Oil Flooded Valve Cover

...I think You just described what Your Problem is! You have a block designed for a hydraulic cam but Your running a Mechanical Roller. Did You restric the Lifter Bores and the galleries? Good thing Your Not running a PCV or You would be Smoking out the Exhaust Like a Smoke Screen...

Well, Mr. Marlin Jack, it sounds like you know what you are talking about. Previously I was running with a PCV valve and it would smoke rather badly. I did not restrict the lifter bores or galleries. How does the oil for the lifter bores get all the way up to the valve cover? So what do you suggest I do? I don't really want to pull the motor apart again. Is there anything that can be done with the motor in place aside from going back to a hydraulic cam?

The oil drain back passages can be blocked partially by the head gasket, and the intersection of the passages between the heads and block often don't line up very well. This is an area that requires blue printing when a motor is being rebuilt.

Evacuation of gases from the crankcase is a necessity. Blow by past the rings is building up pressure in the crankcase. That pressure is going to escape the crankcase by flowing out the breathers. So you have crankcase gases flowing up the drain back passages the oil is trying to flow down. This is slowing down the flow of oil out of the heads. If you don't have enough vacuum for a PCV valve, install one of the Moroso aspirator systems. Ideally the aspirator should be connected lower in the engine, near the crankcase, but away from oil splash. This way the air & oil are flowing in the same direction within the motor.

However, the roller lifters are almost certainly the main problem, flowing too much oil to the valve gear. And if anything, the hi volume oil pump would have only made things worse, as it flows 25% more oil for any given rpm. New lifters and push rods with 0.040" restrictors will be the best fix short of tearing the motor apart and bushing the lifter bores.

Thanks George. The restirctors that you mention are part of the push rods? I am not familiar with these. Could you explain. The cam was supplied by Crower. I have found hydraulic roller lifters by Comp Cams. This may be a dumb question but I gotta ask, could I use hydraulic roller lifters with a mechanical cam? If I could do that it would save me the trouble of draining the cooling system and replacing the cam.

George...can you be a bit more specific on blue printing the motor for better oil return? I assume it's making sure that the gaskets are not creating blockage or partially restricting flow similar to matching the gaskets on intake and exhaust ports???

My motor is out so I might as well tackle that too.

quote:

I have found hydraulic roller lifters by Comp Cams.

Dan Jones has reported that those hydraulic roller lifters from Comp Cams may not work in the Cleveland because the oil hole is too high on the body and found that they couldn't maintain oil pressure because the oil hole came out the top of the bore into the beveled area. I think these lifters require a reduced base circle cam.

The Ford Motorsport Early Block Hydraulic Roller Lifters are a much better choice and don't have this oiling problem.

With the engine fully installed but the rocker covers off, the simplest way to clear an oil drain-back problem is to use a 5/16" dia hardware store compression spring about 8" long for a screen door. You thread and rotate it by hand into each oil drainback passages like a Roto-rooter. In each stock head, there's only two drain-backs; one is straight through and seldom is totally blocked, but the other has two bends to work around internal water passages. The drillings that make this one up often don't match up, and stuff accumulates that eventually causes complete blockages. I've seen "reconditioned" cylinder heads in which this drain was absolutely full of brick-hard varnish. Hours in a hot tank degreaser will not clear such slop, but a door-spring is flexible enough to work around the curves.
If you do clear blockages like this on an assembled engine, all the slop then falls into the oil pan, so do this just before a normal oil change. If little pieces of slop eventually work their way through the coarse screen on the oil pump pickup, the varnish is hard enough to momentarily seize an oil pump and shear the distributor drive-gear roll pin.

quote:

Originally posted by garth66:

quote:

I have found hydraulic roller lifters by Comp Cams.

Dan Jones has reported that those hydraulic roller lifters from Comp Cams may not work in the Cleveland because the oil hole is too high on the body and found that they couldn't maintain oil pressure because the oil hole came out the top of the bore into the beveled area. I think these lifters require a reduced base circle cam.

The Ford Motorsport Early Block Hydraulic Roller Lifters are a much better choice and don't have this oiling problem.

Garth, I've been reading as much as I can on those lifters by Comp...I was almost ready to order their entire kit (cam, roller hyd lifters, springs, pushrods, etc). Art Stephens uses the same cam and "Retro Hyd Roller Lifters from Comp Cams and has have very good luck with them in his stroker...Russ Fulps recommended those lifters, and I thought Art said Dennis A used the same kit but one level higher??? I don't think Arts lifter bores were bushed or modified. On the comp cam literature/propaganda I recall it saying their kit cams use a reduced base circle, and that the orficing inside is "NEW" so they don't pump up at higher rev...but that's if you order the entire kit with matched pieces. Then again I had one of their techs tell me that that lifter won't rev much past 5500 and that "those lifters would be a great choice for a cleveland motor since those heads don't breath". (sorry George...this might be better put in a new subject, not trying to be a hijacker)

George - Can the camshaft in a Pantera be replaced with the motor in the car? The Ford shop manual says to remove the motor and transaxle to replace the cam. Seems to me you should be able to replace the cam with the motor in place. Thanks.

Cams can be replaced with the egine installed. To dial in cam and ignition timing, you'll need a 7" dia degree wheel to clear the water pipes below the crank nose (bigger ones interfere), but otherwise its straightforward.

BD & All

If there's a point I need to get across in regards to the Cleveland lubrication system its the lifter plays a very important part in that system, Ford used the lifters to limit the amount of oil flowing to the valve gear. The motor is very picky about what lifters are installed because of the fact the oil galleys intersect the lifter bores and because of the need to meter oil with the lifter. Ford originally used a special lifter in the Boss 351 with an internal oil metering system. That lifter was manufactured by Johnson Lifters and is still available, its sold by Crower under part number 66915X980-16P. If you are using a solid flat tappet camshaft that is the lifter to use. Period. Eaton sold a very good solid flat tappet lifter, but Eaton is out of business.

Read the description of the Johnson/Boss 351 lifter in the OHO Newsletter at the bottom of the page, it specifically mentions the lifter is designed to insure there is no pressure loss in the lubrication system.

Another variety of lifter uses an inertia valve (aka piddle valve) for metering oil, that type of lifter allows too much oil to flow to the valve gear, do not use a lifter with an inertia valve type metering system. Another type of metering system is the "edge orifice" design. Flat tappet lifters with an edge orifice should never be used in a Cleveland, because as the lifter rotates in its bore, the orifice will line up with the oil galley frequently and then there is no metering of oil, it flows too much oil to the valve gear. However, a roller lifter with an edge orifice metering system is OK because the lifter doesn't rotate. As long as the roller lifter is oriented properly it will meter oil as it is designed.

Which brings me to BD's problem. I believe the Comp Cams roller lifter is an edge orifice design. The orifice should not line up with the oil galleys. The lifters are oriented properly when the link bars are oriented towards the middle of the motor, if the link bars are oriented towards the outside of the motor the edge orifice will be aligned with the oil galley and too much oil will flow through the lifter. I'll bet the lifters on the right hand side of BD's motor are oriented improperly.

In general, roller cams and their lifters are much harder on the motor, many old time Cleveland guys will advise you to run a flat tappet camshaft if you corner them & ask them privately. At this point I want to point out to you that installing bushings with 0.040" orifices in the lifter bores is the big fix for the 351C, I've been pushing this modification with you guys since day one. The 351C original design parameters were 7200 rpm with a Boss 351 lubrication system and with the oem iron crankshaft. Engine speeds above 7200 rpm, aftermarket crankshafts and the use of the wrong lifters is when lubrication issues arise. Bushings in the lifter bores is essential if the 351C is to be operated at engine speeds above 7200 rpm, they are the fix for aftermarket crankshafts and they make the motor less picky about what lifter is being used because the orifice in the bushing is metering the oil, edge orifices work properly, etc. Even Ford Motorsport (aka SVO) sold a kit for installing bushings in the lifter bores back in the hey day of the 351C. Today a do-it-yourself bushing kit is available from Denny Wydendorf.

There are more details involved in doing the 351C lubrication system right, but that's enough for you to chew on for now.

Tom, as far as blue printing the drain back holes, open up the holes in the head gasket to align completely with the holes in the head, then lay the head gaskets on the decks (block's head mating surface) and chamfer the holes in the block to align them with the holes in the head gasket .

-G