brake failure. Racers who cautiously use DOT5 today change their fluid before every event and some events even require it. A drop or two of water in DOT5 will migrate to the lowest point which is your caliper and ruin your hole day. Non-silicoln brake fluid can absorb a couple oz of water before it becomes a problem so suddenly the advantage of absorbing water appears.

DOT 5 has become the choice for car collectors who rarely use their car and never get their brakes hot enough to boil water.

larry, i bought the vented rotors for the mustang from BCC (I think that was the co.) and now want to upgrade my calipers. there are several different reasons. 1. I have rebuilt these calipers and have had pros also do it but with the same results. they work for a while then the start to lock up. i dont drive the car as much as i should but to rebuild these heavy, outdated calipers every year is no fun. and it feels like they pick the most incovenant time to start locking up. I want to buy a good set of calipers and/or brackets to put a set of wilwood or whatever on it. 2. I dont want to spend money on stock rebuilt calipers (thats what I already got)when I could spend a little more and get a liter, easy rebuildable, and more reliable caliper from this century. i am so glade that you took the time to give me your imput, and I hope you see what I would like to do. I talked to someone last year that sells brackets to all the vendors and he said that if you have the right bracket then you can install other calipers on stock rotors. So what I was wondering was, has anyone done this either thru a vendor or on there own. If so please let me know where you got your stuff.

Cowboy, thanks for your imput. do you have part numbers for those calipers? I looked on their web sites and did not see anything. thanks in advance. Oatsey

The Wilwoods System with 12" rotors and 4 piston calipers is the best bang for the buck .. I think the vendors are in the high 3k range. There are better Systems ... but probably not needed unless your going to exceed 200 mph with 700 hp in a Pantera.

Ron

Thanks Ron, I have a new master and braided lines from hall pantera. and i just got those rotors. now I want new calipers to go with all this stuff. I hope that someone out there will know what I need. thanks to all, you guys are what makes ownership sweet. P.J.

quote:

Originally posted by oatsey:
...do you have part numbers for those calipers...

Sorry, I do not. Give Jerry (PI Motorsports) or Larry (Pantera Parts Connection) a telephone call and ask about the replacement calipers for stock rotors.

cowboy from hell

quote:

Originally posted by Oatsey:
...I talked to someone last year that sells brackets to all the vendors and he said that if you have the right bracket then you can install other calipers on stock rotors. So what I was wondering was, has anyone done this either thru a vendor or on there own. If so please let me know where you got your stuff.

Larry (PPC, Reno) uses/races and sells the Sierra Calipers and bracketry and has an exclusive deal for Pantera's with Sierra. The Sierra's out perform Wilwoods to my mind.

You take a chance trying to match brackets, spacers and calipers etc. yourself, far better to get a package from a vendor who has experience and can stand behind what he sells. You will also find that due to volume discount, Larry actually sells the Sierra calipers at a discount to the Sierra list price.

Brackets, shims & bolts are all that make up any combination of rotors and calipers that will fit any vehicle.... LOL ,..along with the know how of what combination works .. that Research and Developement is what you purchase from the vendors. If you dont have a drill press and a mill along with calipers and micrometers and an eye for detail .. your best bet is to quit while your a head and give in and BUY a system that has been tried and tested by a Pantera Vendor.

Ron

Hey thanks alot you guys. I understand that its best to go thru a vendor and will do that. but when I called Gary Hall all he had was stock calipers and I dont want those. with a little luck I can get new calipers for my pantera and eliminate a some problems. I will call a Jerry and Larry today if I get home in time. most of the time im working till late and they are closed when i try to call. Thanks Oatsey

Oatsey,

You can get Larry pretty much 24/7 on his cell; 1-800 DETOMASO

Thanks Julian, I had a long conversation with Larry and he was great, he told me stories and we just shot the breeze. He does have what I need and will place an order soon. but he also enticed me with lots of other parts and now I need to make some choices on what I want to do. I will let you guys know about how its going. thanks much Oatsey...

Oatsey, I have a set of wilwood 4-piston calipers that were taken off my car because I replaced them with 6-piston wilwood calipers. They worked great and there was nothing wrong with them, I just decided to upgrade. They had been machined so that they would fit larger rotors, but will fit your rotors also. You can let me know if that might be something you might be interested in.

Rapid,

I would be interested, E-mail me on the personal forum.

Rapid I would be very interested in your calipers, just e-mail me at p.oates@juno.com and let me know about them. thanks Oatsey

hey guys, i'm set with my brakes and was wanting to get new castle nuts for my spindles and wanted to see if you guys know where to get them. i think they are 18 x 1.5 metric and one is lefthand thread. thanks p. j.

I would strongly suggest that you have your rotors mounted on hats that are mounted on the outside of the flanges. Then you do not have to take things apart to have the serviced (machined or replaced).
Mark

I think any of the vendors carry the castle nuts.