Newer clutch slave

Pantera Performance in Colo sells hydraulic throwouts. Don't know if this is Dennis' or not.

I have the unit sold/installed by Dennis.

DO NOT DO THIS CONVERSION.

And this is also the advice Dennis will now tell you, too.

Why? Because while it works fine most of the time, it is the 'most of the time' issue that means you should stay away.

To do any adjustment, or replace any parts - and these are things that clutches require - you must remove the ZF.

And to remove the ZF, you need to undo/remove a whole lot of other stuff. MAJOR PITA.

Then why did Dennis use them??!! Because in the days before the long through slave, this was a good work-around for that problem. But as there is no off-the-shelf unit for the ZF input shaft cover it requires some fabricated conversion pieces, and I had problems with that adaptation method (fixed and no longer an issue). Sadly THAT problem did not come up until several months after I had pulled everything to replace the dried-out quad-ring seals that had fluid dripping off the bottom of the bellhousing.

So in the span of about four months, I got to do two R&R sessions with the ZF.

Buy a good clutch package, buy a nice SS long-throw slave, rebuild your stock master and enjoy life.

Larry

Send me a Private Topic message if you want the complete, tear-inducing details.

See the female threads on the dark piece? See the male threads on the aluminum adapter piece? This is how the clutch clearances are set. The other aluminum piece - notched for the three bolts holding the input shaft tube in place - comprises the adaptation done by Dennis.

See the o-rings inside the male-threaded piece? These are in theory designed to keep that piece locked in place on the input shaft tube. Theory is a great thing, when it works.

Mine managed to slowly rotate and lost proper clearances. Three 4/40 allen head set screws, in three drilled and tapped holes, have proven to be sufficient at actually holding it in place without rotation.

Do you really need/want this much trauma?

That unit looks a little different from Dennis' early model that used internal aluminum jam-nuts to set clearances and no external spring. I agree with Larry- these can be tricky to set up correctly- and the clearances MUST be set such that when things heat up and expand, you still have enough internal clearance. NOT having enough clearance means the piston bottoms and spins with the throwout- and the quad-ring seal is not designed to soak up rotating motion- only in-and-out at very low speeds from the pedal. So within 50 miles, you'll have a leak. I built my system around a Tilton dirt-track racing assembly. Tilton uses a threaded tranny nosepiece and the slave threads up/down it, with a locking screw to set clearance. Needless to say, the ZF was not one of those systems offered by Tilton. The 3rd design Tilton came up with (in 1993) is still in our Pantera but I've had all 3 and the things out & apart 4 times getting it right. Then- being an optimist, I made one for a second Pantera and another for our '82 Z-28 with a Muncie 4-speed for autocrossing. The benefits are, once you do get it right, it works better than any stock monkey-motion system, is much more friction-free with a very light pedal (OEM clutch) and the longest throw possible, and is nearly 7 lbs lighter than stock. But they are expensive and I wouldn't recommend one for any Pantera owner without major overhaul capabilities in their home garage. And in spite of 20+ years of good service from my 'mk 3' adaption and for the second Pantera assembly, I still carry a complete spare Tilton with us on long trips.... You won't find parts along the highway for these!

Interesting,
Seems like it's the length and anti rotation are the 2 issue's, these are being used in most modern cars and very reliable,
Maybe a new visit on the use of these needs to be looked at?

Mark

quote:

Maybe a new visit on the use of these needs to be looked at?

Be my guest.

OEM systems benefit from mucho R&D and total uniformity of components.

Not even close to that in Pantera Land.

As Jack and I both wrote, we now have systems that are proving reliable and are working well.

I did not say you couldn't do this conversion, or that it was a bad thing to do.

But because of what is involved, getting it right may involve a lot more trial and error than you, in hindsight, might find reasonable.

Larry

Thanks for the help,
I have found that Mcleod Industries has a set up, but I'll have to build the adapter, easy money.
I'm going to stop by tommorrow to have a look, They are in Placentia Ca.

Mark

Just reading this. Been in St Louis all day.

I have a McLeod for a GM V/6-T5 in a MGB. Easy to set up if you follow the directions. Mine and others I know have been trouble free. Better then they used to be. Important to match correct size master so not to over extend it. Over extending it or bad adjustments can mean having to take it back apart.

The benefit is ease of install and setup. The cons are the consequences of getting it wrong and having to get back to it but then again, the Pantera is one of the easiest cars to get the trans out.

Maybe Brooke will chime in on his alternate exterior slave mount.

By the way, I bleed these the same way I do my brakes; vacuum pump and tank. Takes about 5 min for the whole job:

MCLEOD Hydralic Slave; 1405-22,1402-22 $ 448.39 + Spacer 1428 $49.82.
.100 TO .300 for clearance, maybe .050 wear, Master Cylinder should be ¾ “ x 1” stroke = ½ “ movement @ slave, DOT 3 oil.Slides onto tube and held in place by compressed o'rings, this is enough to keep it from rotating.
Talked to Bernie