I find that shifting from 1st to 2nd I need a split second pause in between (which the gate kind of mandates) or sometimes I get a little (syncro) gear bump if I try and force it with one continuous movement. What is your experience?
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Its common for ZF shifting issues to crop-up when the gearbox oil gets a few thousand miles on it, or even as the oil ages. For instance I can tell when the oil in 6018's gearbox needs changing because it will begin balking going into first gear after the gearbox warms up.
The best recommendation is to change the oil annually at the beginning of each new driving season. If the gearbox oil currently in your Pantera's ZF is over a year old or has a few thousand miles on it I'd suggest changing it just for the hell of it and see if the problem improves.
The best recommendation is to change the oil annually at the beginning of each new driving season. If the gearbox oil currently in your Pantera's ZF is over a year old or has a few thousand miles on it I'd suggest changing it just for the hell of it and see if the problem improves.
I use Redline HeavyShok gear lube. Very good stuff.
Classic 2nd gear synchro failure looming. .. 
Mine was so bad that I just skipped right to 3rd until I had Lloyd Butfoy fix it.
Mine was so bad that I just skipped right to 3rd until I had Lloyd Butfoy fix it.
Yes, I'm thinking that's what it is, but not bad at the moment. The question is what can be done to preserve it as long as possible. I think I'm already doing it. I Don't think the type of gear oil will make any difference. At least it never has with other exotics I've owned.
I have the exact same thing and I have brand new syncrorings. Using Redline oil.
Interesting.
I told you, you should of had the ZF gone through when it was out of the car.
Yeah you did. But then I would have been out of commission another 2 months. I'm impatient.
As a matter of interest what is your curb idle set at? I have a slightly sticky throttle (I am having a new cable made now) which makes the revs a little higher (1000-1200) for half a second longer between gears. I lubed my existing cable which solved the sticking short term, however it had the other effect of stopping the same issue you are having. Just a thought.
Just for the record I have not long replaced my trans oil with Redline Lightweight Shockproof.
Just for the record I have not long replaced my trans oil with Redline Lightweight Shockproof.
[quote]The question is what can be done to preserve (the synchros) as long as possible. I think I'm already doing it. I Don't think the type of gear oil will make any difference.....[quote]
In addition to what George said, look closely at the shift-shaft support under the left header. Looseness there will translate to sloppy shifting, as will worn shifter u-joints. Adding a long-throw clutch slave will help preserve what you've got left. And always mat the clutch pedal to maximize clutch disengagement distance and minimize synchro wear. Bottom Line: Panteras do not speed-shift well.
In addition to what George said, look closely at the shift-shaft support under the left header. Looseness there will translate to sloppy shifting, as will worn shifter u-joints. Adding a long-throw clutch slave will help preserve what you've got left. And always mat the clutch pedal to maximize clutch disengagement distance and minimize synchro wear. Bottom Line: Panteras do not speed-shift well.
In my experience redline 75W90 NS ( non slip) makes shifting smoother BUT it also increases the chances of leakage from the seals.
When I first started driving my Pantera I found if you try & shift too fast you feel resistance from the ZF transmission.
If you force it I believe you will do damage, it certainly does not feel right doing that.
It took a while to get used to shifting firmly & precisely, but never forcefully.
I filled the ZF with Redline Lightweight Shockproof oil & it did improve the shifting, it’s much smoother.
Maybe a 20% noticeable gain in smoother shifting.
The redline oil also swelled the seals on the output shafts & it stopped leaking!!
That alone was worth the change in oil.
Regards,
Tony.
If you force it I believe you will do damage, it certainly does not feel right doing that.
It took a while to get used to shifting firmly & precisely, but never forcefully.
I filled the ZF with Redline Lightweight Shockproof oil & it did improve the shifting, it’s much smoother.
Maybe a 20% noticeable gain in smoother shifting.
The redline oil also swelled the seals on the output shafts & it stopped leaking!!
That alone was worth the change in oil.
Regards,
Tony.
One thing I forgot- definitely remove the redundant second shifter detent at the shifter stick! There is a quite adequate shift-detent built into all ZF gearboxes, but for no reason we can understand, DeTomaso/Ford added a second one. This one is NEVER lubed and often gets sticky, acting more like a delay. ZF experts routinely remove this second detent from Panteras without charge.
A)- Under the console cover and just behind the shift stick is an e-ring retainer holding a 1" round plug; remove the ring & plug.
B)- Underneath is a sliding cylinder and spring. Remove those, too. Add a suitable plug to keep dust out of the shifter mechanism. Wine-bottle corks, plastic- about anything works. The new plug need not be mechanically locked in- there's no force on it.
That's all there is to it. Go drive the car and evaluate the much freer shifting. You still cannot slam-shift without grinding, but the whole action is smoother at zero cost.
A)- Under the console cover and just behind the shift stick is an e-ring retainer holding a 1" round plug; remove the ring & plug.
B)- Underneath is a sliding cylinder and spring. Remove those, too. Add a suitable plug to keep dust out of the shifter mechanism. Wine-bottle corks, plastic- about anything works. The new plug need not be mechanically locked in- there's no force on it.
That's all there is to it. Go drive the car and evaluate the much freer shifting. You still cannot slam-shift without grinding, but the whole action is smoother at zero cost.
Okay, thanks. I have heard that being a problem.
I removed the detent on the shifter stick and only noticed a small improvement in shift. It made so little difference that I have put the detent back.
As others have said you likely have second gear synchro wear, however my rebuilt ZF will still drag in second if I'm not careful to get full clutch disengagement.
Make sure your clutch master and slave are adjusted to provide as much clutch disengagement as possible, in my experience any drag manifests itself in second mostly.
Julian
Make sure your clutch master and slave are adjusted to provide as much clutch disengagement as possible, in my experience any drag manifests itself in second mostly.
Julian
I agree with what everyone else has said here, but let me just add that as Joules has said, even if the second gear synchro is brand spanking new, it is the one you will tend to grind.
It has to do with a lot of things. The rod shifter flex for one thing.
The angle through the gate into second for another.
You just have to be conscious of second gear with driving this car.
The clutch not fully being disengaged.
EVERY manual transmission I've ever driven will show this to some degree in second gear. It is the largest gear in the cluster and has the most inertia to slow it down.
Make SURE, measure the clearance with a feeler gauge, that the clutch has .045" clearance at full travel. If it doesn't, that's your BIGGEST problem right there. You have to have that clearance. If you don't figure out how to adjust everything to get it. This is something that you cannot compromise on.
...AND that is the absolute MINIMUM CLEARANCE YOU SHOULD HAVE! More is better. Your ZF might need .050"!
Also make sure that you are depressing the clutch pedal enough to get that everytime and if not adjust the clutch pedal to get it, not just the clutch slave cylinder.
It's very easy to blame the synchros. Then when you get it back from Butfoy and find it is doing the same thing and he says there is absolutely nothing wrong with the unit, this is just what they do you will begin to see the light.
I just wear dark sunglasses all of the time. I'm constantly blinded by the lights I'm suddenly seeing ALL of the time.
It has to do with a lot of things. The rod shifter flex for one thing.
The angle through the gate into second for another.
You just have to be conscious of second gear with driving this car.
The clutch not fully being disengaged.
EVERY manual transmission I've ever driven will show this to some degree in second gear. It is the largest gear in the cluster and has the most inertia to slow it down.
Make SURE, measure the clearance with a feeler gauge, that the clutch has .045" clearance at full travel. If it doesn't, that's your BIGGEST problem right there. You have to have that clearance. If you don't figure out how to adjust everything to get it. This is something that you cannot compromise on.
...AND that is the absolute MINIMUM CLEARANCE YOU SHOULD HAVE! More is better. Your ZF might need .050"!
Also make sure that you are depressing the clutch pedal enough to get that everytime and if not adjust the clutch pedal to get it, not just the clutch slave cylinder.
It's very easy to blame the synchros. Then when you get it back from Butfoy and find it is doing the same thing and he says there is absolutely nothing wrong with the unit, this is just what they do you will begin to see the light.
I just wear dark sunglasses all of the time. I'm constantly blinded by the lights I'm suddenly seeing ALL of the time.
It sounds like getting the console cover off ought to be pretty easy - how does it remove?
I monkeyed with it a couple times, but never cracked the code..... (I didn't have the seats out when I was messing with it, though)...
Rocky
I monkeyed with it a couple times, but never cracked the code..... (I didn't have the seats out when I was messing with it, though)...
Rocky