That all depends. What does this piece of equipment look like?
Makes me think of being 16 and being much dumber then I am now (Oh yes, it's possible). The shop teacher let me come in and play with the mill even though I was not in shop class. I think that was the last time they ever let that happen. I was by myself working on the mill...never used one before.....16.....WEARING COTTON GLOVES>>>>>>>Wasn't long before I was stumbling back through the hallways trying to find the nurses station with a finger pointing a complete different direction then all the rest.
I don't like it when machines have their way with me!
I don't like it when machines have their way with me!
I remember those days. I never could figure out how to get the condom over my head for eye protection.
.....................It is very tight machine with a slight vacuum, well lubricated. without a concience.quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
That all depends. What does this piece of equipment look like?
She's hot, sexy joints!
I think that might just be the Friday joke, good one George!
Hey Mark I posted a friday joke for you, check out the pub. Check out the Dave Adler's Avatar topic too!
I just found this thread and thought I would post a couple of comments. Not on the machinery intimacy angle but on the Restoration angle.
I am a professional Auto Restorer and have been making my living this way for 17 years. I am 37.
In the early years I worked at a shop that specialized in Mustang restorations and we were able to do them cookie cutter style fairly cheaply. It was rare that a customer worried about the end value, they just wanted the car the way they wanted it. As time went on everything became more expensive and the cost to build the cars rose sharply. People still wanted what they wanted and the work continued but the customer demographic changed.
I currently work in a shop that deals in expensive show type restorations where the cost to restore the cars exceeds the value 10 times over in many cases. People still want what they want regardless. I have never had a customer that wanted a car built to sell it. If I get asked to do so I tell them that with few exceptions they will not make money. I believe a person would have to do their own work and not hire a professional shop in order to make money on a car. Restorations can often take 1100-1500 hours depending on the condition of the car. Times this by the labor rate of your choice and you can see the additonal cost from labor.
Take Comp2's MGB as an example, a couple of years ago a fellow in our shop restored a MGB for a customer. As a side note my specialty is certain types of musclecars so I did not work on this car. The cost to restore this car was just over 60K. The car was very rough and required a lot of sheet metal work. The customer also wanted a lot of power train and suspension/brake upgrades. The car was painted the color of his choice and not its original color. The customer is 6'4" so special floor and seat mods were done and the interior was done in leather etc. The car was essentially custom built to his taste and requirements. I am not aware of any MGB on the planet worth 60K but this guy loves the car and would not change anything that was done. I asked him if the cost bothered him and he said that he wasn't bothered because the car was exactly what he wanted in every way.
It is the same decision that Pantera owners make. Do you pay a shop for exactly what you want or do you build it yourself? You can save money on labor building your self but you need to aquire some skills and equipment. Comp2 is a good example of this. He has the facility and ability to achieve his goals. This might not be practical for doing just one car as purchasing and storing all of the equipment you wouldn't use again might not be for you. If you are doing multiple cars and doing it for the enjoyment then that is what is important. All of the customers that I have dealt with do not have the skills or equipment to build cars. This is why people like me are able to make a living. As for customers who take credit for your work, this usually is short lived. I had a customer at a show who went on to tell someone that he made certain parts on his car and when asked how he did it he was not able to say and made himself look kind of foolish.
As an example, ask a guy like this what size tip he used in his paint gun to paint his car...
In regard to DeTom's comment on not making your hobby your job. In my experience, doing this for a living has changed my outlook for sure but I still build my own cars. At work I get paid to build what the customer brings in if I like that type of car or not. On my own time I get to work on my Pantera and how cool it that! On my Pantera project I dont have to fill out time sheets, do invoices, worry about deadlines and the only person that has to be happy is me! (no offence to anyone currently having a car restored) This changes the whole tone of the project from "I have to" to "I want to". I might have a different attitude to work on my car compared to someone with a non-related occupation might have when working on theirs but the excitement is there just the same. I do know people in the business who got out after making it there profession but it had nothing to do with the work it was always politics, finances or a bad customer(again no offence to any having cars done).
Personally, when I buy a car it is a keeper so I do not worry about value and investment. My previous projects have been Mustang Drag race cars and they are probably worth 30cents on the dollar if that and continue to consume lots of money in maintenance and rebuilding costs as long as they are used. Its all a labor of love.
Sorry to go on for so long
I am a professional Auto Restorer and have been making my living this way for 17 years. I am 37.
In the early years I worked at a shop that specialized in Mustang restorations and we were able to do them cookie cutter style fairly cheaply. It was rare that a customer worried about the end value, they just wanted the car the way they wanted it. As time went on everything became more expensive and the cost to build the cars rose sharply. People still wanted what they wanted and the work continued but the customer demographic changed.
I currently work in a shop that deals in expensive show type restorations where the cost to restore the cars exceeds the value 10 times over in many cases. People still want what they want regardless. I have never had a customer that wanted a car built to sell it. If I get asked to do so I tell them that with few exceptions they will not make money. I believe a person would have to do their own work and not hire a professional shop in order to make money on a car. Restorations can often take 1100-1500 hours depending on the condition of the car. Times this by the labor rate of your choice and you can see the additonal cost from labor.
Take Comp2's MGB as an example, a couple of years ago a fellow in our shop restored a MGB for a customer. As a side note my specialty is certain types of musclecars so I did not work on this car. The cost to restore this car was just over 60K. The car was very rough and required a lot of sheet metal work. The customer also wanted a lot of power train and suspension/brake upgrades. The car was painted the color of his choice and not its original color. The customer is 6'4" so special floor and seat mods were done and the interior was done in leather etc. The car was essentially custom built to his taste and requirements. I am not aware of any MGB on the planet worth 60K but this guy loves the car and would not change anything that was done. I asked him if the cost bothered him and he said that he wasn't bothered because the car was exactly what he wanted in every way.
It is the same decision that Pantera owners make. Do you pay a shop for exactly what you want or do you build it yourself? You can save money on labor building your self but you need to aquire some skills and equipment. Comp2 is a good example of this. He has the facility and ability to achieve his goals. This might not be practical for doing just one car as purchasing and storing all of the equipment you wouldn't use again might not be for you. If you are doing multiple cars and doing it for the enjoyment then that is what is important. All of the customers that I have dealt with do not have the skills or equipment to build cars. This is why people like me are able to make a living. As for customers who take credit for your work, this usually is short lived. I had a customer at a show who went on to tell someone that he made certain parts on his car and when asked how he did it he was not able to say and made himself look kind of foolish.
As an example, ask a guy like this what size tip he used in his paint gun to paint his car...
In regard to DeTom's comment on not making your hobby your job. In my experience, doing this for a living has changed my outlook for sure but I still build my own cars. At work I get paid to build what the customer brings in if I like that type of car or not. On my own time I get to work on my Pantera and how cool it that! On my Pantera project I dont have to fill out time sheets, do invoices, worry about deadlines and the only person that has to be happy is me! (no offence to anyone currently having a car restored) This changes the whole tone of the project from "I have to" to "I want to". I might have a different attitude to work on my car compared to someone with a non-related occupation might have when working on theirs but the excitement is there just the same. I do know people in the business who got out after making it there profession but it had nothing to do with the work it was always politics, finances or a bad customer(again no offence to any having cars done).
Personally, when I buy a car it is a keeper so I do not worry about value and investment. My previous projects have been Mustang Drag race cars and they are probably worth 30cents on the dollar if that and continue to consume lots of money in maintenance and rebuilding costs as long as they are used. Its all a labor of love.
Sorry to go on for so long
Brook,
You come here telling us about all these cars and don't bring photos? We want photos!!! Doesn't have to be Pantera's.
Gary
You come here telling us about all these cars and don't bring photos? We want photos!!! Doesn't have to be Pantera's.
Gary
Comp2, I tried to post a pic but the file is too large. It is 910Kb 1632x1224 and the forum will only allow 350kb. I do not know how to compress the image. Any ideas?
That is a fine looking Mopar, is that yours or a customers?
Brooke, if I ever do have the money to get doen on my car what I want I will hire a pro. Heck I may even audition folks by looking at their previous works. But until the lottery ticket comes through for me, I will have to muddle through doing what I can, and find the lowest price possible on the stuff I can't and learn to live with it. 
Brook, great photos. Post em any time. Got anyphotos or links to photos of the work in the shop?
Gary
Gary
The Coronet is a customers car. The owner lives out of state so a transport will be picking it up next week and dropping off another one. It is also a 69 Coronet 426 car that has been restored but not finished.
I will find some more pics of work done. I have done a lot of partial work where a customer wanted only the rust repair or paint work done.
I will find some pics.
Future work I have scheduled for total restoration includes: 2 1970 AMC T/A Javelins, 1970 AMC AMX, 1970 AMC Rebel Machine, 1968 GT500KR Convertible, 1970 Plymouth Superbird, 1970 440+6 Fury and a lot of maintenance and detail work to other cars.
I am currently doing some maintenance and upgrade work to a 71 Pantera that is turning out to be a nightmare. I will post on that later. It has to do with the exhaust coating company accidentally blasting the chrome off of the GTS Ansa mufflers.....
I will find some more pics of work done. I have done a lot of partial work where a customer wanted only the rust repair or paint work done.
I will find some pics.
Future work I have scheduled for total restoration includes: 2 1970 AMC T/A Javelins, 1970 AMC AMX, 1970 AMC Rebel Machine, 1968 GT500KR Convertible, 1970 Plymouth Superbird, 1970 440+6 Fury and a lot of maintenance and detail work to other cars.
I am currently doing some maintenance and upgrade work to a 71 Pantera that is turning out to be a nightmare. I will post on that later. It has to do with the exhaust coating company accidentally blasting the chrome off of the GTS Ansa mufflers.....
I know several people who have day jobs who have taken night school courses on mechanics and body shop techniques just for fun.
I have trouble understanding why you see cars on ebay that have just been restored. Why would you restore it then almost immediately sell it? Trying to hide something? Got in over your head? What? Makes no sense to me.
I have trouble understanding why you see cars on ebay that have just been restored. Why would you restore it then almost immediately sell it? Trying to hide something? Got in over your head? What? Makes no sense to me.
Jeff,
I have observed several cases where a car has been done and then sold. I have customers that buy these cars and the reasons they have told me the cars were sold are:
Restoration took to long and the owner is not interested in the car any longer. There is another shop in this area that has several cars that have been in process for over 10years. I know the customers of these cars and they are all going to sell if they ever get their cars.
Speculation in the market. The next Coronet coming in was owner restored a few years ago and he sold it when the Hemi boom started. The car has been in magazines but has never had a front end alignment and a lot of things don't work.
Family problems. Divorce is the most common domestic reason I see for selling cars. Sometimes the cost puts a financial strain on the people involved and I know guys that now have no wife and no car. Its better to pull a car out of a shop than to cash in all your IRA's especially if your going to need them soon.
I dont want what I have now that I have it. Years ago we did a Black 68 Mustang Convertible for a customer and when it was done he was so scared of getting the car dirty or wrecking it that he only drove it once after completion. He sold it after 5 years of storage. I also see guys that realize having a concours car is a lot of work to keep them looking their best and tire of the constant upkeep.
Unfortunately there are cars that are slapped together to make a quick buck and ultimately someone has to sort it out. The MGB I talked about previously was a shiney red e-bay car that after purchased and stripped it found out to be made out of filler and rust. Its definately a buyer beware thing.
I have observed several cases where a car has been done and then sold. I have customers that buy these cars and the reasons they have told me the cars were sold are:
Restoration took to long and the owner is not interested in the car any longer. There is another shop in this area that has several cars that have been in process for over 10years. I know the customers of these cars and they are all going to sell if they ever get their cars.
Speculation in the market. The next Coronet coming in was owner restored a few years ago and he sold it when the Hemi boom started. The car has been in magazines but has never had a front end alignment and a lot of things don't work.
Family problems. Divorce is the most common domestic reason I see for selling cars. Sometimes the cost puts a financial strain on the people involved and I know guys that now have no wife and no car. Its better to pull a car out of a shop than to cash in all your IRA's especially if your going to need them soon.
I dont want what I have now that I have it. Years ago we did a Black 68 Mustang Convertible for a customer and when it was done he was so scared of getting the car dirty or wrecking it that he only drove it once after completion. He sold it after 5 years of storage. I also see guys that realize having a concours car is a lot of work to keep them looking their best and tire of the constant upkeep.
Unfortunately there are cars that are slapped together to make a quick buck and ultimately someone has to sort it out. The MGB I talked about previously was a shiney red e-bay car that after purchased and stripped it found out to be made out of filler and rust. Its definately a buyer beware thing.
Jeff,
I forgot to mention that I also took a auto body class at a local tech collage right out of highschool and I am now 18 years later almost finished with the Welding technology program there as well. After that I might take some machining classes. Learning never stops. I highly recommend anyone to take classes to upgrade or learn new skills.
A lot of guys in my welding class were older guys(50's) that wanted to learn how to tig weld so they could build their own custom choppers.
I forgot to mention that I also took a auto body class at a local tech collage right out of highschool and I am now 18 years later almost finished with the Welding technology program there as well. After that I might take some machining classes. Learning never stops. I highly recommend anyone to take classes to upgrade or learn new skills.
A lot of guys in my welding class were older guys(50's) that wanted to learn how to tig weld so they could build their own custom choppers.