speaker positioning

Please don't cut your stock interior door panels. Original unmolested interior door panels are getting harder and harder to find. We're talking about heritage here.

I built two speaker boxs using some old high quality 6"x9" speakers I had taken out of a car I'd sold years ago & had laying around. I made a sturdy box out of 1/8" plywood so that the speakers were a tight fit & covered the boxs with black grill cloth to blend with the interior. They fit nicely in the area just to the side & behind the seats on the drivers side left & passengers side right. With the seats pushed back they stay in place nicely and are easily removable if I ever need to remove the bulkhead. My car also originally had speakers in the drivers & passengers kick panels and I left them there. Although the speakers to the sides of the seats are halfway blocked by the seatback I still get 10X better sound than I did with just the kickpanel speakers & as Jeff said I didn't have to butcher my door panels. Of course, we all know that the "Cleveland Symphony" usually beats anything we can get out of our audio system anyway - right!

My door panel's were already cut with gaping holes when I got my car. I went with some high quality 6" dia. door speakers and also have the kick panel speakers too. Personally I wouldn't want any larger than 6" in the door and if they hadn't already been cut I wouldn't have been the one to do it. Even with good speakers I find sound quality is not as good as the 'Cleveland Symphony' and the stereo remains off most of the time, unless it's a long run.

A lot of guys use small perforated holes in the door panel to hide the speaker behind, which looks better in my opinion. Also I came across an ingenious idea ala Jeep Sound Bar, which was supposedly removable, not my taste but another idea at least. One other that somene was going with was the Fiero seat option that had the speakers in the headrest.

Julian

I was thinking about a roof mounted speaker system, one that replaces the rear trim with the dome light. This would be similar to the sound bar that mounts to the roll bars of a jeep wrangler. Has anyone attempted to make one of these? It seems that there would be adequate room for decent speakers and that they would be located close to our ears.

John
#2647

Johnny, Hall has a roof mounted speaker system advertised in the catalog. As for availability, you'd have to ask. I'm sure someone on this or the de Tomaso BB has one installed.

I considered the roof mounted speaker system since it would probably sound better but it's a tight enough fit for me now with my helmet on when I hit the local roadcourse that I decided not to chance it. Track time is infinitely more important to me than tunes.

Julian,

we must have been typing our replies at the same time. Thanks for posting the pics. regarding the pic of the soundbar, is that the Hall unit? I see that it doesn't replace the rear molding. it looks nice.

thanx,

John

John,

I'm not sure if this is the Hall system, I don't have a Hall Catalog to compare to. Both Hall and Precision Proformance sell an overhead system, which may be very similar.

From a previous thread apparently PanteraDoug has the Hall system, so maybe he can comment (I say 'comment' as Doug doesn't do photos )

Here's an alternative shot of a similar system for reference.

Julian

I suggest a pair of small enclosure mounted speakers, the kind used on either side of a computer monitor, hidden under the dash, plus one of those flat, briefcase shaped subwoofers behind the passenger seat.

No loss in headroom, no cutting of panels. The only drawback is the dynamic capabilities of the small speakers. In a Pantera a speaker must be able to play fairly loudly in order to be heard over the exhaust, so one must shop carefully for small speakers that can play loudly without being over-driven.

A set of tweeters can be mounted (glued) in the forward corners of the doors/side glass, if you are worried about hearing the high frequencies from beneath the dash area.

cowboy from hell

Both of the Pics look like the Hall over head setup. I had this in my blue car with a 4 pt rollbar and I could wear my helmet and yes I had it on the track many times. I replaced the speakers that came with the set up with much better speakers and about all that I had to do was to massage the back just a little to get the larger magnets to fit inside. Once mounted it looked great and sounded good. I also already had speakers in the door when I purchased the car, and I also rplaced those with better quality speakers.

JC Whitney have what looks to be a very similar system selling for a mere $85!

If the Hall system speakers aren't higher end and you need to replace them to get quality sound as Rapid found then this may be the way to go to customize to your own needs/interior etc.

Rapid,
Have you got dropped floorpans? I'm only 5'-9'' & with my helmet on I've only got about a 1/4" clearance before I hit the headliner. Thank goodness there aren't any speedbumps on the track! Maybe my seat just sits higher than other P-cars?

Sounds like we are about the same. On my blue car I did not have the dropped floor pans and I had the stock seats that had been recoverd by PI motorsports. They did not sit very high and I had the over head speakers. I did not have very much room side to side because if I tilted my head to the left with a helmet on I would hit the roll bar. With my red car I have the 3" dropped pans, butI have the newer wrinkled look interior and the seats have more padding so the end result is I sit about the same height in both cars. Please understand I am not saying that I have extra room, only that I fit without any issues.

quote:

Originally posted by Joules5:
John,

I'm not sure if this is the Hall system, I don't have a Hall Catalog to compare to. Both Hall and Precision Proformance sell an overhead system, which may be very similar.

From a previous thread apparently PanteraDoug has the Hall system, so maybe he can comment (I say 'comment' as Doug doesn't do photos )

Here's an alternative shot of a similar system for reference.

Julian

Beat me, kick me, whip me!

Yes I have Halls (aka known as JC Whintney's) "over the head mounting system.

I'm not going to post a picture of it because it is the same as what you guys have aleady poste.
Mine is black with a black leather headliner.

It is going to be hard to see.

I took out the rear Pantera trim piece (that holds the dome light) to get the extra head room.
My racing helmet does fit, while I'm wearing it too!
As far as where to mount a subwoofer? You got me. I haven't got a clue.

the overhead speaker system looks like the unit sold by most of the vendors. it also looks like the one that is featured in the J.C. Witney catalog. I got mine from Pantera East several years ago and it is a "one size fits all" type system. The flat edges fit behind the side headliner trim. in the picture of the Witney product you remove the center section where there are no speakers and cut it to length. there are 2 square tubes that run from side to side that also need to be cut to fit. The center section is basically a covered piece of styrofoam. It took a bunch of trial and error and cussing and fussing to get it to fit properly wound up having to bend the internal square tubes to get the unit to match the curve of the roof.

After all of that the speaker quality is pretty mediocre and one of the projects is to find speakers that will fit in the enclosure. ou can tell the speakers are not going to be great is the wire that feeds them is probably 18 or 22 gauge (very thin) which isn't going to handle much power.

The interior kick panels in my car are where I hooked up a pair of quality 5.25 " speakers that are powered by a 200 watt amp hooked up in the front trunk. I then balance/fade between the footwell speakers and the overhead system for the best sound. I also put a courtesy light in each panel that helps light the interior when the doors are opened.

As far as bass sound goes I put the Kenwood self enclosed self powered unit in my car and i have been pretty pleased with the extra bass sound. It fits pretty well between the 2 seats in front of the hump, but it kind of cramps your arm space a little. If my wife is in the car or I am flying solo it will fit behind the passenger seat with the seat pushed forward a bit. For my longer legged friends the unit can be unplugged and stored in the front trunk. I have the flattened firewall so that the passenger seat can go further back. With the unit behind the seat there is about the same legroom as without the bulkhead reduction unit.

Since I have the bulkhead reduction unit with the removable center section I am also thinking of "designing" a bass speaker unit that is built in to the center "hump" like the FORD GT

Finally, using the overhead unit probably will not significantly affect headroom, it seems to sit behind your head rather than over it. My buddy is 6'3" and it does not seem to adversely affect him whether he is in the passenger seat or drivers.

Gary #06984

foot well speaker shot. the orange loop hanging down is for my emergency hood release cable

overhead speaker shot, notice that I also replaced my interior courtesy lights

finally, a shot of my front trunk showing the amplifier mounting. It is hard to see but there is also a 6 disc cd changer that is mounted vertically on the inside fender next to the amp.

I have an iPod adapter for my radio and figured out that if I ever get to drive the car from Florida to Vegas for the national show, I could hit "random - shuffle- no repeat" on the iPod when I left Gainesville and not hear the same song twice.

Maybe we can rate the JC Whitney vs Hall with and without our racing helmets on and with 180 degree headers vs. stock and GTS with ANSA mufflers?

The point is, does it really matter with the engine running? It doesn't in mine.

yeah Doug, to some people it might really matter, I am thinking that is probably why the topic was started to begin with. I can hear my tunes when the engine is running.

Nobody loves the sweet sound of a strong running American V8 more than me but if I am riding several hours by myself some good old American rock and roll can certainly be appreciated.

the real point is someone had a question about our favorite cars and lots of folks took time out of their day to try to help out a fellow enthusiast and give him an answer without the sarcasm

Gary #06984

This is a great discussion. It's everything I have had problems with.

I still have the original radio, which I never listened to. But after a recent long trip I decided to get some sound, other than our favorite 351, to keep me company.

So I bought two 6" speakers for the foot well and 2 little tweeters which I installed in the front pillars. I have a crossover unit in the glove box for easy access. But it still sounds like crap. Very tinny. No bass. I tried connecting a remote sound system to run through the car speakers and it still sounds too treble even though the speakers I got are a good quality. But to hear it on the road I have to crank it up and it distorts. So before I buy a new radio, or a power amp, I need to fix this "lack of bass" problem.

It looks like I need to get a sub woofer. I would have to install the sub woofer in the foot well and then relocate the 6" speakers. Since the door panel idea looks bad and isn’t the best place for sound distribution, the headliner system looks like a great idea. Especially since it would be a good place to install new dome lights to replace that ugly yellow lamp. Unfortunately, it sounds like a very complicated fitting job like every other "simple" Pantera bolt on.

Did anyone get a good fit right out of the box from any of our vendors' systems as opposed to the Whitney?

Fair enough. No sarcasim.
The overhead speakers are the ideal location for sound in the Pantera.
The speakers can be upgraded to ones own taste.
Because of the location I personally don't think that additional base is necessary.
I like clarity in sound. The high location accentuates that.
It may be possible to find enough space for a medium size sub behind the passenger seat, towards the floor. Certainly the front trunk could locate a monster sub.
The installation of the speaker console is really a snap.
It is not something that anyone should fear.
A small amp is plenty because of the speaker location.
I do have lowered floor pans so considering how tight the Pantera cabin is it is possible that a tall driver like me would have problems with a helmet on without them.
Again if you locate the console as far back to the glass as possible there should be just enough room for you.
I used a few pop rivets to hold the flanges to the interior roof frame rails under the trim and didn't find it necessary to recontour the shape of the unit in an arch upward like some have stated.
I would suggest though that the wiring supplied be replaced with adequate quality larger gauge wiring.
What's really great about the overhead is that you don't hack up anything in the installation.
It occupies unoccupied space.
The doors are not the place to place speakers. Did you ever notice how speakers in that location in a P have no grills? That's because you keep kicking them when you get in and out.
The footwell has likewise problems. I have also noticed that my knees don't hear well either. (oops I forgot, no sarcasim).
Just my $.02. I hope it helps. That is all it is intended to do.

take a look at this website. Blaupunkt has a thin series of speakers that look interesting. They have always had a good rep for quality. They have 6 inch speakers that require a mounting depth of less than 2" (1.63" actually) The 12" sub shows a depth of 3" they don't list a depth for the 10".

http://www.blaupunkt.com/us/loudspeakers_122.asp


the thing I like about the kenwood unit I installed is that it is self powered unit with a built in amp and volume control. you can see the volume control in the picture I added above.

Gary #06984

GREAT TOPIC !!, does anyone know if the overhead system will fit with a roll bar installed?...............THANX..........DAVE

Yes it will. I had Halls 3 point in the car with the overhead system also.
I'm eventually going to go to the bar in the engine compartment (where it belongs) and sold mine to LPB.

Doug,

Will that be a full 6 point cage through the rear window or a 4 point with a loop in front of the gas tank and stringers back to the rear wells?

Julian

I'll tell you when I get there, if I get there.
The biggest problem with these type of roll bars/cages is that the driveline needs to come out.
At one time Hall had a nice one that mounted on the engine side of the glass and had tubes that ran inside the rockers to the front wheel wells.
The idea of bracing the rear tubs to the top of the bar was not dealt with and for my intended use, I don't know if it is necessary.
The option of it is comforting though.
Since my car is built more along the lines of a Group 3 car it could fit the concept.
I want to use the car and don't want it off the road anymore now, or ever.
So if it ever happens, I don't know.

I had the Kenwood sterio that had the door that would flip over when turned off. I bought this from Hall quite a while back for my blue car. I also had the amp in the front trunk and I used the best wires I could buy and changed the speakers and wires in the overhead system also from Hall. I am getting ready to put a system in my red car and went to Crutchfield on the internet and found another Kenwood sterio with the door that electronically flips over (like Hall sold only a much nicer, top of the line model). When the Hall unit was turned off it had a decal that looked like a radio delete plate, like the Pantera came with. So I went to my sign guy who does all my graphics for my business and he copied the look of the radio delete plate so I can put this on the new sterio. I also got the Kenwood subwoofer for behind the passenger seat, and a nice Kenwood amp for the trunk.

My car already has the door panels hacked up, so I'm kind of stuck with that. However, adding the overhead would fill out the sound. I guess the door depth would prevent getting any real bass out of speakers placed there. I like the idea of the powered woofer.

Rapid....

How much would you charge to have your sign guy make one for me?

Thanx,

John
yes, it's raining in Seattle

quote:

Originally posted by Rapid:
I am getting ready to put a system in my red car and went to Crutchfield on the internet and found another Kenwood sterio with the door that electronically flips over (like Hall sold only a much nicer, top of the line model).

Which Kenwood model would that be? I'm interested in that myself.

Matt,

I have a Kenwood system with flip face/removal face. It is model # KDC-X689, mounts happily in the vertical, is a single in dash CD (or can be hooked up to a multi-disc changer), MP3 player etc.

I got it from Larry Stock (PPC, Reno) complete with the imitation decals to look like a radio delete plate when switched off.

Julian

Matt, I ordered the KDC-X689 also from Crutchfield I paid $349.99. I do not know what Larry sells them for. If you send me your address I will send you one for nothing. I had him make about a dozen of them for me. He had made two different sizes for me because i was looking at this other sterio with a similar look but I liked the Kenwood better. I will have to get it out and see which size fits the Kenwood.