Pantera Front Tire Survey - Please Respond

To get the ball rolling, I’ll share what I know.

A 215/60R15 tire, mounted on an OEM 15x7 wheel, having 6mm off-set, has no rubbing issues

A 225/50R15 tire, mounted on an OEM 15x7 wheel, having 6mm off-set, has no rubbing issues

A 225/50R15 tire, mounted on an OEM 15x8 wheels, having 19mm off-set, has no rubbing issues either.

A 235/40R17 tire, mounted on a Precision Proformance (?) 17x8 Campy wheel, having unknown back spacing or off-set, had no rubbing issues

However, a 245/40R17 tire mounted on the same wheel rubbed its inner edge in the inner wheel house. It had also been reported to rub badly on loaded turns, but I’m uncertain what that means.

A 245/40R17 tire mounted on a 17x9 Etoile 3 piece wheel rubbed the inner edge during full lock maneuvers. No other rubbing issues. The backspacing measured 5-3/4”, keeping in mind this 3 piece wheel had tire bead flanges which were thinner than ½ inch; the backspacing was therefore equivalent to 6.00” computed backspacing. Therefore the wheel had 25mm off-set.

A 245/35R18 tire mounted on a 18x9 HRE 3 piece wheel rubbed the inner edge during full lock maneuvers. No other rubbing issues. The wheel was specified as having 25mm off-set. The backspacing also measured 5-3/4”, keeping in mind this 3 piece wheel also had tire bead flanges thinner than ½ inch, the backspacing was therefore equivalent to 6.00” computed backspacing.

A 245/35R18 tire mounted on an aftermarket 18x8.5 3 piece wheel “rubbed just a little due to body roll in the corners”. I assume this means the outer edge of the tire was rubbing the outer fender. The owner claimed the wheel had 4.75” backspacing and “almost” zero off-set. Being a 3 piece wheel, I believe this wheel had what is equivalent to 5.00” computed backspacing and therefore 6mm off-set.

quote:

A 235/40R17 tire, mounted on a Precision Proformance (?) 17x8 Campy wheel, having unknown back spacing or off-set, had no rubbing issues

This has been my experience over the past ten years. No rubbing under normal daily driving, my car is a daily driver with no track days and my front tires have never touched my car.

George,

I have three-piece HRE 17x9.0" front wheels with 245/40-17 tires. My wheels have 22mm offset and the tires rub very slightly on the passenger side inner fender when the steering is at full lock towards that side. I have no rubbing on the outer side at all, although my fender lips are rolled. I should also mention, my tires are Hoosier R6's, which are wider than most 245/40-17 street tires.

To the best of my knowledge, any of the Boyd Coddington Campi clone wheels use the same offset (see box label, below), regardless of width or diameter. I say "any" of the Boyd Coddington Campi clone wheels because they make a few (slight) variations of that wheel, for a few different Pantera parts vendors.

Dave

My older 245-50x 15" Goodyear V-rated front tires are 6X oversized from stock 185-70 x15", but on unaltered 8" Campys. They do NOT rub rolled fender lips. They DO rub in multiple places on both inner fender panels- more so on the left than on the right (many Panteras have slightly asymmetric body/chassis). The car has non-stock coil-overs, no spacers and non-stock front ride height & caster, all of which affect tire-to-body clearance.

The left cowl drain tube needed flattening and the right side wiper shield needed rework for clearance. The extreme front-bottom of the right outer fender lip rubbed, needing light massage. All this only happens in full-lock turns under power such as one sees in autocrossing or open track, with one person & no luggage or tools or other debris aboard.

quote:

Originally posted by PLT-1:

... my car is a daily driver ...

George

quote:

A 215/60R15 tire, mounted on an OEM 15x7 wheel, having 6mm off-set, has no rubbing issues

Not sure why but I have rubbing issues on the right front fender of my rather stockish 1973 #5891 with 215/60 15 BF Goodrich Radial TA (on OEM 7" Campis).

No signs of an accident or any other structrural damage on my car.

Wolfgang

Wolfgang -

Are your fender lips rolled back?

Do you play baseball in Germany? I understand that is a key element for the procedure, having a baseball bat.

See you in TX.

Rocky - a.k.a. Chuck

Chuck,
we play baseball over here but we aren´t really good....
So my fender lips are still original and not rolled back (as far as I understand). How do they look when rolled back?
Wolfgang

Besides rolling the fender lip, other things that can contribute to whether or not a tire will rub include the shape of the sidewall(some are more rounded, others are "square shouldered"), front wheel camber adjustment and the vehicle's ride height.

Wolfgang, thanks for contributing, I want to know about rubbing issues, the exceptions and the rules.

Now that the labor day weekend is over I hope more of you will chime in.

OK

I'll get more specific

Does anybody have any experience mounting 245mm tires on the front of their standard body Pantera, using wheels with less than 22mm off-set. If so, what was your experience as far as fitment & rubbing?

Has anybody ever measured the backspacing or computed the off-set of their front Campy clone wheels? What did you measure? Did the measurement agree with the manufacturer's data, invoice, the label on the box, etc?

I'll chime in here, just to keep the momentum going...

Not that anyone would expect issues...

A 205/60R15 tire (BF Goodrich Radial T/A), mounted on an OEM 15x7 wheel, having 6mm off-set, has no rubbing issues.

Note: I still have the stock spacers in the front. I have been meaning to remove those! The top half of my wheel arch is rolled back.

I assume my wheel is OEM, as it has a "73" date code cast into the back side.

Here's a picture of how it looks.

Chuck,
ahh, forgot to mention: I have already removed the spacers. No change: In my case the 215/60 15 Radial TA are rubbing both with and without spacers.
Wolfgang

This week I had to decide on new rims and tires for my 1968 Camaro. I was greatly helped by camaros.net, that have a thread that deals only with 1968 Camaros and aftermarket wheels. People then post their pictures, but are only allowed to do that, if they in the text state rim size including backspacing and tire brand and size, and whether they rub and in what situation and whether any modifications to suspension or body has been done. Spent an hour looking through that thread, it helped me choose the rims and tires and sizes I want.

Maybe we should do something similar for Pantera?

255/40/17 rub, a lot.
They're mounted on 17 x 9 (I think) Etoile 455s. Back spacing is unknown at this time. Tires are kuhmos.

quote:

Originally posted by tajon:

255/40/17 rub, a lot ...

Jon, where do they rub?

• Does the inner edge of the tire rub the inner wheel house during full lock maneuvers.
• Does the outer edge of the tire rub the outer fender when encountering bumps.
• Does the outer edge of the tire rub the outer fender during “vigorous” cornering

I thought this was about aftermarket wheels?

I have P7 Pirelli, 225-50x15 on my original 8" Campi's (originally on the back). Removed spring spacers. Stocks springs. No rubbing anywhere.

Fender lips appear to be rolled from the factory.

The only drawback is the car is LOW in the front. On the other hand, the advantage is it is LOW! Kinda' like an Italian go cart?

Note- factory or other fender-lip-rolling only affects the front inner fender flanges for about a 30 degree section in the middle of the fender. On mine, and it appears- Wolfgang's, one rub is on the extreme bottom of the lower front fender opening. So 'rolling' the fender lip in that area does nothing. Fixing that rub requires the whole fender flare to be slightly reshaped outwards to relieve that interference.

Modifying the upper front control arms to increase caster would rotate the tire/wheel away from that front edge of the fender, a bit. It centers the tire/wheel better within the fender arch. Ford's upper control arm modification to reduce caster is what pushed the front tires forward!

The 215/60R15 tire is 25.2" in diameter, a smaller diameter tire would also create some clearance (225/50R15 = 23.9 diameter, 205/60R15 = 24.7 diameter)

I like that tire, 225-50x15, for a lot of reasons. This, clearance, is one of them. Bosswrench pointed out in the past that the car still understeers with it vs a 235 or 245. I won't argue but those tires will rub. A little understeer just makes you slow a bit in a turn. That's ok.

Yes, caster setting actually needs to be reset to avoid clearance issue in the lower front. Absolutely.

The more positive caster that you set into the car though, the more difficult it is to steer.

Bosswrench was autocrossing the car. I don't.

You need to consider all these factors in selecting a front tire. There will be compromise no matter which you select.

If you go to a Gp4 configuration in the front, you will be putting a lot of jouncing in the steering that cannot be dialed out.

Something else to consider, if I mount my same 225-50x15, on the 7" Cami instead of the 8", it changes the profile of the tire a bit. I dont know if it is enough to create interference, but it is possible. The 8" rim is stretching the tire to its recommened limit. Just for jollies I will tape the od and see if it comes up to what Pirelli speced for the tire?