Mangusta 8MA1088 - What are the casting numbers of the original block and heads

Koji,

Greetings!

Not sure how I missed this thread, but I did.  I see LOTS of different info being thrown around....some of it good, some of it not so.....and some of it that is great in any other car but a Mangusta!

First, let's consider value of the car.  Off the charts! Changing too much will cause the "ripple effect" of requiring many changes down the process.   Let's take an intake swap.....now, does the jackshaft bracket fit?  Will the carb linkage hit the jackshaft?  Does the stock air cleaner still fit? Do you need to cut the engine shields because the carb is too high?

Instead of just changing the intake, you've likely altered much of the engine compartment and "broken" what is the Mangusta in stock form.

Changing the heads would lead to the same argument.....new intake required? Are new headers required? Do all the brackets fit?

I went thru ALL of this when I built my final engine for my Goose.  Some of it while my car was still driveable since the old engine ran.....until the engine mount broke...then it was full speed crunch to get all the new parts to fit while fixing the frame...... not fun having no car to drive!

The trend for the high dollar sales....is with stock cars, or stock appearing cars. Mangusta AND Pantera alike!  Investors want original........unless you have a total crazy show car built by a top builder or very talented privateer like the Fin building the crazy copper/orange BMW powered Pantera.....which is a work of art.  

Most of our cars suffered from owners "slapping on parts" back in the 70's.....and discarding the original pieces.........ugh!  Now we pay for the earlier mistakes!

So, decide where your car fits.......to preserve value, or become a work of art? (The car already is a fine piece of art...........!!!! Some work so hard to mess it up!)

Second: The car was not built to take more than 400-450HP.  The frame rails are thin metal boxed together............. a big HP engine in this car, and driving it like a mad man will bust the car......at the seams.    I had multiple cracks develop from "normal driving" on really bad public roads............   

The final engine in my car developed around 315HP at the rear wheels.  NOT a monster, but more than stock, and a real fun car to drive.  I still got upwards of 19-20MPG on mild days!    I had aluminum aftermarket heads, a higher than stock intake, and aftermarket headers on a 1992 roller cam block.  BUT.....I built all of this back when these cars were barely bringing $60-75K!    Today, I would strip that engine out, buy a 68 Mustang or Cougar with a manual trans 302 engine in it and pull that engine out and put it in the Mangusta!   Then I'd put the fancy engine in the Mustang and sell it for twice what I paid for the Mustang to begin with........  I digress.       Point is, 300HP at the rear wheels is MORE than enough to have fun with, won't break parts, and did I mention.....is way more fun!!?    .....and is mild mannered to drive in traffic.

Point being: a STOCK cast iron 302 with a slight cam upgrade, perhaps some exhaust porting on the heads will STILL be a fun car to drive!  Again, are you gonna go out and get crazy stupid driving your "retirement account" around??

OK change the subject to parts:

Your block and heads will likely have all "C8OE" casting numbers on them. Intake has the C8ZE number. (Early 289 cars could have C7ZE or C7XE pieces.)

Your friend's engine block is a 289 from early 1966 car. (cast in 1965)  The crank is 302.   Mistake here is that the 289 block doesn't have cylinder bores that are as long as the 302 block, so more piston is exposed at the bottom of the stroke. Not a big deal.....but that is the deal.....  The block was replaced.

The head shown, might be a hipo 289, but I cannot see detail in the pic.  The pushrod slots appear to be narrow, and I forgot to look to see if there are cups for the valve springs cast in place.   I could not see the part number cast into the head. Could be on the intake runner(s) on the other side  of the head........  There could be a number at the upper outside corners cast in.....a 19 or 21?

The "J" code heads were used on the 4V 68 Shelbys, Mustangs and Cougars. With manual transmissions there were air ports drilled for the smog rails. With auto trans....no holes.    These were closed chamber heads and used with flat top pistons created the highest compression ratio Ford used on a 302 (excepting the Boss...) up in the 10.5 range......until late models built after the mid 80's.

If one had an intake manifold that came from a Goose, the date code on that intake could be used to source other parts to "match".   What I have seen over the years dealing with 60's Mercury Cougars and Ford Mustangs etc, is that most engine parts were cast in about the same 30 day period.....and assembled 30-45 days later (machining date stamped in front of block on some....).  There were enough 302 blocks used in 68-69-70 model cars that one could be able to locate a date coded block that would be correct for your intake.   Heads, flywheel, distributor, carb, harmonic balancer, and water pump would also bear similar date codes although distributors can appear outside the window....likely built in a different area or assembly line due to casting and machining differences. (not cast iron!)

While a replacement would "not be the original block" the fact that it was made on the same line at the same time frame......IMHO wouldn't affect the value of the car at all.  How could anyone prove it wasn't beyond a reasonable doubt?

If you replaced a gear in your ZF....no one would likely question the date that the gear was made.....so.....does that affect the value? Likely not.....so same argument here.....with the cast iron parts.

So, apply the KISS principle (Keep It Steve Simple!) and your life will be easier......  Difficult enough trying to find old Ford parts here in the US now, I can't imagine trying to find them in Japan.    This will also preserve and create value in your car, won't hurt the looks, and will still be fun to drive!!!

Cheers!

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