Smoke from ZF Inspection Window during Engine Break-In

Not sure if the starter video will upload, but here goes.

Thanks,
john

I wouldn’t think the starter “pinion” would have that much play in it…

You may be on the right track…

Should be a simple thing to put in a switch to cut the solenoid out of the ignition circuit…

Ditto

I believe that starter is toast- a bad bearing or …..??

Larry

How exactly did you wire your gear reduction starter?

Vendors often supply a little jumper from the battery terminal to the solenoid terminal and suggest you wire it similar to a stocker by simply reconnecting the big cable back onto the starter.

Problem with that is that the still spinning starter becomes a generator when you let off the key, which can keep the solenoid engaged, which keeps the pinion engaged with the flywheel.

I'm trying to imagine how fast the armature of a PMGR starter would be spinning engaged to a flywheel turning at cam break in speed.

Larryw,

You are correct.  I had to add a small jumper from the battery terminal to the solenoid terminal. 

I like Rocky's idea of putting a relay on the solenoid terminal.

I'm going to try use my original motorcraft starter today and hope it has enough torque to crank the new engine over. 

There is a very effective way to make a proper installation of the PMGR starters by adding one 12ga wire and rearranging the big cables on the big existing relay on the firewall.
perhaps someone has the link or if I don’t see anything later I’ll try and post a diagram.

Here you go

Here's some photos of how to do it.

Remove that little jumper you added.

At the firewall solenoid you will move the big cable from the big stud on the passengers side of the solenoid over to join the big cable on the drivers side of the solenoid and secure.

Connect the big cable to the big stud on the starter.

Add a 12 ga wire from the vacated big stud on the passenger side of the solenoid and run it beside the big cable and connect to the solenoid terminal on the starter.

You are done.

I found this diagram.  It makes sense that the high current starter connection goes direct to the battery and the starter solenoid would then be switched using the factory solenoid on the firewall.

Thanks,

John

#2551

My photos show an installation as per figure 5.

Thanks Larry,

I will get his rewired today.  Looks like the starter will be good enough to finish the cam break in.  Summitt sells rebuild kits for this starter so I will being doing that next.

Best Regards,
John

#2551

FYI:  

With an estimated cam break-in speed of 2,000 rpm, 164 tooth flywheel, and 10 tooth (estimated) starter pinion, the starter's OUTPUT SHAFT would be turning 32,800  rpm.  Note that that is the speed of the OUTPUT SHAFT.

Factoring in the starter's internal gear reduction being driven in "reverse", the starter's armature would likely be rotating at over 100,000 rpm.  

At 3:1 gear reduction:  98,400 rpm

At 4:1 gear reduction:  131,200 rpm

If the starter has a 9 tooth pinion, the rpm would be even higher.  It's lucky that the starter didn't explode !!

John

Thats scary.

I tried again with the updated wiring and I'm getting the same results.  I believe the start gear may be hanging up on the flywheel but I'm not 100% sure.  At this point I'm so frustrated I'm considering pulling the ZF out to make sure I don't have some other issue.

Pretty sure the battery and starter are both done at this point.

Does anyone have a better starter recommendation?  Mine is a Powermaster 9630.

Thanks,

John

#2551

A favorite starter has been a part number from DB Electric listed for ford small block w/ manual transmission. It is an aftermarket version of the stock ford part v the hitachi based item you have.
Very cost effective.
your ring gear may not have liked its recent adventure.  
Need to add that you may have to exchange your starter mounting studs for slightly longer ones or gently trim the DB starter flanges to accommodate.

could the starter pinion and flywheel gear be mismatched pitch?

I mounted the starter when I had the engine out and it seemed to match up well but I didn't try cranking it at that point.  I'm not hearing anything like a starter hanging up but I guess anything is possible.

My next step is to replace the starter now that it is wired correctly and try again.

Hopefully I'm not missing something simple like a clutch or throwout bearing issue.  The ZF is definitely in neatral so clutch, pressure plate and throw out bearing should be out of the equation?

Thanks,
John

Great folks to deal with, highly recommend

Thanks for the info.  Is this the actual part # you are using too?  #410-14033.

I checked their website for Pantera and didnt see anything.

Thanks,

John

Even if you found a pantera on their website, it would be the old-school OEM starter as installed in the Pantera.

This is a PMGR upgrade starter that is a direct boltin replacement.

The only issue you may run into is the need for longer studs as the starter base plate is thicker.

you have already resolved the minor wiring changes required

you can use either of those two numbers in their listing to do a search on eBay or Amazon. DB does sell through Amazon, IIRC.

Larry