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Oil Coolers

C comp2Member
Midnight will be 7days without electricity so I got to write about something.

The air to oil coolers have gotten a bad rap by rookies because they were poorly done; thus people have concluded they don't work when it was done with poor application.

The cooler that was on my car was common to many panteras and was in the wheel well with a vent. Unfortunately the air even with the vent was stagnant and did not do anything.

I have done oil coolers on other cars and even small oil coolers with good airflow made huge differences.

Fundamentally I don't like and did not want the water/radiator oil cooler nor did I want long oil lines to the front of the car. I simply don't like the fundamentals of long lines, and heat robbed from the radiator.

Not to mention the chance of mixing water and oil!

I wanted an air cooled oil cooler and I want it to work. Since I am making so many changes to the car it was not hard to do it in a more ideal way.

First I wanted cooler on left side of car. My cooler before was on the right side and I don't want oil lines ran under the car. So, I built a gas tank for the right side. This gave me room to do what I wanted.

Second I wanted to duct the air out of the left vent. Since it is not an elephant scoop and since I wanted it to work in "traffic" the cooler has a big fan which pulls the air through the duct.

And there is a duct to surround it all.





Sorry I don't have a photo of the oil cooler mounted in the duct.

Cooling the oil is not the only thing that keeps temp down. What I learned from guys running lots of power was that the transaxle will last with high HP on a track IF>>>>>>>>>
1. Fluid is cooled
2. Fluid is changed

I already removed the air conditioner (I don't run A/C in any of my cars anyway even in summer). Trans cooler added:


Original Post

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pittcrewpittcrewOwner etc. of 3785
What are you going to use for a pump in the trans cooler system?
Where are you going to hook the in /out lines to on the trans?

On the engine are you using a adapter on the oil filter boss on the engine to route oil to the cooler and a external filter?

You can't make a post like this and leave out so much information! Big Grin
C comp2Member
I will use the oil filter adapter for the oil cooler. Since the oil comes out of the left side of the engine this will be pretty convenient.

I have not pinned down the connection for the trans cooler yet but I do have a Tilton Pump to pump it.

My car is highly Dependant on electricity so I also am using a 200amp alternator which I had built. Besides the normal stuff and several cooling fans the pump for the power steering is also electric. When I started adding it all up I had a pretty high demand for electricity.

I have a friend who runs an audio shop and they special order Powermaster alternators and they even dyno them before shipment.
C comp2Member
It's a fundamental choice. I want to keep the engine free of as much add on as I can.

I may set up a second engine a little more aggressive with the ability to quickly change them out. If I find another way to drive the alternator I would have no pulleys/belts on the engine.

I also like the idea of another electric pump for the oil separate of the oil system itself.
larrywlarrywMember
Jeff,

That inline water pump is a neat idea. Great way to lose the hump. The ability to cool down the motor after shutdown sounds good too. A bunch more wires and relays.

Julian,

I didn't see Meziere listing an inline pump.

Generally, does anyone know how you would plumb the Cleveland and it's warm up circuit?

Is 55 GPM on par with what a conventional engine mounted pump moves at the RPM's you'd see on the track?

I imagine at some RPM conventional pumps must start to lose efficiency and actually move less water than at their optimum operating speed.

Imagining a full 55 gallon drums worth of water moving through your motor every minute sure seems like enough.

I guess if it wasn't you could put a pump in each radiator line in a push-pull fashion. Getting expensive now though.
joulesjoules"Racing is Life, anything before or after is just waiting" - Steve McQueen
quote:
I didn't see Meziere listing an inline pump.


Larry,

Meziere have a section of 'remote' (i.e. non block mount) electric water pumps or are you looking specifically for an inline flow through design?

Generally the high flow mechanical pumps are rated around 35 gpm I believe, but I'm not sure at what rotational speed (i.e. rpm) that 35 gpm rating is? An electric unit putting out out 55 gpm, should aid in cooling at both speed and at idle as it's independent of engine rpm.

For a remote application on a std block you should be able to take an old std mechanical water pump and remove the impeller (or if you have a Ford Motorsport one it's probably fallen off anyway Wink ) and seal over the bearing end to form a flow through cavity.

I guess in theory you could also leave the std unit in place and use a remote electrical pump as a booster?

Julian
bosswrenchbosswrenchMember
FWIW, Ford lists a 55 gallon flow-rate belt-driven pump for their current OHC Cobras so I'd guess that's a MINIMUM flow. I've held a plastic-cased Meziere in-line pump in my hands; be prepared to pay around $350....heavy little beast, and you may have to call Meziere as most requesters are only window-shopping, so web or catalogue updates are low priority. THe pump might even be experimental.... IMHO, there's cheaper, less complicated ways to alter the size of a cockpit hump than an electric water pump. But one thing that would be interesting is to use a Meziere in-line or their radiator tank-mount unit as an aux-pump along with a stock belt-driven pump. These would be used for low engine speeds where the Pantera needs more water flow. Above 2000 rpms, a belt driven pump works just fine. The one Pantera I've seen with a Mezier engine-mounted pump had to alter some brackets etc under the hump to make it all fit. He made it to 'Vegas from L.A in '07 with a lightly modified engine, with water temps around 200-220F or about the same as stock. Dunno what would've happened if the engine was putting out more power- which equals more heat.
panteraturbopanteraturboMember
Wiring up the electric motor to a temp sender/relay would be easy. I would imagine if done this way would allow you to remove the thermostat thus reducing restriction a bit more. I almost went to an electric engine mounted pump but had difficulties driving my accessories and scrapped the idea. The inline ones would be a neat project though. As for oil coolers, I have an air/air cooler mounted in front of my drivers side rear tire (no fuel tank there on my car). It is a fairly large modine unit with two 7" sucker fans mounted on it. The core is about 2" thick. It WORKS and works well. In traffic such as the border crossing I can turn the fans on and watch the temps drop considerably. If done right an air/air cooler will work just fine in a Pantera. Its all about airflow.

Blaine

Blaine
accobraaccobraMember
I would think that mounting the in line pump up front near the radiator would be the best location. Thus saving space for the bulk head.

A consideration would be in line pumps are made to push not pull ... so pushing thru the radiator would be the greatest restriction ...

Also consider ..in the HVAC world TOO MUCH flow sometimes is a consideration because water moving too fast dosent have time to disipate the heat fast enough .. personally the radiator slowing down the flow I dont think we need to worry here. This is where FORD intentially put a restrictor ?

Also the increased flow at low RPM is where we really need it in a pantera. So a VARIABLE drive ..if its made in a 12 volt configuration would vary the speed of the in line pump depneding on temperature in a sensor in the motor. A small control box could do this.

There would be some engineering calculations and information needed to do this correctly.

Ron
larrywlarrywMember
Well, besides sucking water from the radiator and pushing it into the block, a conventional water pump also circulates water through the block and heads, no?

Would an inline pump do a proper job of circulating the water around inside the block and heads or would the water just follow the path of least resistance straight out the thermostat opening and leave hot spots in the back of the block? Is the restrictor what causes the water to move around inside the engine?

Like Ron, I pictured the inline pump(s) up front close to the radiator. The balance of the plumbing like a bypass thermostat and cabin heater water supply I would try to model on John Taphorns design. Also all up front.

I think you can view Johns set up at the Space City Pantera site.
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