Pantera #1448 - on Ebay *HELP~looking for ADVICE!

I've seen it at auction before, sounds like a nice car. I can’t see any of the pictures this time.

Couple of comments for you: expenditure does not always equate to value. If there is a $130k invested he'll be fortunate to see 50 cents on the $.

Even with alloy engine and carbon fiber trunk and deck lid, there is virtually no chance that car is 2300lb in street trim. -Likely much closer to 3000 lbs than 2000 lb.

Though there nothing extraordinary about 600 HP Yates headed engines, getting it from 351 cubes would most certainly require an aggressive solid (likely roller) cam. Even so, I doubt it would be a well mannered street car and it would require frequent valve train and possibly other maintenance if this is the case.

Are you prepared to spend as much time maintaining your car as driving it? Or do you want to add gas, change oil occasionally, and drive your car?

There is the possibility that the power level has been embellished to the same extent as the (light) weight. If this is so my comments may not apply.

If you are comfortable assessing these things and all the Pantera intricacies, enjoy your trip. If you're serious about spending up to $65k on a Pantera you'd be well advised to fly a knowledgable individual there with you.

Good Luck and let us know how you do.
Kelly

To me the car looks pretty nice, but like Kelly, I suspect the HP and the weight (almost certainly) are being "enhanced" which always causes one to be suspect about what else may be less than accurate.

From the photos it appears to be a very nice and straight car with virtually all of the sensible and needed upgrades already done. It is a bit puzzling that such an early car would have a later deck and bumpers (late vs. early pre-L fronts and "L" CF replacement rear). EDIT: I just realized both hoods are CF which explains the presence of a late rear deck lid — sorry, my oversight. Also, the gas fill neck is REALLY short and might provide for some scary fill-ups when the headers are hot (mine scares me and it is longer).

If I was in the market, I would certainly give this car a closer look and a drive. I would bring a paint gauge and/or a paint magnet to ensure no huge issues hide under that nice paint job. If the price is in your range (and you fit the seats) then you could end up a happy camper with a very sweet looking car.

God luck!
Mark

quote:

It is a bit puzzling that such an early car would have a later deck and bumpers (late vs. early pre-L fronts and "L" CF replacement rear)

FWIW, the front bumerettes are not pre-L, but are Euro bumperettes. The pre-L front bumpers wrap around the turn signal.

Agreed with previous comments from Kelly and Mark. For reference, talk at the recent Reno track event was that Greg Esakoff's full race Pantera (Aluminum engine and lightened to the extreme) weighed in at around 2600 lbs.

As an additional note, photo's of the engine bay and the later ZF ones don't seem to correlate, different fill plug color and shifter u-joint. Bear in mind that the ZF also appears to be a 4 bolt indicating an earlier -1, which would be far harder (read more expensive) to obtain parts for.

If this isn't for the car for you I know of a really nice maroon/tan car for sale in Reno $52.5K firm. I have no interest in the sale of this car, but I do know it and consider it well priced.

Julian

quote:

Originally posted by garth66:
FWIW, the front bumerettes are not pre-L, but are Euro bumperettes. The pre-L front bumpers wrap around the turn signal.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

Good spotting on the differnces in when some photos were taken Julian. The ZF looks the same to me (and identical to mine) but some of the photos were obviously taken after they did the silver wax buff-up to make it look nicer. It's hard to keep the stuff off the fill plug when you're doing it. Of course, it could be silver paint too.

Mark

Good Morning Guys.

Thanks to each of you for taking time to give me your thoughts on this car.

You've made allot of good points.
My biggest concern is I want a super nicely restored ride, but not something I work on more than I drive.

I am still going to head down and look at it tomorrow. Looks like his bottom price is $55k.

Found another Pantera in Pittsburg PA. A guy name Ken is selling it for his friend that passed away. It is red, looks very nice in photos asking $66K. Seems to have been on the market for a long time.

Nonetheless, Thanks again for your help.
Will keep you posted!

Have an excellent day!

-Jeff Printz
Washington, DC
202-359-5333

quote:

Originally posted by Joules5:

If this isn't for the car for you I know of a really nice maroon/tan car for sale in Reno $52.5K firm.

Julian

Julian, If you could forward me any info on this car I will look into it.

Thank you!
Jeff
printz@evolveDC.com

I've been contacting this seller also and he says that it will be at the Goodguys event this weekend so he may get some interest there but it's only at $38K on Ebay. Looks nice, just not sure if it's a $55K car for me with all of the maintenance needed.

Ozone

It is strange that the add says that the car has never been hit but it has L model turn signal buckets and a early (mounts from the rear) grill. It also has the later windshield molding and the earlier door window molding. Kinda odd.
That is a -1 ZF also

Ron

You guys have an amazing eye for detail.

BadCatDC - the Pantera family helped me avoid buying the wrong car when I was looking to buy. The advice is priceless.

- Robert

Keep in mind that none of us are saying this is a bad car at all. Most of the things raised are easily explainable as choice upgrades or typical outcomes of a full repaint (early one-piece windshield moldings are often damaged and replaced with later ones if the glass is removed). The key benefit here is that those of us who have spent years around Panteras can point out things a newbie may miss. Once the car is looked at close up these may not be "issues" at all.

Good luck with the search!


Mark

Overall the car looks nice from the photos, but yes, nothing like seeing it in person. Don't mind me, but I am one for detail...if someone is going to the effort to make an engine bay nice along with an aluminum engine, then polish that puppy up along with the trans & related parts. Once you have it all polished, maintenance is nill. Other parts could have used some attention too from the photos, but overall looks nice. Engine almost looks identical to my red 5S.

Jeff, This car is beautiful...wish my car was that far along. I'm by far no expert and there are many that know the changes on the 72's much better than I. I have a December 72 build #4382, first how can the serial #'s be so different 1448 vs. 4382 but are the same year? Also, my rear wheel houses are different than this car, my trailing edges have rounded contours while this one has the sharp corner. I've seen a number of early and late 72's that are consistent with my wheel houses. Maybe the year in the add is incorrect, or there may have been a wheel house repair done? Like I said there are many people that can tell you exact changes in production, but those items seem inconsistent to me.

I just looked at the serial number decoder...this is a April 71 build. Did someone also put the 72 L rear bumper on...also the rear deck lid has the rib down the center which I think is consistent with a 72?

Jeff,

I totally agree that this is a VERY nice looking cat with many tasteful mods.

My one comment relates to the carb, which looks to be the same Holley 735cfm carb that I have (the one used on the CobraJet engines of the late '70s). Solid carb, but I doubt it would push the horsepower north of 600.

I would budget around $600 to have that carb re-built and tuned over the next year. I had to and the work provided a noticeable increase in performance.

Best of luck,
EA
#3528

Currently at $53,800 on eBay with a little under 3 days until the close of auction. It looks as though the car has hit its reserve.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...trksid=p4506.c0.m245