Who said anything about a $20000 Super Hall Pantera? Find a $20000 basket case if you can.
Hall has modified other cars for customers turning 71's and 's into GT5s' also.
I think the number I heard for "super panteras" was 8.
There was one a couple of months ago on ebay I think at a $80,000 no sale.
Considering it cost twice that to build, why are they a good investment?
That's a 50% loss.
Original cars have the greatest potential for gain becasue there is the least invested in them .
Original cars will be at $60 ish eventually, which is where the modified cars asking prices are now. They have a lot to go to catch up to all the muscle cars.
35 to 40 now fo something that needs nothing, just be maintained is what's hot now.
I think what that is suggesting is that the speculators are thinking what I am, 60 soon.
The question is really what potential buyers consider stock and modified, not what current owners do.
I think I'm making sense? My head is currently buzzing from band #1 practicing here.
If I don't hemorage internally within the next 1/2 hour I'll probably recover somewhat again later. Oh I forgot band #2 is coming in too.
I'll be medicated for awhile. 'Later dudes!
quote:There was one a couple of months ago on ebay I think at a $80,000 no sale.
Actually it did sell, off ebay..to the AZ POCA Chapter Prez.
Price was in the 70's.
quote:Original cars have the greatest potential for gain becasue there is the least invested in them .
Absolutely! But then you can't really enjoy a true original.. Catch 22, eh?
Unlike other cars of its era, the Pantera simply craves modifications.
quote:Original cars will be at $60 ish eventually, which is where the modified cars asking prices are now. They have a lot to go to catch up to all the muscle cars.
Maybe. But I've been hearing of this boon in prices on original cars for the last ten years....
Personally, I'd stand to gain on my stock 72, but then I ain't selling so it doesn't really matter to me.
Kevin
quote:My head is currently buzzing from band #1 practicing here.
If I don't hemorage internally within the next 1/2 hour I'll probably recover somewhat again later. Oh I forgot band #2 is coming in too.
I'll be medicated for awhile. 'Later dudes!
p.s. Sounds like you need a stiff drink. Take care.
It's not so much that they crave modifications it's more that they look like kit cars that were never finished.
I even think that Tom Tjarda commented about this recently.
As far as values go, there are at least two schools of thought here. The Barett-Jackson crowd and the crowd that believes there is no real Barett-Jackson Auction.
That it is an elaberate hoax, like the group that says the US never really landed on the moon.
Must be something someone is putting in the water? Congress should investigate that.
I even think that Tom Tjarda commented about this recently.
As far as values go, there are at least two schools of thought here. The Barett-Jackson crowd and the crowd that believes there is no real Barett-Jackson Auction.
That it is an elaberate hoax, like the group that says the US never really landed on the moon.
Must be something someone is putting in the water? Congress should investigate that.
That's it I'll call her the Kava-Kava girl.
I agree that these cars appear to crave modifications. But remember back in 1971 - 74 the gas crisis hit the US and Muscle cars and emissions put a lot of cars into hiding and stiffer laws stricked highly modified cars. The era was over .. the Pantera was in the wrong place and the wrong time.
Barret Jackson is for the High End Investor not a true Motor Head. For example you wont see me there paying 200k for a DODGE.
I only own my Pantera 2 years, I'm not sure if it feels like it became more popular since I purchased one or I'm just paying more attention to them around me, but from what I see and read the prices are rising.
And they are getting more popular in my mind also. LOL
Barret Jackson is for the High End Investor not a true Motor Head. For example you wont see me there paying 200k for a DODGE.
I only own my Pantera 2 years, I'm not sure if it feels like it became more popular since I purchased one or I'm just paying more attention to them around me, but from what I see and read the prices are rising.
And they are getting more popular in my mind also. LOL
An applicable term could be, "rediscovered". I would agree with that.
Panteras also deserve a better fate in relationship to the rest of the market.
What about $1.1 million for a LS6 Chevelle? It was from Westchester. A Coca-cola driver was the original owner.
Panteras also deserve a better fate in relationship to the rest of the market.
What about $1.1 million for a LS6 Chevelle? It was from Westchester. A Coca-cola driver was the original owner.
I was trying to bid on a set of original Campy wheeels and Arriva tires on ebay last weekend. It got over $1000 but did not reach reserve. Not one to easily give up, I called the guy, Bob Perkins. He does Mustang Restos for a living and is very active in that community. He said he also owns a couple of Panteras.
Anyway, after I introduced myself I asked about the wheels/tires and the first words out of his mouth were that the Pantera market is lousy because there are no stock cars out there and the owners just don't get it. Until owners start to restore to stock, the market for the cars won't go anywhere. But he was encouraged in that there seems to be some more interest in the cars and in restoring to stock.
BTW, he wanted$1850 for the wheels/tires. And he is willing to wait for the market to catch up to his price.
Anyway, after I introduced myself I asked about the wheels/tires and the first words out of his mouth were that the Pantera market is lousy because there are no stock cars out there and the owners just don't get it. Until owners start to restore to stock, the market for the cars won't go anywhere. But he was encouraged in that there seems to be some more interest in the cars and in restoring to stock.
BTW, he wanted$1850 for the wheels/tires. And he is willing to wait for the market to catch up to his price.
quote:An applicable term could be, "rediscovered
Most people don't know what a Pantera is anyway.The one's that did know had forgotten. They got some bad press when they first came out,and then the oil imbargo,and then the fallout between Ford and DeTomaso,and then BAM!,no more Pantera.They were forgotten,just like most muscle cars.But muscle cars made their return.Maybe the Pantera can too, but it did have some old press to get over.Oh! BTW gas prices have spiked again also.Are we starting the 70's over again?
quote:Originally posted by jwr2968:
...Are we starting the 70's over again?
Have you noticed people haven't dumped their gas guzzling cars for smaller economy cars, yet? I have. I think the sales of large SUVs has slowed, but they aren't sitting on the new car lots & being dumped by their owners. The difference between the '70s & now is rationing. The government hasn't instituted gasoline rationing yet, people aren't waiting in lines to purchase fuel. That's my best guess why people haven't reacted today the way they did 30 years ago.
your friend on the DTBB
quote:Originally posted by jeff6559:
... the first words out of his mouth were that the Pantera market is lousy because there are no stock cars out there and the owners just don't get it. Until owners start to restore to stock, the market for the cars won't go anywhere. ....
interesting story Jeff, and timely as far as this topic is concerned. Thanks for sharing.
See guys, I'm not alone!
QUOTE :
Until owners start to restore to stock, the market for the cars won't go anywhere. ....
This is why I started the post ! LOL
I agree I think the Pantera was just came out at the wrong time ... I drove mine Sunday thru a park in NY called Harriman State ... it gave me a chance to open the car up ... and then do some cruzining ... and these cars good cars.
Be known I had my share of other cars to compare it to ... needless to say I got pulled over by the BOYS IN BLUE but it was to admire the car.
They price will come up soon and if they keep showning up on EBAY and digging them out of garages ... beware this is a diamond in the rough.
Just dont alter them to the point of no return back to stock. Lord knows there are a lot of Mustang owners kicking themselves in the behind.
Until owners start to restore to stock, the market for the cars won't go anywhere. ....
This is why I started the post ! LOL
I agree I think the Pantera was just came out at the wrong time ... I drove mine Sunday thru a park in NY called Harriman State ... it gave me a chance to open the car up ... and then do some cruzining ... and these cars good cars.
Be known I had my share of other cars to compare it to ... needless to say I got pulled over by the BOYS IN BLUE but it was to admire the car.
They price will come up soon and if they keep showning up on EBAY and digging them out of garages ... beware this is a diamond in the rough.
Just dont alter them to the point of no return back to stock. Lord knows there are a lot of Mustang owners kicking themselves in the behind.
quote:I asked about the wheels/tires and the first words out of his mouth were that the Pantera market is lousy because there are no stock cars out there and the owners just don't get it. Until owners start to restore to stock, the market for the cars won't go anywhere. But he was encouraged in that there seems to be some more interest in the cars and in restoring to stock.
BTW, he wanted$1850 for the wheels/tires. And he is willing to wait for the market to catch up to his price.
Sounds like the perfect sales pitch to get you to buy his old wheels.
Refer this doomsday guy to the PIM website and he'll see what Dave Adler has been saying....The Pantera market is very strong right now. PIM is moving cars! Their recent sales success also proves that QUALITY rules, irrespective of originality..
Josh
That's my best guess why people haven't reacted today the way they did 30 years ago.
George,not yet.
George,not yet.
Define stock, define original. Everyone of you has just a slightly different definition. Everyone has no problem changing "one little thing". A couple of thousand "one little things" is a lot.
"It's not original" is a tire kickers negotiation position for buying. You got Michelin tires? He hates Michelin tires and wants Pirellis. He likes the car but it's overpriced, but he'll make you an offer. BS, Communist Brainwashing.
I think the closest definition is a flared car. Once you go to a GT5s, there is no going back. How many '72 factory GT5s' were there? That's the Pantera curious' perspective.
Gee, why was he selling his 8/10 Campis? 'Gonna put a set of "custom wheels" on? Original custom wheels I suppose?
As far as the market reacting to the price of wheels, a pair of 10" are $1500 from every vendor that has them. I think $1800 for 4 wheels and 4 tires is kinda below what you can buy them for, no? Is there a depreciation chart for 10" Campi's? I don't think so?
Also, I know him, no disrespect intended, he is a restorer. You got the 120 second commercial live.
All of this rhetoric is the result of a Marque at the bottom of it's desireabilaty. He'll sell you one of his "original unrestored" cars for the right price, I'm sure. Isn't everyones car for sale like that?
A car at the top isn't even advertised. When is the last time you saw a real 427SC Cobra advertised? There is no book value of those cars. One pays what it takes to get it.
If you can't pay then you can't play.
The only consideration now is should you flair or no flair, that is the question. The bolt ons are also bolt offs.
"It's not original" is a tire kickers negotiation position for buying. You got Michelin tires? He hates Michelin tires and wants Pirellis. He likes the car but it's overpriced, but he'll make you an offer. BS, Communist Brainwashing.
I think the closest definition is a flared car. Once you go to a GT5s, there is no going back. How many '72 factory GT5s' were there? That's the Pantera curious' perspective.
Gee, why was he selling his 8/10 Campis? 'Gonna put a set of "custom wheels" on? Original custom wheels I suppose?
As far as the market reacting to the price of wheels, a pair of 10" are $1500 from every vendor that has them. I think $1800 for 4 wheels and 4 tires is kinda below what you can buy them for, no? Is there a depreciation chart for 10" Campi's? I don't think so?
Also, I know him, no disrespect intended, he is a restorer. You got the 120 second commercial live.
All of this rhetoric is the result of a Marque at the bottom of it's desireabilaty. He'll sell you one of his "original unrestored" cars for the right price, I'm sure. Isn't everyones car for sale like that?
A car at the top isn't even advertised. When is the last time you saw a real 427SC Cobra advertised? There is no book value of those cars. One pays what it takes to get it.
If you can't pay then you can't play.
The only consideration now is should you flair or no flair, that is the question. The bolt ons are also bolt offs.
quote:the Pantera market is lousy because there are no stock cars out there and the owners just don't get it. Until owners start to restore to stock, the market for the cars won't go anywhere. But he was encouraged in that there seems to be some more interest in the cars and in restoring to stock.
Jeff, I am doing my part. I have put the original stock wheels and tires on the car and have removed the spacers. Now all I have to do is take that wing offa there and she will be back to stock.
Doug, you know what?? YOu are a pretty smart man. Too bad you live all the way back in New York. I would like for you and me to get together and sample some shine.
I don't know DT, I saw that movie "Deliverence"!
quote:I think the closest definition is a flared car. Once you go to a GT5s, there is no going back. How many factory GT5s' were there?
Gee, why was he selling his 8/10 Campis?
Flaring a Pantera's is sort of like someone taking a stock Ferrari Daytona Coupe and converting it into a Spider. It looks good and can sometimes command a decent price but it ain't the real thing!
He wanted that price for original 7 and 8 inch Campis with the original low mileage Arriva tires. True enough though, his business is restoring original cars. At least he has a Pantera!
quote:Originally posted by george pence:
The difference between the '70s & now is rationing.
Rationing? No, it was just long lines.
Is that what the line was about? Go figure.
This thread is HILARIOUS!!
Some of you originality freaks are sounding like the Corvette-weiners I throw eggs at...
DonM
Some of you originality freaks are sounding like the Corvette-weiners I throw eggs at...
DonM
quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
I don't know DT, I saw that movie "Deliverence"!
...and I saw that movie "The Godfather" and that is why I stay out of the big city. I don't want to wake up with my Panteras carburator in bed next to me and gasoline all over the sheets. Talk about bad nightmares.
Oh yes I remember DT, we got a guy from TN to do that for us, we ain't got not horses here.
Oh yea Don, the resin gases from the fibergalss goes to their heads, they start to get dillusional and say they're Americas only sports car. It goes along with the Marque. Ugly orange engines too. Yuk!
Oh yea Don, the resin gases from the fibergalss goes to their heads, they start to get dillusional and say they're Americas only sports car. It goes along with the Marque. Ugly orange engines too. Yuk!
quote:Originally posted by jeff6559:
...Rationing? No, it was just long lines.
Here in Calif, we could only purchase fuel every other day, based on the license plate, if the last number were odd or even.
In the eighties we had another period of rationing, about all I can remember is that you couldn't refuel unless your fuel gage read less than 1/2, or was it less than 1/4. Ahhhh, I apologize, my memory isn't working this AM
your friend on the DTBB
quote:Originally posted by Pantera Don:
...Some of you originality freaks are sounding like the Corvette-weiners I throw eggs at...
Don, there's room for everyone on the DTBB, the owners who want to keep their car concourse oem, owners like me who add a few select improvements, owners who wildly modify them, and owners who race them. There's even room for guys who throw eggs at Corvette owners. There's no room for disrespect however. If you get to know the folks here, you'll find there are no freaks, they're a good bunch.
your friend on the DTBB
Hi George,
From Websters.
Freak: someone who is ardently devoted to something; enthusiastic supporter
An originality freak, in the automotive sense, is someone that is devoted to the originality of a car.
If someone is offended by that, in this politically correct environment we live in, then I apologize.. I'll go back to egging the nose-in-the-air, decal correct, numbers-matching Corvette crowd. They love me.
DonM
Pantera FREAK
and 16-year Pushbutton owner
From Websters.
Freak: someone who is ardently devoted to something; enthusiastic supporter
An originality freak, in the automotive sense, is someone that is devoted to the originality of a car.
If someone is offended by that, in this politically correct environment we live in, then I apologize.. I'll go back to egging the nose-in-the-air, decal correct, numbers-matching Corvette crowd. They love me.
DonM
Pantera FREAK
and 16-year Pushbutton owner
There is more then one answer to the question. If we only see one answer, no one will ever agree.
I originally wanted a stock looking car. Nothing over the top, just the general Pantera sports car. Then I ran across the wide body and I couldn't do without it. Then I came across the pushbutton I need to restore. Now I have a wide body which could never be stock again and a Pushbutton which hopefully I can keep relatively close to stock in it's appearance and charm.
WIDE BODY. The wide body I have a host of things in mind I would like to do with it. I hope for a car which has the pizzazz they did in the late 70's to mid 80's as performance cars based on the Pantera. A Hall wide body is as much a car as a Shelby Cobra. It is not the same as slapping fender flares on a Ferrari's Spider. It is a car in it's own right born from the GT5 heritage.
PUSHBUTTON. I doubt the pushbutton will ever be 100 percent stock but I would like it to mostly resemble and be stock. It is the style, and fun as it was when it was produced.
Gary
I originally wanted a stock looking car. Nothing over the top, just the general Pantera sports car. Then I ran across the wide body and I couldn't do without it. Then I came across the pushbutton I need to restore. Now I have a wide body which could never be stock again and a Pushbutton which hopefully I can keep relatively close to stock in it's appearance and charm.
WIDE BODY. The wide body I have a host of things in mind I would like to do with it. I hope for a car which has the pizzazz they did in the late 70's to mid 80's as performance cars based on the Pantera. A Hall wide body is as much a car as a Shelby Cobra. It is not the same as slapping fender flares on a Ferrari's Spider. It is a car in it's own right born from the GT5 heritage.
PUSHBUTTON. I doubt the pushbutton will ever be 100 percent stock but I would like it to mostly resemble and be stock. It is the style, and fun as it was when it was produced.
Gary
It is common for people to look down on the people that do not drive their cars. If it wasn't for them we would not have 20K mile nearly original Pantera's popping up here and there. In many of the high dollar cars being bought at auctions and other places, often these cars are pulled from circulation and put into collections and museums. Many people see this as blasphemy. It is one thing to leave a car in the yard and watch it slowly disappear but it is another thing to take a completely stock car, restore it to concourse level, and preserve it.
If the cars were not appreciated for what they were how will the true history be carried on. Right now the Fad is to take muscle cars and put low profile flashy chrome rims on them. I HATE IT! I love to watch shows like Overhaulin, etc. I have a great respect for What Chip Foose does and how he treats his people. That being said I HATE THE RIMS on almost all the cars he makes. Maybe I am the only one who thinks this way but the rims and tires that came on a 70' mustang are proportioned right (or very close) for the car.
That being said, the proportions of low profile tires look better on the new Cuda and Camero concept cars. The cars where designed about the rims and they fit the design as a whole.
With all that being said, some one close to me has a Cobra replica. You always see these cars driven at the car show (babied). His comment was I bought this car because it was not a real one and I can thrash the hell out of it. He's spun it off the track a couple times. No holds bar!
A few cars should be held back to keep the patina of the erra, the designers, and the history. I think it's a good thing. I think it's good some are thrashed and some are babied, shown and well cared for.
Gary
If the cars were not appreciated for what they were how will the true history be carried on. Right now the Fad is to take muscle cars and put low profile flashy chrome rims on them. I HATE IT! I love to watch shows like Overhaulin, etc. I have a great respect for What Chip Foose does and how he treats his people. That being said I HATE THE RIMS on almost all the cars he makes. Maybe I am the only one who thinks this way but the rims and tires that came on a 70' mustang are proportioned right (or very close) for the car.
That being said, the proportions of low profile tires look better on the new Cuda and Camero concept cars. The cars where designed about the rims and they fit the design as a whole.
With all that being said, some one close to me has a Cobra replica. You always see these cars driven at the car show (babied). His comment was I bought this car because it was not a real one and I can thrash the hell out of it. He's spun it off the track a couple times. No holds bar!
A few cars should be held back to keep the patina of the erra, the designers, and the history. I think it's a good thing. I think it's good some are thrashed and some are babied, shown and well cared for.
Gary
I had 2 lines of thinking in the last note and forgot to finish one line. The cars with original style rims will hold their value and patina. People ultimatly identify with the erra and styling of the erra and find it cool again.
The trans am has original tires and rims. When I bring it around people with fancy chrome over sized wheels they look at it like "You know, that is cool, original is different!
The right look never goes away albeit original or not. The Hall Pantera gt5 look will never go away. The original Campelo look will never die. We will all look back one day at these big rimmed cars like we did at disco and say "What the hell were we think'n!" God I hope so!
G
The trans am has original tires and rims. When I bring it around people with fancy chrome over sized wheels they look at it like "You know, that is cool, original is different!
The right look never goes away albeit original or not. The Hall Pantera gt5 look will never go away. The original Campelo look will never die. We will all look back one day at these big rimmed cars like we did at disco and say "What the hell were we think'n!" God I hope so!
G
Re Gary's post above and Josh's post below.
Here! Here!
Here! Here!
Gary,
Sounds like you get to enjoy the best of both Pantera worlds! If only my garage was big enough (along with my bank account) I would add another Pantera!
Anyone know of a Hall GT-4 Pantera for sale?
Josh
Sounds like you get to enjoy the best of both Pantera worlds! If only my garage was big enough (along with my bank account) I would add another Pantera!
Anyone know of a Hall GT-4 Pantera for sale?
Josh
Hopefully one day Josh, right now everything needs work.
G
G
quote:Originally posted by comp2:
Hopefully one day Josh, right now everything needs work.
G
Ahh, but such is life. If it comes too easy, it really wouldn't fun.
You guys notice the red original '74 is back on ebay. Wow that car looks like a you went back in time. Someone living close to it should go check it out.
Josh
Good thing that you don't need one of each color too Gary, just red right?
quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
Good thing that you don't need one of each color too Gary, just red right?
That's kind of the way it worked out.I have 4 red sports cars more by chance then anything. When it's all said and done I doubt the 2 Pantera's will end up red.
quote:Originally posted by Pantera Don:
...If someone is offended by that, in this politically correct environment we live in, then I apologize.. I'll go back to egging the nose-in-the-air, decal correct, numbers-matching Corvette crowd. They love me.
DonM
Pantera FREAK
and 16-year Pushbutton owner
Don, we here at the DTBB love you too! I've been in a grueling meeting all day, or I would have replied earlier. Freak is one of those words that can mean many things to many people, either good or bad. For instance, when my parents generation referred to long haired people as freaks, it was not meant to be understood respectfully, just the opposite, it was meant in a cruel way. The way you used the word in your post was hard to interpret. I certainly hope my response didn't make you feel uneasy or unwelcome, that certainly was not my intention. Its cool you took the time to explain yourself. Political correctness is never a criteria here. But as I wrote earlier, respect is. I have had to apologize for things I've written too, crap like that happens with the written word from time to time. You clarify things and move on.
your friend on the DTBB
Sorry Guys I have been away in the garage working on 6476.
By original I mean everything as it was from factory. That could be a nice restoration to something like my new GTS, exactly from the factory with all the original patina. Even the smell. All thought it to has a couple upgrades fuse box, carb and ignition.
I have to say thats why I love the site and the Pantera, because of the wide spectrum of enthusiast's. From stock to race car.
I also have to comment that the corvette, mustang and shelby clubs go way overboard. Thats why I sold mine. I spent years restoing a 69 Shelby only to go to a show and have someone tell me this screw is not correct. Well I towed the car out of a garage of the original owner's father who died in Vietnam and the father called me to purchase the car. I visited this car since I was 7 .. only I would have known those were the original screws.
So I too have one complete original Pnatera with a couple upgrades and one in limbo ... in which I leaning towards GT4 Modified.
Good luck guys and I always say " drive with your heart and buy with your head."
Heres my collection of animals, cobra mustang and pantera.
By original I mean everything as it was from factory. That could be a nice restoration to something like my new GTS, exactly from the factory with all the original patina. Even the smell. All thought it to has a couple upgrades fuse box, carb and ignition.
I have to say thats why I love the site and the Pantera, because of the wide spectrum of enthusiast's. From stock to race car.
I also have to comment that the corvette, mustang and shelby clubs go way overboard. Thats why I sold mine. I spent years restoing a 69 Shelby only to go to a show and have someone tell me this screw is not correct. Well I towed the car out of a garage of the original owner's father who died in Vietnam and the father called me to purchase the car. I visited this car since I was 7 .. only I would have known those were the original screws.
So I too have one complete original Pnatera with a couple upgrades and one in limbo ... in which I leaning towards GT4 Modified.
Good luck guys and I always say " drive with your heart and buy with your head."
Heres my collection of animals, cobra mustang and pantera.
Attachments
Images (1)
very nice Ron, this is the first time I've seen a pic of your GTS (9138).
Notice, even though it was a gray market car, it was built with US spec bumpers, it was intended for the US when it was built. Keep it stock Ron. There are only 462 Embo coached Panteras, excluding the Si model.
They are so beautiful. Even in white...lol.....
take care my friend.
Notice, even though it was a gray market car, it was built with US spec bumpers, it was intended for the US when it was built. Keep it stock Ron. There are only 462 Embo coached Panteras, excluding the Si model.
They are so beautiful. Even in white...lol.....
take care my friend.