Yes. Philippe/Vito/Whatever,we have heard your point.
Now let's see more of this magnificent car which has obviously racing history.
Magnificent car,
Please share more!! It's like an archeological dig site - Awesome, thanks for posting.
Please share more!! It's like an archeological dig site - Awesome, thanks for posting.
Once again Philippe explains that the documents are more important than the car itself .....
Remind me, what does he sell Philippe, documents or cars?
Remind me, what does he sell Philippe, documents or cars?
This car "was" a good looking GT5. Marcel Schaub once owned this car. Is he still involved with it or did he sell it?
René
René
Marcel sold us the car.
Are you intending to take this chassis back to Group 4 specification?
If so have you acquired all the parts needed to do that authentically? ($$$$)
If so have you acquired all the parts needed to do that authentically? ($$$$)
It has already been restored to its original 1972 Group 4 specs.
Yes I see evidence of a Group 4 car, nothing as yet that leads me to believe it is 2263? How do you come to that conclusion?
Were there any numbers stamped on the underside of the headlight buckets?
Were there any numbers stamped on the underside of the headlight buckets?
quote:Originally posted by Rik911:
It has already been restored to its original 1972 Group 4 specs.
Authentic group 4 parts don't grow on trees. I hope as your thread progresses you'll show us those parts as well, not just the chassis.
deniscCaretaker of 8MA1244 '70 Euro Mangusta DRIVE THEM, THEY WERE MEANT TO BE DRIVEN, IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT ONE, BUY A POSTER!
quote:Originally posted by Joules:
Yes I see evidence of a Group 4 car, nothing as yet that leads me to believe it is 2263? How do you come to that conclusion?
Were there any numbers stamped on the underside of the headlight buckets?
If there were they would be 263 or 63 !!!!
quote:Originally posted by The Reaper:quote:Originally posted by Rik911:
It has already been restored to its original 1972 Group 4 specs.
Authentic group 4 parts don't grow on trees. I hope as your thread progresses you'll show us those parts as well, not just the chassis.
You will see the end result of course. And you are right the original Pantera Group 4 parts are very hard to find.
quote:Originally posted by Denis C:quote:Originally posted by Joules:
Yes I see evidence of a Group 4 car, nothing as yet that leads me to believe it is 2263? How do you come to that conclusion?
Were there any numbers stamped on the underside of the headlight buckets?
If there were they would be 263 or 63 !!!!
The right headlight bucket has been changed after the crash at Monza, and the left one has no number stamped on it.
Third part :
We have never denied that our car, the very first original factory De Tomaso Pantera Group 4 chassis 2263, had been stamped by the factory with a new number 8263 in 1979, when it was converted to a road car for the German importer.
We have kept that chassis number 8263 on the car today, because it is part of the history of the car and it would have been a nonsense to erase it.
That said, it is important to understand that 2263 did not have any chassis number stamped in 1972, but only had two unique riveted chassis plates to identify it.
The Pantera Group 4 had been officially introduced to the press on the 31st of January 1972. The car used for the official presentation was 2263. We have found professional pictures taken that day at the factory.
Please note that all black and white pictures that will follow are owned by the Klemantaski Collection. These pictures cannot be copied nor used by any means. They are here only for information purpose.
We have never denied that our car, the very first original factory De Tomaso Pantera Group 4 chassis 2263, had been stamped by the factory with a new number 8263 in 1979, when it was converted to a road car for the German importer.
We have kept that chassis number 8263 on the car today, because it is part of the history of the car and it would have been a nonsense to erase it.
That said, it is important to understand that 2263 did not have any chassis number stamped in 1972, but only had two unique riveted chassis plates to identify it.
The Pantera Group 4 had been officially introduced to the press on the 31st of January 1972. The car used for the official presentation was 2263. We have found professional pictures taken that day at the factory.
Please note that all black and white pictures that will follow are owned by the Klemantaski Collection. These pictures cannot be copied nor used by any means. They are here only for information purpose.
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The two unique chassis plates on a picture taken during the official Pantera Group 4 presentation on the 31st of January 1972 :
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The same picture zoomed.
These two plates are quite unique. First, it is easy to see that in 1972 the car was not fitted with the regular chassis plate of any De Tomaso Pantera. Secondly, there was no chassis number stamped on the footbox where it is usually present on a regular Pantera.
Instead there are a De Tomaso Vallelunga plate (on the left, looking at the picture), and a long plate (on the right, looking at the picture) on which the chassis number was probably stamped.
These two plates are quite unique. First, it is easy to see that in 1972 the car was not fitted with the regular chassis plate of any De Tomaso Pantera. Secondly, there was no chassis number stamped on the footbox where it is usually present on a regular Pantera.
Instead there are a De Tomaso Vallelunga plate (on the left, looking at the picture), and a long plate (on the right, looking at the picture) on which the chassis number was probably stamped.
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Now fast forward to 1979. 2263 was supposed to be destroyed after the agreement taken with the insurance company, but instead it was stored behind the factory since 1972. So as to build a GT5 road car demonstrator, the factory reused 2263, stamped it with a new number 8263 and put a regular Pantera plate on it.
Here it is, as found in 2016 :
Here it is, as found in 2016 :
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When we removed the plate, we discovered many holes and even rivets left on the footbox of our car. The following picture compares the period picture of the chassis plates (as published here above) with the footbox of our car found in 2016. There are not only the four holes corresponding to the regular chassis plate fitted in 1979 when the car was stamped with the new number 8263, there are also the holes drilled in 1972 to fit the Vallelunga plate as well as the holes (and rivets) for the long chassis plates where the chassis number was probably stamped.
This shows a strong evidence that our car is nothing else but the original factory Pantera Group 4 2263.
This shows a strong evidence that our car is nothing else but the original factory Pantera Group 4 2263.
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The weldings and unique reinforcement rear bars.
In the photo set from the January 1972 official presentation of the Group 4, there is a very interesting picture showing the engine compartment. It shows two reinforcement bars that are unique to 2263. They are still in our car today.
What seems like a bullet proof evidence that our car is 2263, is the shape of the weldings done in the engine bay around these bars. The weldings were poorly finished so that they have a random shape. You will see on the comparison picture between 1972 and today that our car still has the exact same weldings, with the same shape in the exact same place as 2263 in 1972.
This again shows a strong evidence that our car is nothing else but the original factory Pantera Group 4 2263.
In the photo set from the January 1972 official presentation of the Group 4, there is a very interesting picture showing the engine compartment. It shows two reinforcement bars that are unique to 2263. They are still in our car today.
What seems like a bullet proof evidence that our car is 2263, is the shape of the weldings done in the engine bay around these bars. The weldings were poorly finished so that they have a random shape. You will see on the comparison picture between 1972 and today that our car still has the exact same weldings, with the same shape in the exact same place as 2263 in 1972.
This again shows a strong evidence that our car is nothing else but the original factory Pantera Group 4 2263.
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The reinforcement bars and weldings :
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Another comparison of the weldings :
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