Radiator coolant leak

HARD CORNERING will force MORE coolant fluid to one side than being on a slight lean whilst filling up at a gas station.

Appears your "1911" better have an extended magazine for ALL the gremlins that are taking up residence in your DeTomaso Pantera!

I would suggest pressurizing the cooling system to trace the origin of the escaping coolant...Mark

I did mention in my post that since the car was leaning, that the leak could have come from anywhere, possibly pooled a bit, and then when leaning at the gas station decided to leak out the right side.

Upon close inspection, I did find a slightly weepy/wet spot in the very left lower corner of the radiator, so my guess is a small pinhole leak.

This is part of why I bought this car! I speak 1972 just fine. Working on her is going to be fun and educational.

My last 2 cars (BMW 135i and Subaru BRZ) were both "tuner cars", so unless I learned how to tune modern FI and variable cam timing and valve lift, I was "married" to my tuner, which involved appointments, dropping the car off for a couple days, and it actually took a lot longer to get things dialed in than I had expected.

Snow White, gladly lifts her skirt for me on request so I can see all her beatiful underside, topside, insides, everything!

Like most hot chicks though, she has her moments where she acts up a bit and doesn't behave, but I'll have her straightened out in a couple days, then Snow White and I are going on some fun drives around the county, especially HW1 out at the coast. Planning on taking the Girlfriend out for Seafood!

quote:

Originally posted by mike the snake:
I did mention in my post that since the car was leaning, that the leak could have come from anywhere, possibly pooled a bit, and then when leaning at the gas station decided to leak out the right side.

Upon close inspection, I did find a slightly weepy/wet spot in the very left lower corner of the radiator, so my guess is a small pinhole leak.

This is part of why I bought this car! I speak 1972 just fine. Working on her is going to be fun and educational.

My last 2 cars (BMW 135i and Subaru BRZ) were both "tuner cars", so unless I learned how to tune modern FI and variable cam timing and valve lift, I was "married" to my tuner, which involved appointments, dropping the car off for a couple days, and it actually took a lot longer to get things dialed in than I had expected.

Snow White, gladly lifts her skirt for me on request so I can see all her beatiful underside, topside, insides, everything!

Like most hot chicks though, she has her moments where she acts up a bit and doesn't behave, but I'll have her straightened out in a couple days, then Snow White and I are going on some fun drives around the county, especially HW1 out at the coast. Planning on taking the Girlfriend out for Seafood!

"Lady or the tiger"? It's my opinion that in many cases one is better off with the tiger?

THE biggest problem with the aluminum radiators is that they really are showing in many cases but not all a life span of around three years.

Anyone off the street can speculate as to why but that is a debate that is relatively useless.

The fact of the matter is that you can't repair an aluminum radiator reliably, i.e., when it leaks, replace it.

The big brass radiators that Hall sells are thicker than the originals and repairable almost indefinitely. Are these as attractive as your "friend" in the push up bra? Hardly.



There are SO MANY individual points on a Pantera that can leak for any number of reasons. It could be a hose clamp (one of many), a hose (one of many), a leaking radiator, an overfilled "overflow tank", even a leaking heater supply pipe under the car, or a leaking heater core, or a heater hose.

What I would suggest is make sure the system is full (there's a science to that in a Pantera too) then use a coolant pressure test kit. Pump it up to 16 psi and see what happens.

The results should speak volumes and the results from the $100 you spend on the Stant test kit is worth it's weight in gold.



Things like the Pantera's cooling system, once YOU have to deal with it will make you question whether or not "you" ever understood cooling systems to begin with.

Upon inspecting things, i noticed the radiator (Fluidine) is what I would consider "hard-mounted", with mounting tabs from the radiator bolted directly to mounting tabs on the car. No rubber grommets or "soft mounting" that I can see.

I've been driving the car quite a bit since buying it (it's been a week and I've put 4 or 5 tanks of gas through the car), and I've been 45-ing it out of deep parking lots to avoid scraping the front air dam.

I THINK, MAYBE, that my 45-ing it out of parking lots has caused slight flexing/twisting of the chassis, which has in turn done the same to the radiator.

I'm probably overthinking this, and just need to pull the radiator and have it repaired (if possible) or replaced.

I have a friend with a lift, and in a week or so I plan to use the lift to get under the car, clean things up, inspect, and change out the engine (all 10 quarts), coolant (and radiator?) and gearbox oil. I WAS able to find the Castrol Hypoy 80-90 GL5 that RBT recommends, so I bought a gallon of that and plan to use that when I change the gearbox oil.

quote:

Originally posted by mike the snake:
Upon inspecting things, i noticed the radiator (Fluidine) is what I would consider "hard-mounted", with mounting tabs from the radiator bolted directly to mounting tabs on the car. No rubber grommets or "soft mounting" that I can see.

I've been driving the car quite a bit since buying it (it's been a week and I've put 4 or 5 tanks of gas through the car), and I've been 45-ing it out of deep parking lots to avoid scraping the front air dam.

I THINK, MAYBE, that my 45-ing it out of parking lots has caused slight flexing/twisting of the chassis, which has in turn done the same to the radiator.

I'm probably overthinking this, and just need to pull the radiator and have it repaired (if possible) or replaced.

I have a friend with a lift, and in a week or so I plan to use the lift to get under the car, clean things up, inspect, and change out the engine (all 10 quarts), coolant (and radiator?) and gearbox oil. I WAS able to find the Castrol Hypoy 80-90 GL5 that RBT recommends, so I bought a gallon of that and plan to use that when I change the gearbox oil.

I would suggest that the effects of a hard mount would cause a "shearing/tearing" effect ( Don't believe that is the causation) vs a "pinhole".

A "pinhole" leak usually is caused from metal deterioration from INSIDE the radiator working it's way out.

"IF" chassis flexing caused radiator leaks, then ALL our collective DeTomaso Panteras would be leaking like the Exxon Valdez or the Federal Budget...Mark

Ahhh, OK, thanks, good to know.

I'm going to be on the phone with Fluidine, or whoever makes them first thing tomorrow morning.

I'll probably be replacing the radiator, and when I do I'm going to be sure to "soft mount" the new radiator with rubber grommets between all the mounting tabs.

quote:

Originally posted by 1Rocketship:

quote:

Originally posted by mike the snake:
Upon inspecting things, i noticed the radiator (Fluidine) is what I would consider "hard-mounted", with mounting tabs from the radiator bolted directly to mounting tabs on the car. No rubber grommets or "soft mounting" that I can see.

I've been driving the car quite a bit since buying it (it's been a week and I've put 4 or 5 tanks of gas through the car), and I've been 45-ing it out of deep parking lots to avoid scraping the front air dam.

I THINK, MAYBE, that my 45-ing it out of parking lots has caused slight flexing/twisting of the chassis, which has in turn done the same to the radiator.

I'm probably overthinking this, and just need to pull the radiator and have it repaired (if possible) or replaced.

I have a friend with a lift, and in a week or so I plan to use the lift to get under the car, clean things up, inspect, and change out the engine (all 10 quarts), coolant (and radiator?) and gearbox oil. I WAS able to find the Castrol Hypoy 80-90 GL5 that RBT recommends, so I bought a gallon of that and plan to use that when I change the gearbox oil.

I would suggest that the effects of a hard mount would cause a "shearing/tearing" effect ( Don't believe that is the causation) vs a "pinhole".

A "pinhole" leak usually is caused from metal deterioration from INSIDE the radiator working it's way out.

"IF" chassis flexing caused radiator leaks, then ALL our collective DeTomaso Panteras would be leaking like the Exxon Valdez or the Federal Budget...Mark

The rubber grommets placed between radiator tabs and mounting positions on body still WON't compensate for flex only for isolating vibration.

A much better option/application is to use a firewall grommet in an enlarged hole in the radiator mounting tabs.

This placement will allow/compensation for some chassis flexing...Mark

https://www.google.com/search?...3137-vui%3B250%3B250

Mike,

You may want to research No-Rosion HyperKuhl Super Coolant. It contains anti-corrosion anti-electrolysis additives as well as the water wetter agents found in the No-Rosion product. If you do have a "pin-hole" in the aluminum that may be the cause. I use 2 bottles when filling my 5 gallon system. You can purchase it from Pantera Parts Connection. Something else, never use distilled water when filling the system. The purity of the water will leach minerals from your nice new aluminum radiator resulting in, you guessed it, a pin hole. I use bottled "purified drinking water with minerals added for taste" in a 60/40 (water/coolant) mix here is NorCal.


Steve

What are your thoughts on that "pre-mixed" 50-50 water/coolant they sell at the parts store?

Can I just use that stuff and not worry about what, and how much water to use?

$$$$$ is the difference. You are paying quite premium to have someone mix a half gallon of water into your coolant. We don't have extreme cold here and the Pantera needs all the help it can get in the cooling department. Two gallons of coolant mixed with three gallons of water works in my car and then another half gallon in the overflow tank.

Steve

Well, the Fluidyne radiator works VERY well, although it just sprung a pinhole leak. I added some "Stops Leaks" after checking that it was OK to use, and the leak is now gone, so I've bought myself some time at least.

When the time comes, I'd almost rather go with Fluidyne again, since it should mount the same (although I don't know if the mounting of this radiator was custom or if it used the stock mounting system) but it works really really well. I'll cross that bridge when I have to. If I can eek some more life out of this radiator I'll do that, as I spent more that I had factored in buying the car.

I'm on a Top Ramen diet for a while lol.

quote:

Originally posted by mike the snake:
Well, the Fluidyne radiator works VERY well, although it just sprung a pinhole leak. I added some "Stops Leaks" after checking that it was OK to use, and the leak is now gone, so I've bought myself some time at least.

When the time comes, I'd almost rather go with Fluidyne again, since it should mount the same (although I don't know if the mounting of this radiator was custom or if it used the stock mounting system) but it works really really well. I'll cross that bridge when I have to. If I can eek some more life out of this radiator I'll do that, as I spent more that I had factored in buying the car.

I'm on a Top Ramen diet for a while lol.

OK. Good. Here is my opinion on them. Take it with no venom or vengence intended.

You can not repair these things. Once they leak, you put in stop leak. If it works fine, BUT from over 40 years of experience with cars, it is temporary AND the stop leak also plugs other portions of the radiator internally as well as settling in certain sections of the blocks cooling passages.

Aluminum offers NO cooling advantages over copper or brass. NONE.

It is used for only two reasons. 1) less weight for a racing car 2) glitz.

Think of the reliability of the thing now. If you take the car out for a drive and the radiator blows again and you can't get home with it that way, what are you going to do?

You can't take it to a radiator shop and have them repair it. You need to order another. Wait for it to get delivered.

Where are you going to do that? In a Hotel parking lot where you stay while you wait for the new radiator?

A brass radiator can be repaired virtually anywhere by anyone ALMOST limitlessly.

The guys who have these aluminum radiators are the guys who are subject to having to buy something when the mailman brings the new Summit Racing catalog.

There is little thought process that goes into the decision. Just to the reaction of all of that shinny aluminum and the vacancy of credit limit on that new credit card.

It is the power of the "Dark Side" and subliminal marketing psychologists that hit you at your weakest moment.

You need to be made of "sterner stuff".

Brass IS the way to go. Don't listen to the Devil whispering in your ears. Resist! You can do it!



As far as what anti-freeze? Well, the GM pre-mixed would be the "premium" brand to use. It is mixed to be compatable with the aluminum components that GM builds now into every car. Not just the Corvette.

Pre-mixed, although pennies more than the 100% anti-freeze, has a distinct advantage here.

It is pre-mixed with DISTILLED water, not tap water.



MANY places in this country have water that has additional ingredients in it. SOME are HIGHLY corrosive to engine components LIKE ALUMINUM RADIATORS.

Now that pre-mix is going to be 50/50. IF you want to do research on the mix you will eventually come to a chart that shows that 60/40 is the optimum anti-freeze/water mixture, not 50/50.

If you are going to mix yourself, in a Pantera, the 60/40 MIGHT be worthy of the consideration?

I personally find pre-mixed 50/50 is fine, BUT if you want to max this thing out, as many Pantera owners do, then consider 60/40.


...and no, anyone who wants to argue about this, forget about it. I'm not going to go find the 60/40 chart for you. It's right there on the web. Read it and weep if you must...I ain't got the time to anguish over this.

Go kick the dog. tell the Boss to go screw off or yell at your wife. I'm not interested.

Doug, We believe you. Maybe a drink is in order? LOL. Just kidding. Your comments are often entertaining yet still informative.

Ok enough jokes.

I went the 10% coolant and NoRosion route with my car. I uses two bottles. I seems to cool a little better than before with the 50/50. If course since I am in SoCal I have no need for freeze protection.

quote:

Originally posted by ItalFord:
Doug, We believe you. Maybe a drink is in order? LOL. Just kidding. Your comments are often entertaining yet still informative.

Reason #2 for an 18-lb aluminum radiator is higher coolant flow rates through the 3X larger water tubed used in aluminum, To get even reasonable coolant flow rates thru a brass radiator, the tubes are paper-thin and the stock rad still weighed 46 lbs. That's significant wt off the front end even on a street car. GM started using aluminum rads in Corvettes & Z-28s in the mid-'70s, and now ALL mfgrs use aluminum- even in trucks.

I had asked about the pre-mixed coolant/water just becasue it sounded easier than seeking out the correct water (of which there are differing opinions) and not have to deal with mixing ratios. For an extra $20 if I can just pour if the correct stuff that works with aluminum and won't cause leaks down the road, than I'm game for that.

As far as brass verses aluminum, it sounds like both seem to function equally as well.

Like the Frosted Mini wheats commercial, The "responsible adult" in me tells me to use a brass replacement, but the "sugar frosted racer" in me says "save the weight, because, Racecar!" lol.

I wish they made a mini Frosted Wheat radiator, half brass and half aluminum, that worked and tasted as good as the cereal. lol

quote:

Originally posted by mike the snake:
I had asked about the pre-mixed coolant/water just becasue it sounded easier than seeking out the correct water (of which there are differing opinions) and not have to deal with mixing ratios. For an extra $20 if I can just pour if the correct stuff that works with aluminum and won't cause leaks down the road, than I'm game for that.

As far as brass verses aluminum, it sounds like both seem to function equally as well.

Like the Frosted Mini wheats commercial, The "responsible adult" in me tells me to use a brass replacement, but the "sugar frosted racer" in me says "save the weight, because, Racecar!" lol.

I wish they made a mini Frosted Wheat radiator, half brass and half aluminum, that worked and tasted as good as the cereal. lol

There are certain items that are very "touchy" and sensitive to even talk about. Aluminum vs. brass radiators is one of them.

I can tell you that on the "vintage" Mustangs like my 67 & 68 Shelbys, if you relocate the battery to the trunk, you take the entire weight of the battery off of the nose of the car and put it in the tail.

That weight difference is approximately the difference between the aluminum and brass radiators in the Pantera.

That change in the "Mustangs" will show a significant difference in the engineering calculations as far as weight distribution percentage, center of gravity and more I am sure.

I have autocrossed these things, done high speed events with them for 40 years.

(Pist...hey Buddy, it don't make no freakin' difference on these cars)

I had that discussion years ago with Gary Hall. He just laughed about it and said "the only advantage to the aluminum is for racing, getting the overall weight of the car down".

You want one? Fine. Let me know when you find someone who can solder the aluminum leaks up when they start to appear.

You know, as a matter of fact, the nose of the Pantera gets very light and a little spooky at around 150 mph. Granted that is from aerodynamic lift, but it doesn't help that the nose is 50 pounds lighter. You stay airborn longer.

At 150 mph, that's something like one football field of travel every heartbeat.

Just hope that the trees weren't out all night drinking and they hide and wait until you get to close, then run out in front of you? I hate when that happens?

Can you tell me if most of the replacement kits for the car (brass OR aluminum) are direct bolt-in? Do they use the stock mounting tabs or is some custom mounting required between kits.

My Fluidyne had a nice set of fans, all nicely wired up, if I chose to switch to brass, I'd also like to make sure I could remount those fans, as they seem VERY effective.

I made a call to Fluidyne, waiting on a call-back, we'll see what they say. If it involves removing and sending it back for "testing" then I'll probably just run it til the "Stops Leaks" stops working, and just buy a replacement radiator.

I'm not too worried about the weight, more that the installation of the new radiator doensn't need any special custom mounting, and my existing fans will be able to be fitted to the new radiator.

quote:

Aluminum offers NO cooling advantages over copper or brass. NONE.

It is used for only two reasons. 1) less weight for a racing car 2) glitz.

Three reasons actually...
3. Aluminum and plastic cost less than a copper/brass radiator. THAT's the reason all automotive manufacturers went to aluminum radiators. Cheaper, not better!