http://www.zf.com/corporate/en...l_transmission.shtml
13.5k pricetag though I'm told, isn't that pretty close to a Ricardos in cost?
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That's the seven speed manual transaxle that comes standard in the latest Porsche 911.
I'm surprised it's only $13,500. I would have thought it would be much more expensive than that.
I'm surprised it's only $13,500. I would have thought it would be much more expensive than that.
I think RBT gets that for the 6 speed don't they?
quote:Originally posted by Hustler:
13.5k pricetag though I'm told, isn't that pretty close to a Ricardos in cost?
Sounds like a great price, my modified G50 was more than that. As for the Ricardo, I'm told they are shooting up in price as apparently there are very few spares and it is no longer being supported.
Julian
There is a riccardo for sale in France for only € 7.000,00.
But main question; can you bold this ZF 7 speed gearbox on a Pantera ?
But main question; can you bold this ZF 7 speed gearbox on a Pantera ?
no idea, guessing a bellhousing would have to be custom milled or cast considering input shaft length and then a custom clutch, then hopefully the axles line up 
in other words still more money even after you got it. Some people are saying it can be turned upside down though, so seems like you have some options. You are definitely going to be into more custom pieces than an equivalent Ricardo assuming you can find one according to what people are saying.
in other words still more money even after you got it. Some people are saying it can be turned upside down though, so seems like you have some options. You are definitely going to be into more custom pieces than an equivalent Ricardo assuming you can find one according to what people are saying.
There's been a new Ricardo on eBay for nearly a month now. The Buy-it-Now price is $16,995.
When people use Porsche transaxles in GT40 replicas, etc., it usually requires installing a limited slip unit, different gear ratios and/or a taller ring & pinion, and so on. Rather than use a custom bellhousing, I believe a machined adapter plate will usually work. You would need a custom flywheel and clutch. Many kit car builders buy their transaxles from GBox, who are well known for preparing Porsche transaxles for use in V8 powered kit cars.
I'm sure Julian can offer more insight into such things than I can.
When people use Porsche transaxles in GT40 replicas, etc., it usually requires installing a limited slip unit, different gear ratios and/or a taller ring & pinion, and so on. Rather than use a custom bellhousing, I believe a machined adapter plate will usually work. You would need a custom flywheel and clutch. Many kit car builders buy their transaxles from GBox, who are well known for preparing Porsche transaxles for use in V8 powered kit cars.
I'm sure Julian can offer more insight into such things than I can.
quote:Originally posted by Hustler:
13.5k pricetag though I'm told, isn't that pretty close to a Ricardos in cost?
Hi Hustler, where did you get the information on the price?
Supposedly Eric @ Gbox is publishing this price. Factory Five has the GTM which also has a mid engine layout utilizing a transaxle
http://www.ffcars.com/forums/4...speed-transaxle.html
http://www.ffcars.com/forums/4...speed-transaxle.html
Some or most of this has been discussed before. Before y'all get too excited, measure the donor transaxle to see if it will physically fit between the Pantera's rear subframe rails. For instance, the 6-speed Riccardo is 3" too wide to fit, requiring massive changes to the frame and rear suspension mount points; then one gets to play with geometry changes to restore decent handling. Rigging a shifter that works as well as our stocker may be a challenge for other trannys, too.
That's why the RBT 6-speed ZF @ $12-15K (that bolts straight in) is usually a better deal unless you own a fabrication shop. And IMHO, short of pro-road-racing for money or trying for 30+ mpg at cruise, 5 speeds are plenty with a decently powerful 351-C. There's always the regeared ZF ring & pinion for the still-unsatisfied.
That's why the RBT 6-speed ZF @ $12-15K (that bolts straight in) is usually a better deal unless you own a fabrication shop. And IMHO, short of pro-road-racing for money or trying for 30+ mpg at cruise, 5 speeds are plenty with a decently powerful 351-C. There's always the regeared ZF ring & pinion for the still-unsatisfied.
The RBT 6 requires some mods too(albeit more minimal than Roicardo) as it's longer than a std 5 speed. Also the 6th ratio is the same as tall 5th ratios available so all you are really getting with a 6 speed is shorter ratios between shifts.
Julian
Julian
The RBT 6 is going to give you a 3.2something first gear. 6th would be about the same as the 5 speed.
So what it is more or less doing, is making the car pull as if it has the 5.00 ring and pinion in the car instead of the 4.22.
Essentially it would make a Pantera with a "built" enigine pull like Halls "Root Beer" GTS car, which Mike Cook drove into the 9 second 1/4 mile times, front wheels off the ground and all at launch.
Who knows what you will break with that type of launch capabilities and where the body will crack, but I'm sure it will somewhere, big time?
If you look at the original ratios in the Pantera, the 2.20/4.22 makes the car pull in first gear like a Mustang with a Ford T&L and a 3.89 rear would but gives you the top gear cruising of a 3.00:1 rear,and true close ratio gears in between.
Even today that's pretty sophisticated.
People who complain would be better off with driving an automatic transmission in a non performance vehicle.
Noticing what most Pantera owners are looking for is top end cruising. When I called RBT about rear ratios (looking for the 5.38) he presumed I wanted to go lower then the 4.22, not higher?
For about 98% of Pantera owners, the existing 5 speed is fine, even for track or racing use.
Only two applications I can think of that would justify even the RBT 6 speed, maybe, would be running at the 24 hours of Lemans or Daytonna at over 200 mph or drag racing in some sort of vintage match racing?
The RBT 6 speed isn't a perfect animal either. The three extra inches on it put it into the a/c condenser in the rear of the car and the shifting are somewhat of a unknown as well with the strange Pantera rod shifter mechanism?
I decided long ago that for me the stock 5 speed is much more than adequate. Perfection doesn't exist. The wheel is already round.
I even put Webers on the car to kill some of the power the 351 is capable of so it won't hurt the ZF?
So what it is more or less doing, is making the car pull as if it has the 5.00 ring and pinion in the car instead of the 4.22.
Essentially it would make a Pantera with a "built" enigine pull like Halls "Root Beer" GTS car, which Mike Cook drove into the 9 second 1/4 mile times, front wheels off the ground and all at launch.
Who knows what you will break with that type of launch capabilities and where the body will crack, but I'm sure it will somewhere, big time?
If you look at the original ratios in the Pantera, the 2.20/4.22 makes the car pull in first gear like a Mustang with a Ford T&L and a 3.89 rear would but gives you the top gear cruising of a 3.00:1 rear,and true close ratio gears in between.
Even today that's pretty sophisticated.
People who complain would be better off with driving an automatic transmission in a non performance vehicle.
Noticing what most Pantera owners are looking for is top end cruising. When I called RBT about rear ratios (looking for the 5.38) he presumed I wanted to go lower then the 4.22, not higher?
For about 98% of Pantera owners, the existing 5 speed is fine, even for track or racing use.
Only two applications I can think of that would justify even the RBT 6 speed, maybe, would be running at the 24 hours of Lemans or Daytonna at over 200 mph or drag racing in some sort of vintage match racing?
The RBT 6 speed isn't a perfect animal either. The three extra inches on it put it into the a/c condenser in the rear of the car and the shifting are somewhat of a unknown as well with the strange Pantera rod shifter mechanism?
I decided long ago that for me the stock 5 speed is much more than adequate. Perfection doesn't exist. The wheel is already round.
I even put Webers on the car to kill some of the power the 351 is capable of so it won't hurt the ZF?
quite right... 5 is more than enough , sure for street use. I'm going as fast as possible to 5 , even ommitting some gears , and drive it in 5 as a automatic , torque enough 