Yup, the black, t-boned Pantera discussed earlier on this forum is BAAACK.
Now on ebay, buy it now of $30K
some poor sucker is going to be very SAAAD.
View it here-
http://tinyurl.com/3xtu9a
Larry
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Wow, I saw that car on ebay today, and thought, would have been ok, if I hadn't already bought.
Sure looks nice 
Looks like after a tour of both southern coasts, 7001 has headed north again. I guess after this we'll see it in Washington to complete it's 4-corner tour of the States. Time for Larry to "sell" some more post-crash photos of 7001 on eBay.
I e-mailed the eBay seller and asked a few basic questions about the car. One was if it was ever in an accident. Let's see what he says.
Michael
Michael
Here is his exact reply:
"The ZF shifts great, The paint needs some minor touch up on the driver fender, It looks like it's been hit in the driver door and repaired before I got the car. The seats also need to be re-done. I have the car since the start of the summer and put about $3000 in parts into the car. It now runs great. Just got a 2004 Lambo and need the room"
Michael
"The ZF shifts great, The paint needs some minor touch up on the driver fender, It looks like it's been hit in the driver door and repaired before I got the car. The seats also need to be re-done. I have the car since the start of the summer and put about $3000 in parts into the car. It now runs great. Just got a 2004 Lambo and need the room"
Michael
At least he's straight forward about the hit to the door. You think he knows to what extent? I guess he likely found out since he's selling it so quickly!
He knows the history of the car. Warn your friends, wives and daughters.
Jim Cain
#5774
#5432
Jim Cain
#5774
#5432
It's off of E-bay.
You are all being presumptuous. Many cars have been brought back from the dead with absolutely no problems. That car was repairable.
It isn't like a previous owner just filled in all of the dents with body filler.
Hum. Maybe they did? Nah.
It isn't like a previous owner just filled in all of the dents with body filler.
Hum. Maybe they did? Nah.
Doug, many Pantera experts were consulted after the crash and they ALL said it was unrepairable. The larger issue was that the car had/has? serious RUST issues and as such wasn't worth repairing. It's nice to see someone has tried, and as long as the new buyers are fully aware, no harm done.
Anything is repairable. I have seen cars retored from just a bolt. The question would be if it was financially repairable.
If someone wanted to do $100,000 of work for free that's their business. I wouldn't.
It would be interested to see the quality or lack of quality that was done.
As far as wanting to own that car, I would prefer not to.
I find it difficult to believe that the current owner found the damage undetectable, but it is possible.
One of the values of a "World Registry" is to keep an independent history of vehicles to avoid misrepresentations on severly damaged vehicles, or title challenged ones.
Something to think about.
If someone wanted to do $100,000 of work for free that's their business. I wouldn't.
It would be interested to see the quality or lack of quality that was done.
As far as wanting to own that car, I would prefer not to.
I find it difficult to believe that the current owner found the damage undetectable, but it is possible.
One of the values of a "World Registry" is to keep an independent history of vehicles to avoid misrepresentations on severly damaged vehicles, or title challenged ones.
Something to think about.
quote:Time for Larry to "sell" some more post-crash photos of 7001 on eBay.
Done Deal --
http://tinyurl.com/26u5rb
NOTE - WHILE YESTERDAY'S LISTING WAS REMOVED
(SEEMS SOMEONE NOTIFIED EBAY THE SELLER WAS ACCEPTING WIRE TRANSFER PAYMENT)
IT IS AGAIN BACK ON EBAY --
http://tinyurl.com/29e5xj
And NO disclosure of the prior damage.
Larry
I saw this car a few months ago near sacramento, CA and its been prettied up since it was offered for sale in CA. Looks like more than a detail and polish has been done to try and sell it again. When I saw it had small cracks, dings, a marker light cover missing and it looked like the driver's side rear quarter panel was pushed in. Those things aren't obvious in the photos.
I saw the car before I saw the t-bone picture, and from walking around the car the extent of the previous damage was not obvious.
I agree with PanteraDoug that anything is repairable. Case in point is my friend's '53 Jag. The front end, including the frame was crumbled up like a ball of tissue paper. They built a new front section of frame, front end, and made new body panels from wooden bucks to restore the car. In the end, the owner could have bought a Concourse quality '53 Jag for less, but the owner is rich and sentimental and can do that.
I think if the repairs are legitimate there should be documentation and interested parties should get it up on a rack and have a professional check it out.
I saw the car before I saw the t-bone picture, and from walking around the car the extent of the previous damage was not obvious.
I agree with PanteraDoug that anything is repairable. Case in point is my friend's '53 Jag. The front end, including the frame was crumbled up like a ball of tissue paper. They built a new front section of frame, front end, and made new body panels from wooden bucks to restore the car. In the end, the owner could have bought a Concourse quality '53 Jag for less, but the owner is rich and sentimental and can do that.
I think if the repairs are legitimate there should be documentation and interested parties should get it up on a rack and have a professional check it out.
They're claiming a clear title. When the insurance comnpany totaled it out, it should have been issued a salvage title.
Hi, sorry to hijack here, How do you tell on a title if it is a 'clear' or 'salvage' title ?
The ad sounds weird, as it would have fresh paint due to the repair, yet he says the driver side needs minor paint repairs ?? must have hit it again !
The ad sounds weird, as it would have fresh paint due to the repair, yet he says the driver side needs minor paint repairs ?? must have hit it again !
quote:I agree with PanteraDoug that anything is repairable.
True enough.
The problem now, with THIS seller, is his failure to disclose the car's history - and he now knows very well what that is.
There are professional bondo meters that can actually measure the thickness of bondo. Any buyer of this car should find a restoration/body shop to do such testing.
My 2511 had extensive damage that shifted the entire front end by at least 3/4", tore the A-pillar apart and shattered the steering's R&P housing. But after the subsequent repair the car is still a one-finger car at 125 and most folks never notice anything amiss.
But come the time when my heirs sell (sure won't be ME) the car, I trust they will include those photos, and the photos of the repairs, to any potential seller - and do so from the beginning of listing it for sale.
Larry
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Well, if I had more time AND if the car was REALLY in Brooklyn (which I doubt), I'd go look at it.
I agree here with what all you guys are saying and I am just trying to make a point about repairs.
I have seen a couple of obviously very talented people with a chassis machine pop these unibody cars back.
It is absolutely amazing. You have to see it to believe it.
The fenders and door obviously were originally destroyed on the car. But the floor pans and roof can be popped out.
The hard part is not to get the unibody back, it is to get the deck to fit the roof. The original lines of the car are so fine that you are trying to meet perspective lines with the accuracy of a laser light.
As a matter of fact if you look at a lot of "original" Panteras, the decks cannot be made to meet the 1/4 roofs properly and still open.
The tolerences are just not there originally between the car and the decks. Check them out yourself.
When you do a new quarter panel, you alighn it with the "new" door" and front fender as a unit. It is possible to get the car tighter in this process then the factory did originally because you are bending eveything to fit.
All the experts were really saying is that for the probably $85k (or more)to go into it, it will only for sure bring $35k. The ODDS ARE that no one will do that.
If these cars brought $150k, then this car would have been rebuilt better then new. No one even needs to suggest it to me.
What a co-incidence that there is a picture of a damaged car that so resembles what is being sold? Small world.
I agree here with what all you guys are saying and I am just trying to make a point about repairs.
I have seen a couple of obviously very talented people with a chassis machine pop these unibody cars back.
It is absolutely amazing. You have to see it to believe it.
The fenders and door obviously were originally destroyed on the car. But the floor pans and roof can be popped out.
The hard part is not to get the unibody back, it is to get the deck to fit the roof. The original lines of the car are so fine that you are trying to meet perspective lines with the accuracy of a laser light.
As a matter of fact if you look at a lot of "original" Panteras, the decks cannot be made to meet the 1/4 roofs properly and still open.
The tolerences are just not there originally between the car and the decks. Check them out yourself.
When you do a new quarter panel, you alighn it with the "new" door" and front fender as a unit. It is possible to get the car tighter in this process then the factory did originally because you are bending eveything to fit.
All the experts were really saying is that for the probably $85k (or more)to go into it, it will only for sure bring $35k. The ODDS ARE that no one will do that.
If these cars brought $150k, then this car would have been rebuilt better then new. No one even needs to suggest it to me.
What a co-incidence that there is a picture of a damaged car that so resembles what is being sold? Small world.
If this car is really in Brooklyn I can go see it if anyone needs me to.
It might be but I think that is a scam listing currently.
Email the seller and find out if you can see it in person.
I would be surprized if you could, but wha' da' I know?
Email the seller and find out if you can see it in person.
I would be surprized if you could, but wha' da' I know?
Hey check this Warning out on the Bay!Click here: eBay Motors: WRECKED PANTERA PIX - VIN # 7001 - CURRENTLY FOR SALE (item 190165147500 end time Oct-27-07 15:50:57
quote:Originally posted by hayabusa:
Hey check this Warning out on the Bay!Click here: eBay Motors: WRECKED PANTERA PIX - VIN # 7001 - CURRENTLY FOR SALE (item 190165147500 end time Oct-27-07 15:50:57
Off the subject here, but does hayabusa stand for GSXR1300 Hayabusa?
quote:Originally posted by cat7195:
They're claiming a clear title. When the insurance comnpany totaled it out, it should have been issued a salvage title.
Some of these posts are missing the obvious:
Larry Finch (who posted several times on this thread) was the guy who listed the photos on eBay (as he did last time this car was auctioned) as a public service to future potential owners of 7001—which I think was a great thing to do—Thanks Larry!
The other issue here is not JUST the accident damage, which can be repaired by people with the right skills and equipment, but rather the extensive rust damage that was discovered by the former owner after the accident. He had been sold a "restored" car that was essentially a "tarted-up rust bucket" and that means there was probably structural issues beyond the accident damage. I agree, it could all be fixed, but not properly based on what was paid for the wreck, what has been added since and the price it's going for now.
The other point about "clear title" is that since this car was wrecked in Canada, the title does NOT carry that information across the border and that is why it can be sold in the US as "clear". If anyone tried to re-register it in Canada, the wrecked status would show up immediately. Too bad that the governments put so much effort into making sure that speeding ticket information is carried across the border, but important things like this are not.
According to Babel fish it's Chinese for peregrine falcon.
quote:Originally posted by JFFR:quote:Originally posted by hayabusa:
Hey check this Warning out on the Bay!Click here: eBay Motors: WRECKED PANTERA PIX - VIN # 7001 - CURRENTLY FOR SALE (item 190165147500 end time Oct-27-07 15:50:57
Off the subject here, but does hayabusa stand for GSXR1300 Hayabusa?
Yes Suzuki Hayabusa ,I use to own one.
quote:Originally posted by hayabusa:
Yes Suzuki Hayabusa ,I use to own one.
Good to hear from another Busa rider that is also into Panteras. I still have my 2003 Anniversary model, but don't get to ride it as much as I should.
quote:Originally posted by Husker:
According to Babel fish it's Chinese for peregrine falcon.quote:Originally posted by JFFR:quote:Originally posted by hayabusa:
Hey check this Warning out on the Bay!Click here: eBay Motors: WRECKED PANTERA PIX - VIN # 7001 - CURRENTLY FOR SALE (item 190165147500 end time Oct-27-07 15:50:57
Off the subject here, but does hayabusa stand for GSXR1300 Hayabusa?
Suzuki used the name Hayabusa because that falcon is claimed to be the fastest bird. Hop on a Hayabusa and snap the throttle at about 75 mph in sixth gear and you will find out what they are talking about.
Well, the car was sold for the $30K buy-it-now.
I have emailed the buyer with a heads up and links to two discussions on this forum.
Here's hoping he understands what he is buying and does a very good inspection.
I urged him to get someone from the Pantera community to inspect the car with him.
Hopefully we will hear from him?
Larry
I have emailed the buyer with a heads up and links to two discussions on this forum.
Here's hoping he understands what he is buying and does a very good inspection.
I urged him to get someone from the Pantera community to inspect the car with him.
Hopefully we will hear from him?
Larry
Yes, and here I am. Can someone help inspect the car? I am in China until Oct 29th, when I will return to Houston Texas. The seller says "NO RUST".
quote:Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:
Well, the car was sold for the $30K buy-it-now.
I have emailed the buyer with a heads up and links to two discussions on this forum.
Here's hoping he understands what he is buying and does a very good inspection.
I urged him to get someone from the Pantera community to inspect the car with him.
Hopefully we will hear from him?
Larry
With the damage that the car sustained, I'd hire a body shop to give it the once over and have them check it on a laser rack.
Hi Neal, welcome to the Forums.
I am curious to what the sellers comments were about the pics on ebay of the same car wrecked only a few months prior.
I am curious to what the sellers comments were about the pics on ebay of the same car wrecked only a few months prior.
quote:Well, the car was sold for the $30K buy-it-now.
I have emailed the buyer with a heads up and links to two discussions on this forum.
Here's hoping he understands what he is buying and does a very good inspection.
I urged him to get someone from the Pantera community to inspect the car with him.
Hopefully we will hear from him?
Larry
Hey Guys help me bring this car back into the fold! As long as it is not a rust bucket, I will be okay, even if I have to cut out and replact the rear quarter, ect.,ect.
Thanks for your support. P.S. I will do the wire transfer to an escrow account.
This is the SELLERS CONTACT INFOquote:Hi Neal, welcome to the Forums.
I am curious to what the sellers comments were about the pics on ebay of the same car wrecked only a few months prior.
Posts: 85 | Location: Melbourne Australia | Registered: July 29, 2007
Ignored post by v8capri posted October 23, 2007 09:37 PM Show Post
nealkeith Posted October 23, 2007 09:57 PM Hide Post
quote:
Well, the car was sold for the $30K buy-it-now.
I have emailed the buyer with a heads up and links to two discussions on this forum.
Here's hoping he understands what he is buying and does a very good inspection.
I urged him to get someone from the Pantera community to inspect the car with him.
Hopefully we will hear from him?
Larry
Hey Guys help me bring this car back into the fold! As long as it is not a rust bucket, I will be okay, even if I have to cut out and replact the rear quarter, ect.,ect.
Thanks for your support. P.S. I will do the wire transfer to an escrow account.
William Pokora 270 12Th street Brooklyn New York 11215 Phone# 718-788-1730 Cell# 646-372-3416
This is all a bad joke right?
quote:This is all a bad joke right?
No, it is NOT.
Neal has bought the car.
He now needs one of you east coast - NJ or NY guys - to step up and join him in one intense inspection of this car prior to him taking possession.
I've contacted Andrew - the Canadian owner - and hope to get him involved in this matter. He is the one who found the rust issues after the accident.
Who has a body shop - or access - to one of the high dollar scanners that can determine the thickness of bondo hidden under the paint?
Larry
I would think that one would examine the car BEFORE one purchases it? Doesn't that make sense?
Brooklyn is not down the block from me. Maybe Detomasos & Delorians will want to look at it. He is in Queens. PM him.
What good is having anyone other then a high roller resto shop "examine" it is beyond me. (No offense intended to you D & D). Those are the guys you want to hear from. A Ferari shop from the "Island" maybe.
I would personally expect this to be a quite expensive physical examination. No one is going to do a consult for free on it. How do you intend to make the seller cooperative?
I have done this in the past and it was a threatening experience. I don't like looking at the owners gun collection.
Personally I would take the negative Ebay feedback and walk away.
Buy something that is backed by someone with integraty like PI.
Why buy a $30,000 bill of goods and find out it isn't worth half of that?
It was my understanding that it already had some kind of a low ball junk yard engine in it when Canadian Andrew sold it. He took the killer engine out of it.
If it was really a nice car would it keep coming up on Ebay?
As far as examining the sheetmetal work, YOU CAN'T without taking the car apart. The gas tank conceals the 1/4 panel. The front tire has to be removed.
The carpets have to be pulled up and probably the headliner removed.
The owner is going to agree to this?
Are you guys kidding or what?
Brooklyn is not down the block from me. Maybe Detomasos & Delorians will want to look at it. He is in Queens. PM him.
What good is having anyone other then a high roller resto shop "examine" it is beyond me. (No offense intended to you D & D). Those are the guys you want to hear from. A Ferari shop from the "Island" maybe.
I would personally expect this to be a quite expensive physical examination. No one is going to do a consult for free on it. How do you intend to make the seller cooperative?
I have done this in the past and it was a threatening experience. I don't like looking at the owners gun collection.
Personally I would take the negative Ebay feedback and walk away.
Buy something that is backed by someone with integraty like PI.
Why buy a $30,000 bill of goods and find out it isn't worth half of that?
It was my understanding that it already had some kind of a low ball junk yard engine in it when Canadian Andrew sold it. He took the killer engine out of it.
If it was really a nice car would it keep coming up on Ebay?
As far as examining the sheetmetal work, YOU CAN'T without taking the car apart. The gas tank conceals the 1/4 panel. The front tire has to be removed.
The carpets have to be pulled up and probably the headliner removed.
The owner is going to agree to this?
Are you guys kidding or what?
It's also got a laundered title. Don't walk away. RUN AWAY.
Ditto to all that above and confirm that the escrow account company is for real. My buddy almost got scammed buying a high-dollar boat on e-bay via an escrow account that was a fraud. Show up yourself with the cash and make sure what you are getting, or at least a representative you trust. Definitely contact the canadian owner and find out where the rust was and I would confront the seller with the t-boned pic and lack of disclosure. Unless $30K is pocket change for you....
Mike DeGonis of MD Engineering is the man to contact. His shop is on the Van Wyck Expwy service road in Queens. It's a hop, skip, and a jump from Brooklyn.
De and De may have to go there (if, of course, he can) and get the phone number personally because I did a quick internet search and came up empty. He can give the phone number to nealkeith who can then ask the seller to take the car to Mike DeGonnis for an inspection.
I think that's his best bet.
Michael
De and De may have to go there (if, of course, he can) and get the phone number personally because I did a quick internet search and came up empty. He can give the phone number to nealkeith who can then ask the seller to take the car to Mike DeGonnis for an inspection.
I think that's his best bet.
Michael