Pantera FLAT Firewall build Documented and with Photos

...Doug and I have toyed with the Idea of 'cutting Down' the pump neck on an existing water pump, see pics.

The RED mark Indicates the Level of the Neck and Top of the Bearing, 1.5" Cut Down. The Blue Mark Indicates the Level of the Hub Height.

The Bad thing here is, to Press the top bearing down the 1.5", even if there were room to move to, the Two 'Sets' of bearings will be Together, increasing the 'Belt Tension' Force/Leverage on the Forward Bearing. Doug knows there is a Short and 'Whole' Bearing Set Available for the Shorty Pump. That is Designed to take the Loads. See Pics.

...comparing the Cleveland pump I hold in My hand to Photos of the Windsor 'Shorty' pump; On this Cleveland pump I see 'circle' impressions in the casting, where there are Drilled Holes in the Windsor Pump, and Drilled Holes in the Cleveland pump, where there are 'Undrilled' Bosses in the Windsor, just a Couple. Leading Me to believe Both Pumps started out from the Same Casting!* Most of the Holes are Correct. Seems all I must do to adapt the Windsor Pump is Drill out the Undrilled Holes and make sure the unused holes are sealed up. As reported in some info I have found. Last the Windsor pump, Minus It's Backing plate, should butt right up to the Cleveland 'Timing Chain Cover'.

We'll see and I will report back Soon. Awaiting Delivery of the Windsor Pump.

* Excepting for the (2) 'Twin' Bores on both sides of the Intake Port, of the Cleveland Pump.

The 'Hatch' size is Square at 21.0" Height and 19.5" wide, with the Lower, drivers' side corner cut off to clear the Shift linkage and Large Rubber 'Gromet'. You have a 'Cable Shifter'?! Then You can take that side all the way down for a clean looking square Hatch, but must plan for routing of the 2 cables.   

Agreed that it would be far simpler and safer to adapt the short W pump if possible.

That would be my prefered method. I have not put all of the alternative pumps together on the bench as of yet but it would appear that all of the necessary internal components are available to cut the nose on any pump and reassemble safely and dependably.

My only comment right now is if if the "shorty" pump is short enough and if not, if the cut nose of a stock height would offer more clearance then the currently offered short pumps?

As far as how you solve the cover issue, I have no objection to a different solution.

I simply do not know if that aftermarket billet "flat" pulley has a workable offset? It might be adjustable by relocating the mounting position of the flange on the output shaft and/or by fine tuning that with shims.

I am not necessarilly seeing the reason why the fan mounting flange needs that much clearance to the nose casting. I would think something like .100" clearance rather then .750" (or more) as shown is necessary?

...Let's stay with the Topic and Not Rant-On. That's why I started a Dedicated Thread. Thanks.

You seem to be 'Back-Peddling' on Your Idea. Perform your work and post some pictures, keep us posted. I will tell You, you will need a 25 Ton Press. I have a 10 Ton and I don't think that will do the Job, by Experience. Last, If you do Not CORRECTLY Support/Back-Up the Aluminum Casting, You WILL Break It!

As a Machinist, if It doesn't Fit, I Will MAKE it Fit!! I'm NOT going to Move any Engine BACK, and Spoil the PMOI!!

I'm actually 'Hoping' the 'Flat' Pulley is Wrong! I will use it as a 'Comparator' to Machine My Own, 40 Degree, Included Angle for V-Belt. And I can Make it Smaller (4.9") as the 'Over-Drive' Pulley You now see Mounted. Maintaining the Max. Overdrive.   

I have worked in wood, also! I have Created Dozens of projects, Exclusively in 'Old Growth Black Walnut', 'CoCo-BoLo', and My Favorite, 'Sonoran Desert Ironwood', add 'Honduran/Nicaraguan Rosewood'. I work Only with Precious woods, it makes the Project More Valuable and Most Unique.

You would not believe what I have Created!

Now, Back on Topic.

My lips are sealed. Fingers too.

...Personally, Doug...I KNOW You have the Skills to Do a Disassembly and 'Press-Assembly'. If You have doubts, it's best to Question with someone who can point things out to you. I searched the Web and Found a Manufacturer, 'We Build Ford Water pumps'. I Learned Something Did You know this Company Presses The Bearings AND Seals IN while using 3 Different Sealants.

I think You Can Do this!

P.S. I Never said I didn't want Your Opinion posted here...I just don't Like that You call Yourself a 'pig'. All the Best! We Will Succeed!

I was trying to get the dimensions of the "short pumps" but getting details like that is like pulling hens teeth. Virtually impossible.

I suspect that it could still be too tall but I'm not in the mood to go buying all this stuff when I am still trying to clean out unused and never will be used stuff.

Do you have a link to that water pump site? I do not find it in a search.

I am not clear on the assembly/disassembly sequence and if the assembly goes in/out of the housing from the front or the back?

...Good Morning.

The Standard 'Hub' height* for the standard 351C Water Pump is 5.75", the Height of the 351W 'Shorty' Pump is 4.25". Hense, 1.5" Shorter. See pic. For the purpose of eliminating the 'Hump' on a Pantera, the Alternator must be mover back 2.0" and the Original WP Pulley must be moved Back 3.0". With the Shorty pump taking up 1.5", and my plan to raise the hatch mounting surface on a 1.0" Square tube frame, leaves a Clearance Discrepancy of 0.5". I will deal with at the time of the test fit.

*Hub height is taken at the Face/Mounting Surface of the Pulley. pic included and there is this: (the 351W Shorty WP is Listed as a '302-351W')

...when I can compare both pumps, side by side, I will post what I discover. What we already know is, the Windsor 'shorty' pump:

The Intake is on the correct side, Drivers' side, Left Side of Engine.

Correct Rotation, Clockwise when mounted against the Cleveland Timing Cover.

The Majority of Bolt Hole Alignment is Correct. Those that are Not, can be Machined.

The Pulley Mounting Flange is Universal and Correct. Excepting for the Pilot Diameter of 0.75".

I know I can Lower the Alternator 4-5 Inches and it Only must be Re-Positioned Back 1.0", to Align with the Inner sheeve  of the Crank Pulley. It will clear the Lower Angle of the Firewall at 8 Degrees.

Stay Tuned   

What does the engine side of the W pump look like v. the C pump? It would simplify a solution if the base castings are the same

What impeller is the shortie pump using?

...I'll be sure to let You Know! When I Know.