Suggestions on 4V Head Rebuild

and if the original seats are serviced-out just use a valve head diameter slightly larger to edge out into new material and start over. FWIW i've heard doing seats in Cleveland heads is not text book and no walk in the park. special shallow seats are required and knowing how deep you can cut is critical.

check out Bill Diehl's comments in this thread,
http://351c.net/board/index.ph...n-flow-bench/page/2/

especially " a lot of research was done to see what kind of seats would work, there is water under there

Intake  2250-1.810-375

Exhaust 1750-1450-325   they where custom made be CHE, an off the shelf 1750-1370-375 would need to be cut down "

The BS story that leaded gas cushioned valve seats was a scare-tactic made-up by the petroleum industry in the mid to late 1960s because they wanted to continue using lead as a cheap way to boost fuel octane … in spite of the public out cry to remove lead from our environment. There was no truth, substance, or proof to the petroleum industry's claim. The cars from the 1960s continued to operate just fine after lead was removed from pump gas.

I've never had to put seats in a Cleveland cylinder head … any head I've disassembled the seats were in great shape,  the valves is where I discovered wear … and that was with OEM iron seats.

I owned a Mach I Mustang, drove it as my daily driver for over 250,000 miles. The engine was still running strong when one of my sons crashed and ruined the car. No valve seat issues had developed in that 250,000 miles.

Cleveland seats need to be installed "shallow" to avoid hitting water jacket. The probability for ruining the heads while installing seats is high. 

However, if you're going to install seats, install seats that are compatible with the valve material. Stainless steel is not a "hard" or "tough" material. I put stainless valves in the same class as titanium valves. Use iron or beryllium copper seats, never hardened steel. Same reason valve guides should be either iron or bronze alloy.

4vandproud posted:

and if the original seats are serviced-out just use a valve head diameter slightly larger to edge out into new material and start over. FWIW i've heard doing seats in Cleveland heads is not text book and no walk in the park. special shallow seats are required and knowing how deep you can cut is critical.

check out Bill Diehl's comments in this thread,
http://351c.net/board/index.ph...n-flow-bench/page/2/

especially " a lot of research was done to see what kind of seats would work, there is water under there

Intake  2250-1.810-375

Exhaust 1750-1450-325   they where custom made be CHE, an off the shelf 1750-1370-375 would need to be cut down "

 

The increase in flow of Bill Diel's iron Cleveland heads isn't because the inside diameter of the  pocket under the valve is reduced with a valve seat insert, it's because it is a five angle cut.

My AFR Windsor heads came that way and as a result with 185cc intake ports flow, get this...297cfm at .550 lift.

My A3 Cleveland heads flow 330cfm @ .600, but that's with a 3 angle cut.

Some of this current technology is Vodoo! It's shocking that it is just this "simple".

I don't know how great an idea it is to use a thinner seat insert? First the insert itself is weaker because it is thinner, second it isn't reinforcing the head casting as much.

Don't do inserts unless you need to save the head.

Ford head castings are relatively thin in the valve pocket area.

You are likely going to ruin the heads if the seats get cut too deep.

Thanks Doug and George for the comments. I disassembled the heads and inspected all the seats. There are no chunks missing or cracks in the exhaust or intake seats. l won't have hardened seats installed. 

The valves are not the original OE triple groove valves, but I think I'll swap all the valves out, get new seals, have the seats and valves ground with a 3 or 5 angle valve grind and move on.  I will also changed out the springs based on some of the sticky's George has posted, likely PAC 1900's.

The machinist said he would check the guides (intake guides have been done) and also clean up the pockets under the seats...which would be fine. 

At this point, all I want is a reliable set up so I can jump in a drive a few times a week and not have to be concerned about reliability issues.

Thanks again for all the experience and knowledge.