Well said!
Consider the Standards at Concorso Italiano. Are We just hot rodders, because we generally don't qualify under "Concours" standards. This goes to desireability for true enthusiasts of a Marque, collectors and afficionadoes.
Lou's comments are correct, but only from a certain point of view. I would enjoy meeting a person and seeing a car that was subject to a 50k or 100k restoration. Unfortunately, while I have seen several cars treated to large dollar treatments, none were restored, that is to stock condition.
We have got to be honest about this, the Pantera gets heavily modified from original condition, becaust it can get modified. Who puts a 351 "Cleavor" in a Ferrari? Nobody because you can't.
Below are comments about what constitutes a restored car as applied by the Pebble Beach Concours, and written by Paul Woudenberg.
PAUL WOUDENBERG
Last year I walked with a friend across the Concours show field, looking at car after car that seemed absolutely perfect. My friend was overwhelmed and asked, "How can a judge possibly pick a winner from this field?" It was a good question because the quality of cars at Pebble Beach can only be described in superlatives. And yet a winner must be chosen. This is the dilemma faced every year by the judges, all eminent specialists in their fields. Their choice is based perhaps on three primary considerations.
Historical Authenticity
First, no matter how good the cars appear at first glance, they are not all perfect. The intensely focused inspection of learned judges often uncovers slight errors in the historical accuracy of a restoration. Body parts, interiors, high tension cables, spark plugs, radiator caps, and hose clamps are all scrutinized carefully. Overtly visible errors, such as the use of modern fabrics or materials, are spotted instantly. The substitution of a replacement part not quite like the original in the engine compartment is fatal. Replacement parts may be new as
long as they are of the same substance and style as the original, but woe to the restorer who succumbs to a new technology, who substitutes something modern for what was authentic to a car in its day.
A good restoration takes this into consideration; it rests on attention to accurate historic detail. And good judging ferrets out the errors of detail that defeat many potential winners.
Overrestoration
A related consideration is overrestoration. Overrestoration is difficult to define directly, but it generally involves an attempt to make something into something more than it was initially, an attempt to better it. This is seen most obviously in matters of presentation, in choice of paint and plating.
Colors inappropriate to both the year and body style still appear at Pebble Beach. Such cars might be restored to very high levels of craftsmanship, and they may be beautiful indeed. But they may shout "Look at Me" too readily.
Of course, certain cars deserve a dazzling paint job. From October 9 to 16, 1926, the Don Lee Cadillac Company at Seventh and Bixel Streets in Los Angeles presented a gorgeous display of Cadillacs in new and bright colors; it advertised "500 color combinations on 50 body styles." A cream colored roadster with khaki fenders and valances and orange wheels caught one's eye. An Alice Green convertible coupe with dark green fenders and orange wheels was also on display. But the formal town cabriolet was a deep blue with black fenders, and the sedan was a solid dark green. Don Lee might sell some bright roadsters in sunny California, but customers in Cleveland and Boston, and even the majority of residents of Los Angeles, would stick with those safe blues and blacks.
Chrome, too, can be a temptation. Cadillac introduced chrome plating in 1929 and it quickly spread throughout General Motors and then the industry. Nickle, with its lovely warm hue, had had a soft richness that was appealing, but when that super-hard
blue-white of chromium came along, which needed little polishing and which seemed to last forever, nickle quickly became pass. Few owners chrome inappropriately on cars that predate 1929, but on later cars, there's a tendancy to chrome everything, including parts such as water pipes and electrical conduits that weren't chromed originally. Chrome wire wheels appear in such abundance today that one is tempted to think that all classic cars had plated wheels. Yes, chrome wire wheels were possible as the problems of embrittlement were solved, but they were rare.
The problem is compounded when owners add whitewalls to chrome-plated wheels. Such a combination again shouts "Look at Me" too readily. Strother MacMinn, who served as Chief Honorary Judge at Pebble Beach for twenty-five years, always maintained that a car could have chrome wheels or white sidewalls, but not both; he felt the eye was so drawn to the combination of whitewall and chrome wheel that the general line of a car, its balance as a whole, was distorted.
Style
Now let us suppose that one has restored a car to perfection, maintaining historical authenticity and resisting the seduction of overrestoration. There is yet one other factor involved in winning at Pebble Beach, and it is the most important factor of all.
The Pebble Beach Concours is a matter of style, as Bob Devlin so perfectly put it in the title of his 1979 book on the show. Style is an elusive quality, often mistakenly identified with the term "classic." There are many classic cars which are not very stylist. Such classics are beautifully built and finished to perfection, but they are not really "pretty." Think of the formal sedans of the early thirties - cars build to unbelievable high standards - and then compare such great cars to the sportier models of the same make. Compare a 1934 Packard 12 1107 sedan and a 1934 Packard 12 LeBaron runabout speedster. That LeBaron runabout draws the eye to it, even if it's painted a somber black and has plain wheels and tires. The sedan is very nice, too, but it would be a most unlikely choice for Best of Show.
The judges at Pebble Beach seek not
only perfection in restoration and presentation; they seek that elusive quality of style which sets a car apart from other cars of the same period. For that matter, they seek that car which is superior to other cars in style regardless of period.
An analysis of past Pebble Beach Best of Show winners reveals how the judges think. The winners since 1955 may be analyzed in many ways. Marques with multiple wins include:
Bugatti - 8
Duesenberg - 5
Mercedes-Benz - 5
Rolls-Royce - 5
Packard - 3
Chrysler - 2
Daimler - 2
Hispano-Suiza - 2
Isotta Fraschini - 2
Pierce-Arrow - 2
Of the above winners, only 12 or 13 have been closed cars. Some 33 have been open cars. Clearly a convertible has a better chance of defining that elusive quality of "style" at any given show.
The Bugatti remains the exception to the convertible bias. Of the eight winning Bugattis no less than five have been closed Type 57s, and four of those have been the low supercharged SC models. There is something bewitching about those wonderful Type 57SCs that makes them impossible to ignore. Their low French swoop, found also in the Talbot-Lago Figoni et Falaschi Coup that won in 1997, seems to express the pinnacle of "style."
The importance of style at Pebble Beach is backed by the fact that no antique has ever won there, with the sole exception of Alton Walker's 1913 Rolls-Royce Silver Ghost Tourer, which took Best of Show in 1962. Cars in the antique period were masterpieces of engineering, able to perform mechanically to astonishing levels even by present-day standards. Yet the question of style was only beginning to be a factor in car design. Bodywork was solid, functional, and tough - but lacking the subtleties of style which would be the hallmark of the classic period.
By 1918, a very few cars - such as the Roamer, the Mercer, and the odd little Velie sport car with external exhaust pipes through the hood - were experimenting with production "styling." Yet there were wonderful and rare exceptions from the old coachbuilding companies such as Fleetwood and Brewster. Coachbuilding houses rapidly moved into automotive work in the early twenties, and by the mid-twenties, the great classic marques, such as Packard, were finding the proportions that would mark the pinnacle of the classic period in the early thirties.
The present focus of the Pebble Beach Concours is on the decade of the thirties, with the heaviest emphasis on the great classics at the beginning of that decade. Will this change as time goes on? In the year 2050, when we celebrate our hundredth anniversary, will we still be convinced that the greatest cars were built in the 1930s? Perhaps. Rest assured that those cars will still be here!
The best clues to the future will be found in the subtle changes that occur in class definitions as the years unroll. end quote.
So,when a guy says he has a '74 L GT5 conversion. It's really just a '74L, heavily modified and customized and should be listed as such. No way listed as a GT5!! It's time to call a spade a spade instead of the well intentioned "puffery" we so often see.
Lou's comments are correct, but only from a certain point of view. I would enjoy meeting a person and seeing a car that was subject to a 50k or 100k restoration. Unfortunately, while I have seen several cars treated to large dollar treatments, none were restored, that is to stock condition.
We have got to be honest about this, the Pantera gets heavily modified from original condition, becaust it can get modified. Who puts a 351 "Cleavor" in a Ferrari? Nobody because you can't.
Below are comments about what constitutes a restored car as applied by the Pebble Beach Concours, and written by Paul Woudenberg.
PAUL WOUDENBERG
Last year I walked with a friend across the Concours show field, looking at car after car that seemed absolutely perfect. My friend was overwhelmed and asked, "How can a judge possibly pick a winner from this field?" It was a good question because the quality of cars at Pebble Beach can only be described in superlatives. And yet a winner must be chosen. This is the dilemma faced every year by the judges, all eminent specialists in their fields. Their choice is based perhaps on three primary considerations.
Historical Authenticity
First, no matter how good the cars appear at first glance, they are not all perfect. The intensely focused inspection of learned judges often uncovers slight errors in the historical accuracy of a restoration. Body parts, interiors, high tension cables, spark plugs, radiator caps, and hose clamps are all scrutinized carefully. Overtly visible errors, such as the use of modern fabrics or materials, are spotted instantly. The substitution of a replacement part not quite like the original in the engine compartment is fatal. Replacement parts may be new as
long as they are of the same substance and style as the original, but woe to the restorer who succumbs to a new technology, who substitutes something modern for what was authentic to a car in its day.
A good restoration takes this into consideration; it rests on attention to accurate historic detail. And good judging ferrets out the errors of detail that defeat many potential winners.
Overrestoration
A related consideration is overrestoration. Overrestoration is difficult to define directly, but it generally involves an attempt to make something into something more than it was initially, an attempt to better it. This is seen most obviously in matters of presentation, in choice of paint and plating.
Colors inappropriate to both the year and body style still appear at Pebble Beach. Such cars might be restored to very high levels of craftsmanship, and they may be beautiful indeed. But they may shout "Look at Me" too readily.
Of course, certain cars deserve a dazzling paint job. From October 9 to 16, 1926, the Don Lee Cadillac Company at Seventh and Bixel Streets in Los Angeles presented a gorgeous display of Cadillacs in new and bright colors; it advertised "500 color combinations on 50 body styles." A cream colored roadster with khaki fenders and valances and orange wheels caught one's eye. An Alice Green convertible coupe with dark green fenders and orange wheels was also on display. But the formal town cabriolet was a deep blue with black fenders, and the sedan was a solid dark green. Don Lee might sell some bright roadsters in sunny California, but customers in Cleveland and Boston, and even the majority of residents of Los Angeles, would stick with those safe blues and blacks.
Chrome, too, can be a temptation. Cadillac introduced chrome plating in 1929 and it quickly spread throughout General Motors and then the industry. Nickle, with its lovely warm hue, had had a soft richness that was appealing, but when that super-hard
blue-white of chromium came along, which needed little polishing and which seemed to last forever, nickle quickly became pass. Few owners chrome inappropriately on cars that predate 1929, but on later cars, there's a tendancy to chrome everything, including parts such as water pipes and electrical conduits that weren't chromed originally. Chrome wire wheels appear in such abundance today that one is tempted to think that all classic cars had plated wheels. Yes, chrome wire wheels were possible as the problems of embrittlement were solved, but they were rare.
The problem is compounded when owners add whitewalls to chrome-plated wheels. Such a combination again shouts "Look at Me" too readily. Strother MacMinn, who served as Chief Honorary Judge at Pebble Beach for twenty-five years, always maintained that a car could have chrome wheels or white sidewalls, but not both; he felt the eye was so drawn to the combination of whitewall and chrome wheel that the general line of a car, its balance as a whole, was distorted.
Style
Now let us suppose that one has restored a car to perfection, maintaining historical authenticity and resisting the seduction of overrestoration. There is yet one other factor involved in winning at Pebble Beach, and it is the most important factor of all.
The Pebble Beach Concours is a matter of style, as Bob Devlin so perfectly put it in the title of his 1979 book on the show. Style is an elusive quality, often mistakenly identified with the term "classic." There are many classic cars which are not very stylist. Such classics are beautifully built and finished to perfection, but they are not really "pretty." Think of the formal sedans of the early thirties - cars build to unbelievable high standards - and then compare such great cars to the sportier models of the same make. Compare a 1934 Packard 12 1107 sedan and a 1934 Packard 12 LeBaron runabout speedster. That LeBaron runabout draws the eye to it, even if it's painted a somber black and has plain wheels and tires. The sedan is very nice, too, but it would be a most unlikely choice for Best of Show.
The judges at Pebble Beach seek not
only perfection in restoration and presentation; they seek that elusive quality of style which sets a car apart from other cars of the same period. For that matter, they seek that car which is superior to other cars in style regardless of period.
An analysis of past Pebble Beach Best of Show winners reveals how the judges think. The winners since 1955 may be analyzed in many ways. Marques with multiple wins include:
Bugatti - 8
Duesenberg - 5
Mercedes-Benz - 5
Rolls-Royce - 5
Packard - 3
Chrysler - 2
Daimler - 2
Hispano-Suiza - 2
Isotta Fraschini - 2
Pierce-Arrow - 2
Of the above winners, only 12 or 13 have been closed cars. Some 33 have been open cars. Clearly a convertible has a better chance of defining that elusive quality of "style" at any given show.
The Bugatti remains the exception to the convertible bias. Of the eight winning Bugattis no less than five have been closed Type 57s, and four of those have been the low supercharged SC models. There is something bewitching about those wonderful Type 57SCs that makes them impossible to ignore. Their low French swoop, found also in the Talbot-Lago Figoni et Falaschi Coup that won in 1997, seems to express the pinnacle of "style."
The importance of style at Pebble Beach is backed by the fact that no antique has ever won there, with the sole exception of Alton Walker's 1913 Rolls-Royce Silver Ghost Tourer, which took Best of Show in 1962. Cars in the antique period were masterpieces of engineering, able to perform mechanically to astonishing levels even by present-day standards. Yet the question of style was only beginning to be a factor in car design. Bodywork was solid, functional, and tough - but lacking the subtleties of style which would be the hallmark of the classic period.
By 1918, a very few cars - such as the Roamer, the Mercer, and the odd little Velie sport car with external exhaust pipes through the hood - were experimenting with production "styling." Yet there were wonderful and rare exceptions from the old coachbuilding companies such as Fleetwood and Brewster. Coachbuilding houses rapidly moved into automotive work in the early twenties, and by the mid-twenties, the great classic marques, such as Packard, were finding the proportions that would mark the pinnacle of the classic period in the early thirties.
The present focus of the Pebble Beach Concours is on the decade of the thirties, with the heaviest emphasis on the great classics at the beginning of that decade. Will this change as time goes on? In the year 2050, when we celebrate our hundredth anniversary, will we still be convinced that the greatest cars were built in the 1930s? Perhaps. Rest assured that those cars will still be here!
The best clues to the future will be found in the subtle changes that occur in class definitions as the years unroll. end quote.
So,when a guy says he has a '74 L GT5 conversion. It's really just a '74L, heavily modified and customized and should be listed as such. No way listed as a GT5!! It's time to call a spade a spade instead of the well intentioned "puffery" we so often see.
Since I have purchased a Pantera, I have come to realize they are all worth over $100K...Let the $$$ appreciation begin!
By the way, a Corvette?!?! Gimme a break, a car that 300,000 others own and you see all day long...yawn. I thought about that car before selecting the Pantera and those were my thoughts. Relative to the Pantera community...I found it to be simply outstanding as are probably most enthusists societies.
Mad Pup
By the way, a Corvette?!?! Gimme a break, a car that 300,000 others own and you see all day long...yawn. I thought about that car before selecting the Pantera and those were my thoughts. Relative to the Pantera community...I found it to be simply outstanding as are probably most enthusists societies.
Mad Pup
ELVIS PANTERA WENT FOR $1MILLION TO PETERSON PUBLISHING CO. AND IT SOLD FOR $150K IN PALM SPRINGS 10 YEARS EARLIER AT 111 AND SUNNY DUNES ROAD ARZANOS VITAGE 111 CAR SALES. THE CAR EVEN GOT RID OF MOST OF THE BULLET HOLES EXCEPT THE STEERING WHEEL.
I OWN JOHN WAYNES 1954 CORVETTE ANY TAKERS @ $500K?
I OWN JOHN WAYNES 1954 CORVETTE ANY TAKERS @ $500K?
As I posted on another thread, while the Pantera has for the most part been maintaining its value(maybe even rising some), some other cars like Ferrari 308s, Testarossas, Boxers, Porsche Turbos, keep getting cheaper. Any thoughts on this? Maybe because they are way more expensive to maintain and fragile in comparison?
I HAVE TRULY READ ALL OF THIS WITH GREAT INTEREST AN IF THIS IS EVER TO BE SEEN THEN I HOPE IT WILL BE AT THE TOP AND NOT THE BOTTOM.
I purchased a new, Silver 1972 in early 1973. I went to visit a friend of mine in Chicago awho owns an original 1965 427 Cobra. We went to dineer in my car and when we came out we took a taxi back to his hosue as my new Pantera had been stolen. Five years ago I purchased a 1972 Silver Pantera with 7,500 original miles. It was purchased on a whim while I was in Atlanta on business and was listed in the paper for $35,000. I paid $25,000. At 10,000 miles it still has the original plugs, points, wires etc. As far as I am concerned I got one of the deals of the century. I am in process of many upgrades (cooling, AC, shocks, GT5 works brakes, cross drilled rotors, and larger wheels. Looking for the rear louvers and I am going to french in a recess the front lights and get them undr glass as well. Why? Because I want to and I can. There is no other SUPER CAR in the world that you can get for the price of a good Pantera and I have other cars from which I can make this comparison. Dollar for dollar there is not a more fun automobile to drive and I am happy to say mine is totally rust free and everything works. I just want it to work better and more like it is in the 2003 and not 1972.
The biggest problem is that most are not familiar with the car or what it is capable of. A friend helped me get my 67 E back home (lost a fan belt, and piece of metal from the water pump pully) He asked to look at my other cars. I asked if he would like to go for a 'thank you ride' in any of them and he picked the Pantera. On a four lane from Thomasville, GA to the Florida line in one spot I took the car up to 170 mph (on the speedometer actual speed I am sure was different) at 5600 RPM. When he asked how fast and I told him he replied. "IT didn't feel like we were going faster than 70 or 80. This is the fastest that I have ever been." I asked if he would like to drive back to Thomasville and he did. "How fast can I drive?" He asked. "It's your ticket, as fast as you want." He took it to 145 and said it felt like 35 to 40 in other cars. That was a year ago and everytime I see him he tells me how much more he has saved towards the purchase of a Pantera. He is now up to $17,000 and figures he will start to look when he has$40,000. But his smile that day will always be priceless. I plan on being buried in mine! "Who sez you can't take it with you?"
------------------
I purchased a new, Silver 1972 in early 1973. I went to visit a friend of mine in Chicago awho owns an original 1965 427 Cobra. We went to dineer in my car and when we came out we took a taxi back to his hosue as my new Pantera had been stolen. Five years ago I purchased a 1972 Silver Pantera with 7,500 original miles. It was purchased on a whim while I was in Atlanta on business and was listed in the paper for $35,000. I paid $25,000. At 10,000 miles it still has the original plugs, points, wires etc. As far as I am concerned I got one of the deals of the century. I am in process of many upgrades (cooling, AC, shocks, GT5 works brakes, cross drilled rotors, and larger wheels. Looking for the rear louvers and I am going to french in a recess the front lights and get them undr glass as well. Why? Because I want to and I can. There is no other SUPER CAR in the world that you can get for the price of a good Pantera and I have other cars from which I can make this comparison. Dollar for dollar there is not a more fun automobile to drive and I am happy to say mine is totally rust free and everything works. I just want it to work better and more like it is in the 2003 and not 1972.
The biggest problem is that most are not familiar with the car or what it is capable of. A friend helped me get my 67 E back home (lost a fan belt, and piece of metal from the water pump pully) He asked to look at my other cars. I asked if he would like to go for a 'thank you ride' in any of them and he picked the Pantera. On a four lane from Thomasville, GA to the Florida line in one spot I took the car up to 170 mph (on the speedometer actual speed I am sure was different) at 5600 RPM. When he asked how fast and I told him he replied. "IT didn't feel like we were going faster than 70 or 80. This is the fastest that I have ever been." I asked if he would like to drive back to Thomasville and he did. "How fast can I drive?" He asked. "It's your ticket, as fast as you want." He took it to 145 and said it felt like 35 to 40 in other cars. That was a year ago and everytime I see him he tells me how much more he has saved towards the purchase of a Pantera. He is now up to $17,000 and figures he will start to look when he has$40,000. But his smile that day will always be priceless. I plan on being buried in mine! "Who sez you can't take it with you?"
------------------
On a four lane from Thomasville, GA to the Florida line in one spot I took the car up to 170 mph (on the speedometer actual speed I am sure was different) at 5600 RPM. When he asked how fast and I told him he replied. "IT didn't feel like we were going faster than 70 or 80. This is the fastest that I have ever been." I asked if he would like to drive back to Thomasville and he did. "How fast can I drive?" He asked. "It's your ticket, as fast as you want." He took it to 145 and said it felt like 35 to 40 in other cars.
MAYBE IT WAS ONLY GOING 35 - 40? GEARING PROBLEM? THIS MAY BE WHY REAL SUPERCARS ARE SUPERIOR, BECAUSE PANTERAS ARE REALLY SLOWER.
MAYBE IT WAS ONLY GOING 35 - 40? GEARING PROBLEM? THIS MAY BE WHY REAL SUPERCARS ARE SUPERIOR, BECAUSE PANTERAS ARE REALLY SLOWER.
Maybe the previous post was by a "real supercar" owner? I for one would be glad to run my old 72 against any "supercar" of the same era.
Now speed im sorry i accidently cut off your little nutty buddies with the buzz saw on the Mach 5,but thats no excuse to get mad at the nice Pantera people.Oh,your brother Racer X said he will have Trixie back tommorow after breakfast.
"He took it to 145 and said it felt like 35 to 40 in other cars."
All I am saying for the above statement of the other post is that he obviousely has some serious gearing problems. He was probably going 35 MPH, when the guage read 145 MPH. That is why my ricer blows these old fogie Panteras away because they "think" they are going fast by the guage, when they see me pass. I put out over 500 HP in my ricer, and guage reads "accurate" at 180. I was thinking of buying one before, but why? They tend to be just loud and pretty slow. And this one above has some serious gearing problems.
All I am saying for the above statement of the other post is that he obviousely has some serious gearing problems. He was probably going 35 MPH, when the guage read 145 MPH. That is why my ricer blows these old fogie Panteras away because they "think" they are going fast by the guage, when they see me pass. I put out over 500 HP in my ricer, and guage reads "accurate" at 180. I was thinking of buying one before, but why? They tend to be just loud and pretty slow. And this one above has some serious gearing problems.
quote:
Originally posted by Speed:
"He took it to 145 and said it felt like 35 to 40 in other cars."
All I am saying for the above statement of the other post is that he obviousely has some serious gearing problems. He was probably going 35 MPH, when the guage read 145 MPH. That is why my ricer blows these old fogie Panteras away because they "think" they are going fast by the guage, when they see me pass. I put out over 500 HP in my ricer, and guage reads "accurate" at 180. I was thinking of buying one before, but why? They tend to be just loud and pretty slow. And this one above has some serious gearing problems.
THATS FUNNY, I'VE BLOWN EVERY RICE JUNKER INTO THE WEEDS WITH THOSE TRASH CAN MUFFLERS THAT SOUND LIKE A BLOWN SPEAKER. BUT ANTWAY WHAT I YOU TALKING ABOUT HERE. I THINK THEY GOT A KIDDIE SECTION ON THE RICE-A-RONI CHAT ROOM.
Speed,
If you are into rice burners why are
you logging into a Pantera site!
If you are into rice burners why are
you logging into a Pantera site!
What's a "guage"? Is that pronounced goo-ahj?
Sorry Speed, had to bust your chops a little!
Different strokes for different folks. Me, I like movies like LeMans, Grand Prix, Gone in 60 Seconds, etc. I get the feeling that you're more of a Fast & the Furious type of guy. You'll find that most Pantera owners are early muscle car types, & you seem to be more of a modern muscle car type. That's OK, there's room for both of us. Do yourself a favor & try to experience a Pantera from behind the wheel, it's a different feeling & it can get to be quite intoxicating! Pantera's are more than just about going fast, when you understand that, you'll understand where we're coming from.
Why do people buy Harley's when just about any rice rocket will blow it into the weeds? Same answer, it's hard to describe, it's just a feeling you get when you're riding one.
Take Care & don't kill yourself in that ricer of your's!
Paul
Sorry Speed, had to bust your chops a little!
Different strokes for different folks. Me, I like movies like LeMans, Grand Prix, Gone in 60 Seconds, etc. I get the feeling that you're more of a Fast & the Furious type of guy. You'll find that most Pantera owners are early muscle car types, & you seem to be more of a modern muscle car type. That's OK, there's room for both of us. Do yourself a favor & try to experience a Pantera from behind the wheel, it's a different feeling & it can get to be quite intoxicating! Pantera's are more than just about going fast, when you understand that, you'll understand where we're coming from.
Why do people buy Harley's when just about any rice rocket will blow it into the weeds? Same answer, it's hard to describe, it's just a feeling you get when you're riding one.
Take Care & don't kill yourself in that ricer of your's!
Paul
Actually a good Pantera feels really stable at high speed.At 165(had a buddy in a modified vette next to me with an accurate speedo) my car felt like i was going alot slower,about 100 or so.The biggest indication of my speed was it took so long to react to what was around me and that everything was kind of blurry(like telephone poles).So what kind of ricer do you have to get 500 hp?Obviously its not a fwd honda with a wing and a Folgers coffee can for a muffler.Im guessing a Supra or 300z with really big turbos.
From speed:
That's what I've been saying about ricers!
[This message has been edited by red2395 (edited 05-30-2003).]
quote:
I was thinking of buying one before, but why? They tend to be just loud and pretty slow.
That's what I've been saying about ricers!
[This message has been edited by red2395 (edited 05-30-2003).]
We have many types of owners. A large number stretch a bit just to buy a 35k, straight, decent, driver of a car. For some of these folks, the notion that it might take another 35k to bring the car up to "really" nice condition is a bit much. So, from their perspective, a car at a 60k or 70k price is unreasonable.
We have other owners who will spend 70k to customize and hot rod their car. They complain and scratch their heads and wonder why everybody dosen't readily gravitate to their "vision" of a 100k hot rod car with applied fenders, wild paint and a monster engine. A car that is really not a Pantera anymore, but a pure custom, based on a Pantera platform. In our group we have all kinds of owners, but few realists when we are compared to other collectors. What would happen if we applied Bloomington Gold typw standards to Panteras as the Corvette guys do? Something to think about.
We have other owners who will spend 70k to customize and hot rod their car. They complain and scratch their heads and wonder why everybody dosen't readily gravitate to their "vision" of a 100k hot rod car with applied fenders, wild paint and a monster engine. A car that is really not a Pantera anymore, but a pure custom, based on a Pantera platform. In our group we have all kinds of owners, but few realists when we are compared to other collectors. What would happen if we applied Bloomington Gold typw standards to Panteras as the Corvette guys do? Something to think about.
Ha that's funny about the Folgers coffee can for a muffler. There are ricers all over the place in Southern CA, to the extent that I can't even find a decent trash can for my bathroom anywhere.
quote:
Originally posted by Speed:
On a four lane from Thomasville, GA to the Florida line in one spot I took the car up to 170 mph (on the speedometer actual speed I am sure was different) at 5600 RPM. When he asked how fast and I told him he replied. "IT didn't feel like we were going faster than 70 or 80. This is the fastest that I have ever been." I asked if he would like to drive back to Thomasville and he did. "How fast can I drive?" He asked. "It's your ticket, as fast as you want." He took it to 145 and said it felt like 35 to 40 in other cars.
MAYBE IT WAS ONLY GOING 35 - 40? GEARING PROBLEM? THIS MAY BE WHY REAL SUPERCARS ARE SUPERIOR, BECAUSE PANTERAS ARE REALLY SLOWER.
Yeah, right on Speed! I have a ricer with 510hp and blow these old farts away.I mean hey,there wasn't even a Pantera in that movie "fast and furious". What a bunch of dummies for buying a car that is fast, exotic and still smokin after 30 years. I have to go now, my Mommy is calling me for dinner.I'll be back later to talk some more nonsense.