Rub 'n Buff users??

It is now amazingly clean and I would like to keep it that way. It does, of course, not present a uniform finish despite being uniformly clean.

While I probably have no memory of what I had for breakfast yesterday, I recalled previous threads regarding rub n buff. I did a PI forum search and found postings from 2005 recommending it. I haven't heard anybody recently discuss this approach so I am reaching out for some user feedback.

Are there any owners out there that are still maintaining the ZF with rub n buff? If you are, what tips and advice can you share? Touch ups? Bad stain repairs? Etc.

If you are not, can you explain why?

Thanks,

Larry
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Rub 'n Buff

Formulated from Carnauba waxes, fine metallic powders, and select pigments for a finish no paint can duplicate. Rub onto clean, dry, or previously painted surfaces or on post-fired ceramics with a finger or soft cloth, then gently buff to a beautiful luster. More buff, more shine!

This is my dry-ice blasted ZF - no Rub 'n Buff, yet.....

I went the Chip Foose way and had the box painted

It looks OK for me anyhow.

Must say I hadn't heard of your method, but it looks good.

Larry,

Interesting approach, I'm not sure we'd all have a local dry ice blaster though, it sounds like a fairly specialized business.

I'd be a little concerned over the temperature and surface brittleness or shrinkage it might create on cast components with dry ice being at -109 degrees F. I see it's aggressive enough to strip the paint from the rear cover, but does the gearbox get down to really low temperature?

Julian

An old article by Hugh Kleinpeter when he was head of ZF-America in the late '70s, recommended spraying an engine cleaner on a ZF still warm or hot from a run, then hosing it off according to the cleaner directions. ZF's reasoning was, dirt, crud & oil films insulate the cases, making the gearbox and clutch run a bit hotter to the detriment of its lubrication. The complete article is in the Aug. POCA Newsletter.

That prohibition also goes for polishing or plating which reduces surface area for heat radiation, and coating the cases with anything (which does the same). But it only becomes significant if you drive the car near to its capabilities.

Although I haven't used Rub 'N' Buff for transmission casings, I have used it for many years to stain wrought iron drapery hardware as well as to antique items from picture frames to statuary. It is an incredibly good product and has such good coverage, it's hard to believe. We used to sell it in our stores when we had retail fabric/craft stores, and afterwards I had been buying at Michael's Crafts, but they no longer carry it. The other products that are supposedly like it are clearly not as good.

Larry,
I use Rub n Buff on the trans.
You won't get results like a pro polish but it's very good. I put a new application on once a year.
This is a quick 2 minute wipe down of the product that was put on 6 months and 5000 miles ago. A fresh application and more time buffing it out will give much better results but you get the idea.

And as previously mentioned the coverage is unbelievable. I bought two tubes because i thought I would have to use lots. The one on the left is all I have used in 6 years.

And it's good for other stuff. This was put on my crapy looking brake reservoir 4 years ago.

I got the same results as Doug - super easy to apply and even easier to maintain

quote:

I'd be a little concerned over the temperature and surface brittleness or shrinkage it might create on cast components with dry ice being at -109 degrees F. I see it's aggressive enough to strip the paint from the rear cover, but does the gearbox get down to really low temperature?

Ah ha, Julian the engineer raises interest points.

Yes, it does in fact create a surface shrinkage and it is damn cold.

From Wiki:

Dry-ice blasting involves propelling pellets at extremely high speeds. The actual dry-ice pellets are quite soft, and much less dense than other media used in blast-cleaning (i.e. sand or plastic pellets). Upon impact, the pellet sublimates almost immediately, transferring minimal kinetic energy to the surface on impact and producing minimal abrasion. The sublimation process absorbs a large volume of heat from the surface, producing shear stresses due to thermal shock.[1] This is assumed to improve cleaning as the top layer of dirt or contaminant is expected to transfer more heat than the underlying substrate and flake off more easily. The efficiency and effectiveness of this process depends on the thermal conductivity of the substrate and contaminant. The rapid change in state from solid to gas also causes microscopic shock waves, which are also thought to assist in removing the contaminant. Dry Ice Blasting is nonabrasive, nonconductive and nonflammable. Dry Ice Blasting generates no additional waste or secondary contamination unlike media and water blasting.
=====================

I was not present during the process, but as the specks of dry ice immediately boil off to gas with the energy of impact, I can't imagine the underlying surface sees any temperature change of any concern. The process is used onsite for food production facility equipment; doubtful companies would submit to the process if it was in any way going to affect the integrity of their equipment. Speaking with the shop, they told me the host item does get a chill, but local to the blasting area and very short lived. Nozzle pressure is about 60 pounds.

As for finding a dry ice blasting operator, that does seem to be difficult. I did online research and stumbled upon my shop here in Fresno.

There is this online listing that may help in one's search:

http://www.blastcleaningdirect...om/Countries/USA.htm

Larry

quote:

ZF's reasoning was, dirt, crud & oil films insulate the cases, making the gearbox and clutch run a bit hotter to the detriment of its lubrication...... But it only becomes significant if you drive the car near to its capabilities.

Thanks, Jack.

I'm aware of the reasoned cautions to painting/polishing the ZF case.

Like you, I do not consider it significant in the real world for most Panteras.

Larry

quote:

I put a new application on once a year.
This is a quick 2 minute wipe down of the product that was put on 6 months and 5000 miles ago.

Thank you, Doug and 9373.

Just the feedback I was hoping to hear from long term users.

And while I remember users saying a little went a long way, Doug's barely used tube is still rather amazing.

My thinking is I will never have a cleaner surface to preserve/cover.

My 1/2 ounce tube is on its way.

Larry

Very impressive, is this it? I want some!

Larry,
Looks like Rub n Buff comes in many different colors. Which do you use for the ZF?

I have been told that previous users have selected the silver leaf color. I also ordered the pewter color for comparison.

I may also obtain the black color and see how it works on the cast iron pieces.

I bought from an eBay seller. I found Michael's/JoAnn's store stocks very limited. Bought both colors from the same seller, $5.49 @ with free shipping.

Larry

I use silver leaf. I haven't tried the pewter but I was told that the silver shines up better.

One of the other excellent qualities of Rub N Buff besides the truly amazing coverage, is that while it squeezes out of a tiny toothpaste tube with about the same consistency of toothpaste, it is dry to the touch within a few seconds of application, almost instantaneously, unlike liquid products like paint or spray paints. And for other applications, I have often used and mixed two or more colors to achieve a finish/color that suits my application. I have used hundreds of tubes over the years, not that it's easy to finish a tube, but more a result of me misplacing them.

My original plan for the ZF while I've been restoring the car was to polish the top and upper portion of the sides and R&B the lower sides and underneath. However after spending a few hours and not getting very far, decided to go with what works

In fluorescent light the results look similar however once outside they're very different

Left side polish - right side. Rub N Buff

Outside lighting

Rub N Buff all the way!!

It looks great, now when I get my car back in the next couple of weeks, I guess I'll have some work to do. I bet you didn't even use anywhere near a whole tube, did you?

That looks great. And so easy to keep it looking that way.

I have begun the rub and buff application on my ZF.

I am using a toothbrush, Q-tips and toothpicks to get into all the nooks and crannies. Like everyone else I am amazed With the coverage of this product.

Pretty sure everyone can tell which side of the case I have worked on.

Larry

Closeup

Remember, this is a wax based product not a paint. It dries immediately and even minimal buffing begins to bring out the shine

quote:

I have begun the rub and buff application on my ZF.

I am using a toothbrush, Q-tips and toothpicks to get into all the nooks and crannies. Like everyone else I am amazed With the coverage of this product.

Pretty sure everyone can tell which side of the case I have worked on.

What color did you use Larry? Silver Leaf or Pewter? Inquiring minds want to know...

Silver leaf

Try it once, what do you have to loose. It works GREAT, it works RIGHT NOW, like IMMEDIATE. AMMMMAZZZZING, absolutely amazing. Clean grease first, the add a tiny bit to the toothbrush and WOOOLAAAAA! It looks PERFECT. Everyone I've shown this to is like 'WHOA' here at the Pantera shop. Can't beat it. Best 5 bucks you'll ever spend.
Shark

You guys are letting the secret out.
After I've been telling everybody how I spend days polishing it up like that
As far as improvement per dollar you can't argue with "the best 5 bucks you'll ever spend"

Doug M

Looked for Rub'n Buff in Montreal area, but nowhere to be found. One retailer said they carried it 4-5 years ago but could get it for me so left my info. She called me back in 1hour saying she had it, I was puzzled how she got it so fast, and said I'd pick it up on the weekend. She called me back that evening saying she can't sell it to me. She had called the head office wondering why they had the product in storage and couldn't sell it, response HEALTH CANADA had it pulled for health reasons. Has anyone in Canada found it anywhere or know why it is a health risk?? Rob6145

Good God!!!
I have no idea why it would be a health risk. I suppose if you ate the whole tube it would be bad for you. I haven't looked for it in years but if what she told you is true you're not going to find it anywhere in Canada. Just order it off e-bay and hope it gets across the border. Just another ridiculous example of the government deciding what we can and cannot do.
I'll snoop around the arts and crafts stores here and let you know. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

Doug M

Just came back from the major retailer, she showed me the tube and totally refused to sell it to me. I read the packaging and didn't notice anything that I haven't seen on other warnings. I'm totally confused. Rob6145

AFAIK, it is comprised of carnuba wax and micropulverized pigment components. Perhaps one of the varieties uses lead as it's pigment?

Larry

So this stuff is more of a coating than a polish?

Absolutely.

For a reference that you are probably familiar with, the Silver-leaf that I used leaves your fingers looking just like they do after you use the gray anti-seize on a threaded assembly.

Larry

I got mine on eBay. It is pretty amazing.
This vendor here seems to have no issues shipping north of the border, he has a special note about covering Canadian taxes.
YEAAOSwBLlU71rK" target="_blank">https://www.ebay.com/itm/Silve...c:gYEAAOSwBLlU71rK

Finished.

I did not keep a running total but I figure I have somewhere around 30 hours in the total process. Used Q-tips to get into every nook and cranny, top and bottom. Used black hobby enamel with 1/4" and pinstripe brushes.

Larry

From the rear