So flowkooler has the 192 version, but no 180? Where is the latest source for these. From reading, Prestone and Dayco also have versions, but no longer made....
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I contacted Flowcooler and it looks like we will have to wait until April. See their reply below. There is a Dayco part in Australia, but the shipping makes it one very expensive thermostat.
"The company producing the RobertShaw thermostats have been retooling & repairing their equipment. The 333-180 will not be in production until the middle of April at the earliest."
Holen Johnson
Flowkooler
500 Linne Road - Unit I
Paso Robles, CA 93446
Tel: 805-239-2501
Fax: 805-239-2545
"The company producing the RobertShaw thermostats have been retooling & repairing their equipment. The 333-180 will not be in production until the middle of April at the earliest."
Holen Johnson
Flowkooler
500 Linne Road - Unit I
Paso Robles, CA 93446
Tel: 805-239-2501
Fax: 805-239-2545
Try Moneymaker Racing . . . .
Thanks for the info guys, I will contact mm racing and see what they have.
Moneymaker relayed that it is a Mr Gasket box but a RS thermostat? I replied asking if this is an old batch with 333-180 stamped on it like the robert shaws or if its the same thing as below which has mr gaskets 4364 stamped on it? The Flowkooler pictures on summit looks the same.
Oreilly Auto
Amazon
Napa Online
Oreilly Auto
Amazon
Napa Online
Just bought the mr gasket stat and it does have the 333-180 part number stamped but it looks exactly like the Oreilly and napa ones you posted
i'm going to stop by oreilly on the way home from work tonight and have a look, they have two in stock supposedly. NAPA's main warehouse for the state is near my house also so i will check them as well to see what is stamped on them.
The Robertshaw 330 series looks like the 333 series from the top, but flip it over & they're not the same. The 330 series is the universal thermostat that fits small block Fords, small block Chevys and small block Mopars.
That's also one way to determine what Mr Gasket & others are selling ... search which motors the thermostat fits. The 333 series fits 351C, 351M and 400 only. And a thermostat that fits 289/302/351 Fords, small block Chevys or small block Mopars will not work properly in a Cleveland.
Ford has used the Robertshaw high flow thermostat in many applications since the 1960s, and I believe they still use it today. They all look the same from the top, but only the one designed for the 351C has the little 11/16" flanged button on the bottom. Its a small subtle difference that many people don't understand. This thermostat is unique to the 335 series motors (351C, 351M, 400) and no other motor uses it.
Even Ford has sold the wrong thermostat over the counter in the 1970s! They actually boxed the wrong thermostat in the box of the right part number. Check out techincal service bulletin number 9, page 11.
My advice is to use the 333-192 thermostat. The original 351C thermostats were 192 degree thermostats.
...
That's also one way to determine what Mr Gasket & others are selling ... search which motors the thermostat fits. The 333 series fits 351C, 351M and 400 only. And a thermostat that fits 289/302/351 Fords, small block Chevys or small block Mopars will not work properly in a Cleveland.
Ford has used the Robertshaw high flow thermostat in many applications since the 1960s, and I believe they still use it today. They all look the same from the top, but only the one designed for the 351C has the little 11/16" flanged button on the bottom. Its a small subtle difference that many people don't understand. This thermostat is unique to the 335 series motors (351C, 351M, 400) and no other motor uses it.
Even Ford has sold the wrong thermostat over the counter in the 1970s! They actually boxed the wrong thermostat in the box of the right part number. Check out techincal service bulletin number 9, page 11.
My advice is to use the 333-192 thermostat. The original 351C thermostats were 192 degree thermostats.
...
Thanks for the info George, I combed through a few threads where you guys have posted a lot of detail on this subject, now its just finding the 180's left. So to update on my escapade tonight. I went to an oreilly first and they had two of the 4364 in stock, but both were not the robert shaw with the brass encasing. Mr Gasket has obviously gone with another supplier since and not updated the picture with their auto parts distributors, so don't be fooled. So I figured there is the possibility that some stores have old stock. First I tried Napa who supposedly had one at their main warehouse, same one as before. I gave one last try at another performance oriented oreilly nearby and while they didn't have the 180, they did have a 330-160, so its getting closer. Luckily the store was dead so the guy helping me was calling multiple stores to have their clerks check their inventory specifically for a 333, but only one had the older Mr Gasket labeling on the carton. the new cartons say made in china, the 330 rs in the older cartons say printed in china. This other one says made in usa but has a CTO 210 part number. They are sending those to this store tomorrow. They might call the oreilly area warehouse tomorrow and have them check through their stock there. Since he is going to the trouble I figure I will see what they have before i order from somewhere else. I'll do business with that oreilly store in the future, that is going the extra mile.
I made one more call to a local Autozone and they had an old stock but it was a 330-180, so no luck.
If you can't wait until April, here is one of the Australian sources I mentioned. The shipping is about $20.00 to the sates.
http://www.eziautoparts.com.au...hermostat-dt66a.html
http://www.eziautoparts.com.au...hermostat-dt66a.html
A question on 180 vs 192: which is best?
I mean:
-was 180 the best in the pre-emission days and thereby best for engines like most of ours, and the 192 arrived as part of emissions package?
or
-is 192 best for the engine and 180 is only used on engines with cooling issues (thereby compensating for a problem somewhere else)?
By "best" I mean which temperature is best for performance, fuel economy and engine life? Should a Pantera with no cooling issues use a 192 thermostat?
My boat engines run cooler thermostats for safety and salt water crystallization reasons, and that's well known to reduce performance and fuel economy
Just wondering...
I mean:
-was 180 the best in the pre-emission days and thereby best for engines like most of ours, and the 192 arrived as part of emissions package?
or
-is 192 best for the engine and 180 is only used on engines with cooling issues (thereby compensating for a problem somewhere else)?
By "best" I mean which temperature is best for performance, fuel economy and engine life? Should a Pantera with no cooling issues use a 192 thermostat?
My boat engines run cooler thermostats for safety and salt water crystallization reasons, and that's well known to reduce performance and fuel economy
Just wondering...
Several years ago I ordered two of the Robert Shaw thermostats and the vender sent me the incorrect ones, the ones without the hat on the bottom. What I did was to remove the hat from my old thermostat and intsall it the incorrect one. The hats are just a light press fit. Been on the motor for a couple of years and no problem with overheating.
quote:
Originally posted by No Quarter:
A question on 180 vs 192: which is best?
Engine wear and power improve at higher temps. In terms of engine wear 180 is OK, but you wouldn't want anything cooler. Warmer temps improve wear a small amount. In terms of performance, I believe hotter is better, up to about 210 degrees F. There is NO detrimental effect for warmer temps! The 351C came from the factory with 192 'stats. I don't know what each individual person's fear is. The boiling point of 50/50 ethylene glycol & water is about 260 degrees F at 13 psi. So either stat is operating safely below the boiling point with a large margin of safety.
In terms of oil temperature and crankshaft bearings the oil needs to stay below 230 degrees F. If oil temperature closely follows coolant temperature then with a 180 degree 'stat the oil operates about 50 degrees below 230, but with a 192 degree 'stat the oil still operates 38 degrees below 230, that is still a good margin of safety.
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Anything new on this subject? I'm into my cooling system.
Say again what's wrong with this?
http://www.autozone.com/autozo...fier=125948_88088_0_
I find it hard to believe ONLY the Robert Shaw thermostat, which you can't get, will work satisfactory.
Say again what's wrong with this?
http://www.autozone.com/autozo...fier=125948_88088_0_
I find it hard to believe ONLY the Robert Shaw thermostat, which you can't get, will work satisfactory.
Nothing new on the subject, the factory that manufactures the thermostats is shut-down for retooling. The 333-180 is out of stock. Production is supposed to resume in March or April (I forget which).
The 351C was designed to employ a Robertshaw high-flow thermostat as standard equipment and it incorporates a unique high-flow warm-up system Ford called a controlled by-pass system. A high volume of coolant was recirculated within the block (bypassing the radiator) during warm-up. This high flow bypass system prevented the formation of hot spots in the cylinder heads while warming the motor to operating temperature more quickly and more evenly.
Diverting a high volume of coolant away from the radiator would lead to over-heating during normal vehicle operation, so coolant recirculation was controlled (shut-off) once the motor reached operating temperature. This was accomplished via a unique 11/16” OD copper “button” on the bottom of the Robertshaw thermostat which extended downward as the thermostat opened and plugged an orifice in a brass plate mounted inside the block immediately below the thermostat. This button is what is missing from the generic Robertshaw thermostat designed for small block Fords, Chevys and Mopars in your link.
The high flow warm-up and controlled bypass aspects of the 351C cooling system were advanced designs for their day, and cannot be improved upon even today. But this unique design makes it imperative to locate and use the proper thermostat, which is unique to the 351 Cleveland engine series. The cooling systems of modern motors have similar functionality, but it is accomplished with a "divorced" thermostat, one that is mounted externally from the engine block. The 351C was unique in accomplishing this functionality internally ... and it was made with only a small modification of the standard Robertshaw thermostat. Unfortunately that small modification became a major stumbling block.
My advice is to use the 333-192 thermostat which IS available.
-G
The 351C was designed to employ a Robertshaw high-flow thermostat as standard equipment and it incorporates a unique high-flow warm-up system Ford called a controlled by-pass system. A high volume of coolant was recirculated within the block (bypassing the radiator) during warm-up. This high flow bypass system prevented the formation of hot spots in the cylinder heads while warming the motor to operating temperature more quickly and more evenly.
Diverting a high volume of coolant away from the radiator would lead to over-heating during normal vehicle operation, so coolant recirculation was controlled (shut-off) once the motor reached operating temperature. This was accomplished via a unique 11/16” OD copper “button” on the bottom of the Robertshaw thermostat which extended downward as the thermostat opened and plugged an orifice in a brass plate mounted inside the block immediately below the thermostat. This button is what is missing from the generic Robertshaw thermostat designed for small block Fords, Chevys and Mopars in your link.
The high flow warm-up and controlled bypass aspects of the 351C cooling system were advanced designs for their day, and cannot be improved upon even today. But this unique design makes it imperative to locate and use the proper thermostat, which is unique to the 351 Cleveland engine series. The cooling systems of modern motors have similar functionality, but it is accomplished with a "divorced" thermostat, one that is mounted externally from the engine block. The 351C was unique in accomplishing this functionality internally ... and it was made with only a small modification of the standard Robertshaw thermostat. Unfortunately that small modification became a major stumbling block.
My advice is to use the 333-192 thermostat which IS available.
-G
quote:Originally posted by RRS1:
Anything new on this subject? I'm into my cooling system.
Say again what's wrong with this?
http://www.autozone.com/autozo...fier=125948_88088_0_
I find it hard to believe ONLY the Robert Shaw thermostat, which you can't get, will work satisfactory.
The parts stores basically are showing pictures of the 330-180 and some stores do have this old stock left, but most don't even have the robert shaws anymore. the pictures are bogus in other words. you need the 333-180 which has the little collar shown elsewhere in this thread. Basically its still difficult to acquire the 333-180 in the U.S. at the moment. I ended up ordering the 333-192
That's what I did. If I overheat I am going to hunt you down George! 
My solution to the lack of 333-180 thermostats came when I ordered a pair and the vendor sent the wrong ones,330-180s. Studying the hat on the 333-180 I discovered that it is a simple press fit. I gingerly removed the hat and pressed it onto the 330-180. Problem solved. This was 3 or 4 years ago and no problem with overheating.
quote:
Originally posted by RRS1:
... If I overheat I am going to hunt you down George ...
I'm easy to find and too old & slow to escape.
When you find me I'll buy you a drink.Everything will be OK, just make sure you get all the air out of the cooling system.
I put together this picture that demonstrates how the 351C cooling system functions
-G
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For those who have been waiting to get the 180 degree version of the correct 351C "333 series" Flowcooler thermostat. I just got a note from Flowkooler/Brassworks telling me they are finally available again. $22.99, and you can order one directly from their website: http://www.flowkoolerwaterpump...29492f95acf7755f9c7a
Great news, thanks for the update!
The 192 degree thermostat is not arbitrary and the 192 temperature is their by design. In a stock 351-c testing by Ford showed that at this temperature the engine ran with the most efficiency ( including wear on internal parts like cam, bearings and rings. Lower temp range thermostats DO NOT
improve performance, but lower it. This changes with modification to the engine, but a good oil cooler will give you a better way to control engine temperatures, and not overheat.
improve performance, but lower it. This changes with modification to the engine, but a good oil cooler will give you a better way to control engine temperatures, and not overheat.
So the link to the Flowkooler website no longer goes to a valid part. Just browsing their site, there are no 333 series thermostats avaialble. I'm in the process of doing some cooling system repairs to my car and found the incorrect thermostat. I'd sure like to get the correct thermostat installed while I'm in there.
Anyone know if the thermostat is avaialble anywhere else?
Anyone know if the thermostat is avaialble anywhere else?
quote:Originally posted by Marlin Jack:
Gentlemen! Your search is over, Forever!
I purchase the robertshaw 330-180F Thermostats. Then I Machine the Copper Skirts, and Install them onto the Thermostat, Better than the Original! Beautiful! Thicker, Beefier Polished Pure Copper! The same dimensions, Exactly!
You can purchase them here:
pantera1974@verizon.net
They cost $53.97 plus $5.00 Shipping and Handling. We Except: Check or Money Order.
You will also find them listed on Ebay, along with the '351C Brass Restrictor Plate'.
My supplier is temporarily out of stock until March 2015.
Marlin P Jack