Speeding Defense?

60 in a 30? Ouch!

Sorry to read that my friend!

Ouch is right....
That's going to hurt....

If that had been here in Arizona, it would be criminal speeding...Anything over 17 mph over the speed limit is criminal in Arizona...

Should have told him you were just trying to maintain a safe distance between you and the cars behind you....

i've ben lucky so far! My car is faster than a speeding ticket!
Tim

Beautifuly in-car shot Deeb. The new high-tech interior looks great.

As far as fighting the ticket goes ... There is a book available called "Fight that ticket in the province of Ontario" (paperback). It may be for the Province of Ontario but the tips could be equally applicable in Quebec.

I have successfully fought all my tickets using the techniques described in the book. For example: Normally, exceeding the speed limit must be substantiated over a fixed distance at a constant speed. (The accepted norm is 1/4 mile). This is done, so as to remove the defence argument of errors in the police measurement technique. eg. You can ask the policeman over what distance was the measurement and how many measurements were taken. You can argue that the movement by the radar, policecar, etc. in a non-steady state may have contributed to an erroneous reading on the part of the police (more and other details in the book).

In all cases it is worth while to take it to court. Usually the prosecutors would rather save the courts' time and offer you a plea-bargain. You can then negotiate a more acceptable penatly if you pled guilty.

I wish you luck.

Bohdan

Deeb,

Definitely worth fighting these things, my recent 'Exhibition of Speed' for breaking the wheels loose pulling away from a junction carried a $220 fine and a whopping 8 demerits. The lawyer got it reduced down to $90 and a speeding 5-10 over the limit (1 demerit). Yes it cost me $1,500 in Lawyers fees, but the alternative insurance increases on 5 cars would likely have been worse, besides which it was just plain wrong and you can't let the bastards beat you.

My experience is to get anywhere you need to work within the system (i.e. feed the system, it eats $$) and get a lawyer. On a previous passing in a 'no passing zone'. I tried to fight it myself and the cop just plain lied on the stand. Guess who the Judge beleived

Julian

Tell him your cruise controll was malfunctioning. Or that your speedo read kph not mph. Or that the light was in your eyes. A Pantera firend of mine was driving his car in SoCal, years ago. A couple too many "pops" at the local stand. He had just installed his Euro Speedometer because it is cool and reads 300kph. Bad if you have been drinking...

I just got caught 76 in a 60. It was a trap, the limit dropped and the Trooper was waiting. There were lots of tracks in the median where they were working the area. he said I HAD to come to court or have a lawyer there for me. It was 4 hours from home. 3 days later I got a letter from a law office. It seems if I send $350 to 450 they can get it reduced to a non moving violation. It ain't fair.....

Well, I have successfully defended many tickets. This video was just a first test of how to shoot in car. I plan to win this one. I just posted it because I loved the sound!

Anyhow, here's my planned presentation I will make to the court, whenever I get there:

SLIDE ONE
I have a google earth shot of the exact location where I was tricketed. I indicate my path, TURNING left onto this street, after stopping for a red light.

SLIDE 2
Here I show the location of the radar cop and indicate where I got stopped and ticketed by different cop down the road. All these are laid out correctly.

SLIDE 3
Now I indicate the google earth measuring tool to show the area that could possibly have been captured by radar, based on his position. I detail the area and define the minimum and maximum distance I could have travelled in this area.

SLIDE 4
Using the maximum distance, I then show a linear acceleration calculation formula to determine how fast I could possibly be going after turning onto the street until the furthest possible location where he could have got me on radar. The unknown is my speed at the end of the distance. The known factors I use are the max distance I could have travelled and the max speed possible.

SLIDE 5
To show the maximum speed possible, I refer to a Road and Track Test of a Detomaso GT5 - with a 0-60 time of 5.5. Based on the formula I use, it shows I would have needed another 150+ feet to reach the speed shown on radar.

SLIDE 6
Now all I have to do is show a video of my nav screen, as I travel that same maximum distance, with some decent engine noise, yet never reach the ticketd speed. That's the hard part. Based on initial tests yesterday, my car destroys the Road and Track 0-60 times, so it looks like I will have to use 1/4 throttle and add the sound effects later.

CLOSING:
In the end I will simply say, "Your honour, yes I was over the 30 mph speed limit. But not even a Ferrari could have reached 60 mph in that distance. As my screen indicates I was only going about 40, which is exactly what I claimed to the officer when he ticketed me. But he refused to look at my screen."

"This was the first time out with the car, and the first time I had used the new nav system. I tried to show the officer the recorded data which clearly indicated "Maximum Speed Recorded" which was only 45 mph but he ignored it claiming the other officer gave him a speed of 60 and that's all he knows. Clearly there is something wrong here."

THE VERDICT:
Assuming the judge never heard of a Detomaso, and the two cops who will be in court have never visited this PIBB, and no one else in court knows anything about physics or linear acceleration, I should walk away with 1 or 2 points and $150 instead of 5 and $400. And no legal fees either."

Don't worry. I'll come visit every now and then. Heck, I'll even look after your car for a few years.

$20.00 bucks and I'll keep my mouth SHUT!

So, that's your defense, huh?

I picked up a ticket yesterday, and am thinking about fighting it. I was at least 1 km from the cop, maybe more, when he zapped me with instant-on. The Valentine One went off and I slammed on the brakes, immediately bleeding off the 40 kph that I was over. I was convinced there was no way he could have gotten a reading on me from that distance. However, obviously I was wrong because he did pull me over and write me up. After he handed me the ticket, he asked if I have a radar detector. I answered "yes" and he said, "I thought so, because you slowed down quite a distance away." He could not have measured my (rapidly declining) speed for more than a second or two at a kilometer's distance.

Do I have a chance?

Peter I have no experience with cases involving laser, but you could easily win a case based on radar. Here's why....

ALL manufacturers of radar equipment specify that the police agency must run so many seconds of "history" on your speed in order to verify the readings were not erroneous. If you reduced your speed quick enough and the officer was unable to collect data for the time specified by the radar manufacturer, you have the ticket beat. If memory serves me, that time is normally around 20 to 30 seconds, but it varies a bit from manufacturer to manufacturer.

So you contact the police agency and find out what make and model of radar equipment they use. Bring the written instructions from the manufacturer to court, specifying data must be collected for a certain number of seconds. Present this to the judge. You then ask the arresting officer to present his history for your speed. Case closed, you win.

There are books and web sites that cover this in much more detail.

Here in California another method used to beat speeding tickets involves the "radar survey" for the road in question. The law stipulates that in order for the police to use radar, the road must be "surveyed" every so many months to insure that radar can be operated withour interference on that section of road. Governments being what they are, there is never enough budget to keep up with those road surveys, they are almost always out of date. So you pull the survey records for the road in question, bring a copy of the vehicle code specifying the road must be surveyed every so many months, and prove to the judge the road's survey is out of date, by law, they have no case against you. I have no idea if similar laws are in force in British Columbia.

Whatever you do, never ever admit to an officer how fast you were going, if asked just tell them you're not sure. They take notes and record your replies to their questions, and will use them against you in court.

George

In New York ..they only want the money .. If you go to your court date and see the cop before the court ... they always show up before court and meet with the people. He will negociate the ticket for no points ... but you have to pay the FULL BOAT on the fines ... unless you have a curtouesy card ... then your free to go when he pulls you over.

Mr. Berman, Very interesting senerio you describe to the court. We all understand the perfrmance ratings of the GT5S. However the car that was tested in Road and Track is fitted with model year factory installed engine. It would so please the court if you could describe any modifications that your car may have. It is obvious to the court that in 1985 cars were not equipped with GPS systems. Perhaps someone has changed your BORE, STROKE, and COMPRESSION RATIO! IS THIS THE CASE MR. BERMAN! Can't you just cop a plea bargin and not have to appear? Your gonners man!

quote:

Mr. Berman, ...It would so please the court if you could describe any modifications that your car may have.

"MODIFICATIONS??? Why, my car is totally stock! - Well, OK, the gas cap is totally stock..."

So long, Dude.

Deeb,
Was it radar or laser? What were the road conditions (drizzle, clear)? Same questions for you Peter.

Blaine

In NY, even with Ladar, the officer is required to observe the vehicle for a minimum distance.

I'm thinking 1/4 mile but I wanna say 1/2 mile.

This is another technicalaty where if you can prove that the distance was lessthen required, then it is a dismissal.

The problem in NY is that some of these infractions become misdomeanors because of the extent of the violation. The term is aggrevated violation. Those the DA gets involved in and doesn't want to negotiate anything and you are better off with an attorney.

Try $600 for the attorneys appearance to plead, $1,800 to represent you before trial and $2800 if it goes to trial. Plus expenses, cost of expert whitnesses, etc.

It gets a little pricey. If you can get it for no points and 6 hours of safety classes, take the deal.

Incidentally, F.Lee Bailey has gotten himself off, read as case dismissed, on three DWI cases that I know of. It isn't really that hard to do, but there are pitfalls all ova da place!

Peter, David - I too was zapped the other day .. except mine was with a camera. A measly 6 kph over the city street limit netted me a 15 euro fine and no points. Then, for the ride home ... I'm cruising the autobahn at 130mph in the Bimmer..and it was completely legal. Go figure.