Tach gear

Now my questions :
Is it possible to have a zf wich works, without the 2 long screws ?
Where can I get a tach gear ?

Here's where to get parts.

RBT Transaxles....


Me, myself, I would not run the box without the two long bolts, because it is likely the case will leak. As you may, or may not know, there are shims that go with the long bolts that are necessary to align all the case covers.


You should look around and see if you can find the ZF Manual. You can find it for free if you search, or if you are a member of POCA.

Rocky

This is the zf

I know this is not what you will want to hear, but a refurbished transaxle that is missing the two critical long bolts would cause me to believe there was no refurbishment. If in fact something was done I suspect anyone that could leave out those two bolts would be challenged to properly assemble the internals to the transaxle, also.

Part of the assembly process for the bottom cover and the long bolts involves shims that must be properly set up. Just installing two long bolts at this point means you also are gambling on the proper installation of those shims. .

The back up switch is easily found as is the speedometer angle drive which I believe you are calling the tach adapter. You should be aware that the speedometer drive and speedometers comes in various versions and they must be properly matched to properly display mileage and speed.

Good luck.

Larry

Here a detailed picture.
I hope that the seller read this article and have so much charater and solve this problem.

Oh my God!

I just studied your first photo and it is beyond me how anybody could install the side plates in that manner. More than ever I fear you need a transaxle disassembly and rebuild before you can expect that transaxle to function instead of blowing up.

The person who sold you this transaxle is either very stupid or very dishonest.

I am sorry you became his victim.

Larry

Correct

Yours - basically upside down

Peter, knowing what you now know, I don't think you should use this ZF without someone knowledgeable opening it up and checking it out. The only person close to you that I can think of is Roland Jaeckal in Hamburg. Failing that, it needs to come back to this side of the Atlantic. If it turns out the seller misrepresented the state of this transaxle, you should give him a chance to make good, which probably means taking it back. Other options are selling it for parts, having it rebuilt by a professional or commencing litigation. I'm sure we'd all like to know who sold it to you. Use the forum to put pressure on the person who sold it to you. George, is that OK?

On a side note, I spoke with a Superformance rep at the Monterey Historics this past August. They are now using the Quaife 5 speed transaxle that's interchangeable with the ZF, in their GT40 replicas. I think it's called the ZFQ. He said there were problems early on but those problems have been solved and Superformance now uses them in their GT40's unless the customer insists on a ZF (RBT). He said the ZFQ does shift better than the ZF. He thought they were made in either the UK or Germany, which is better for you than shipping another ZF across the pond. You'd have to find out if they can flip it from the GT40 position to the Pantera position. Years ago they said they could but I've never seen it done. Good luck !

I agree with everyone else on here about getting a professional to look at it, but it seems like you could also put it in every gear and make sure it does what it's supposed to.

That may make you feel better or worse.

Use the knurled shifter control and a light grip with either a matching splined u-Joint, or a vice grip, and shift the tranny into each position.

Then turn the input shaft, and count the rotations on the drive flanges. You should be able to see if the ZF is...

a) able to shift / goes into all gears
b) doesn't lock up
c) turns in the correct direction.

Good luck

Rocky

Thanks for all your words and your help!
You are great !
The seller have a verry famous racing pantera.
The zf was repaired in portugal from a man called eduardo.
I realy hope that I get a email from the seller,
because, I bought a new refurbished zf and I get this !

What racing Pantera?
When Roland not can rebuild this for yo there are probleby also repair shops into France or the UK
Simon

Hi Simon, its a guy from Brussel. He sell me the ZF as a fresh rebuild transmission.
The ZF was at the repairshop in portugal, when he sell it to me. 4000 euro were only repair costs, he said to me.

the ZF was shipped direct from the repair shop to me.

It was packed very insufficient, so there were some parts broken.

A repair shop here in Austria looked at the zf and invoiced the broken parts.

The insurance from the shipping company negoate a price with the seller.

I take the money , but the seller was verry clever, of course he is a lawyer :

He handet out the money, and I had to confirm, that I am happy with the zf now and I will not have any claims in the future.

My mother was very ill at this time, so I hoped that the rest from the ZF is in good working order, so I signed the agreement.

thank you all for your help !

this is a copy from his email, when I asked him, what is done in portugal with the zf :

"Hello Peter,
the details I received on the invoice were :
- assembling and disassembling the gearbox several times to take measurements and finally assemble the gearbox and adjust all gears.
- rectify the whole assembly
- new parts,bearings, sleeves, syncronizer rings
- manufacture of different sets of pinions."

For me It sounded verry good!

this was the "service" company :

http://www.garagemaurora.pt/

Update : I opened the zf and search for a german zf manual

And for gaskets and the 2 long screws ☺

I change left and right sideplate and it seems to be ok right now

quote:

Originally posted by GT4Peter:
Update : I opened the zf and search for a german zf manual

do you mean written in German?

Here is an English copy

http://www.thecarnut.com/Manuals/Bora_Transaxle.pdf

Yes please written in German. My Engish is so bad.

I can not understand how to adjust ring and pinoin.

Peter, I have some of the 'ZF manual' written in German, but not all the usual pages are present. There were several 'manuals'- for a dash-zero (GT-40), dash-1 (Mangusta) and dash-2 (Pantera). Not all of them are the same- parts vary, including castings and sequence of the work needed. For overhaul, even the best of them are only 40 pgs (in english) with photos that don't show critical operations, missing views on how one uses the factory tools for setting up, and so forth. This is from an actual printed-in-Germany (in english) factory manual. Available reprints are far worse.

It probably won't help you much, but one owner said that he found working on his ZF was very similar to overhauling a Ford top-loader 4-speed transmission from late '60s Mustangs.

Sent me your real e-mail address so as to not waste George's bandwidth on the Forums, and I'll compile what I have as pdf files. Just don't expect to read the manuals and then tear a ZF apart & reassemble it competently.

For me, the most important thing is how to adjust the side ball bearings and the ring and pinion

Pm sent ☺ thanks again for your help ☺

The zf inside.
Where are the shims to adjust the bearings ?

Hello, Peter

What is all that metallic debris at the top of your picture on the bearing housing? That certainly shouldn't be there after competent rebuild.

Sorry to point it out.

Rocky

Rocky, you would hope to not find that before a complete rebuild ! That metal isn't the result of normal wear.

I think they forgot something

Do you know where the shims should be ?

quote:

Originally posted by GT4Peter:
I think they forgot something

They forgot the fact they have absolutely no business rebuilding a ZF transaxle!!!!


Ron

quote:

Originally posted by GT4Peter:
Do you know where the shims should be ?

The shims should be under the bearing races.


Ron

This shows a shim (#907) under the bearing cup.

John

quote:

Originally posted by jb1490:
This shows a shim (#907) under the bearing cup.

John

That is correct John. There are usually multiple shims under the races (usually with a total measurement in the .020"- .035" range each side) .

Ron

Thanks a lot Ron.
Ok there are no shims!

They youst plug the bearing ring in without any shim !?
I think , I will email the seller.
I paied for a zf in good working order.

What do you think ? Should I talk with the seller? Or are we able to repair this zf ?

Peter,

Of course you should contact the vendor before you do anything. He might have sent it out to be rebuilt, paid the bill and didn't even open the crate before shipping it to you. If so, he might feel bad enough to take it back. That would be your best case scenario. He might want to hold the rebuilding shop accountable (which only he can do).

If he won't even talk to you about it or denies there's anything wrong with it, he's clearly a crook and you should do a service to all of us and say who it is.

Having it rebuilt is a last resort. If the chunks of metal in the photos are any indication, a rebuild might be expensive; very expensive. I'd say missing shims are the least of your worries, where this ZF is concerned.

David, you are right! The problem is: when he take it back, I have no Zf for my car

Or he advise me to ship it back to the "repair shop"

All those options are not good for me.

Peter,

I realize this is a difficult situation for you. It seems to me, you have two options: send it back to the vendor for a refund (if he'll take it back) or send it to someone qualified to rebuild it. Option #1 is the better choice as Option #2 could be a bitter pill to swallow. After all, these gearboxes aren't cheap to refurbish. Have a talk with Roland Jaeckel. He'll know someone who's qualified to rebuild a ZF and he probably knows the guy who sold it to you too. His insight in that regard might help. Lloyd Butfoy (RBT) could probably refer you to someone in Europe who's a qualified ZF technician, if you aren't comfortable asking Roland.

Hi Peter – I agree with everything that David said.

A quick way to check the quality of the rebuild is to look at the ring gear attachment and verify that all the bolts are safety wired.

UPDATE: I see on page two of this thread that at least the bolts on the ring gear have holes on them for safety wiring. That's a good sign....

But in my opinion, right now you don't have a working transaxle. You need to figure out that problem, rather than holding on to the one you have just because it is a ZF. At the top level, yours seems to have problems that should make you very worried about what other issues might be inside.

Rocky


P. S. I also agree with David that you should call up Roland, or maybe reach out to some of the German members for some advice. Good luck

Update

I found an older zf mechanic guy

He will look at my zf in the next two weeks. He is in munich and worked for zf the last 30 years

Peter,

Be careful. You need to use someone who has specific knowledge and experience with our ZF 5 DS-25/2 transaxles. Transmission mechanics will all say they can work on it but can you afford to take a chance? Check your guy out with Roland and/or Lloyd Butfoy. If they've never heard of him, I'd suggest you keep looking. Ask your guy where he gets his parts from. If he says anything other than RBT in California or Roland, walk away. Keep in mind, the last guy who worked on your ZF must have said he's qualified to work on it too!

I'm sorry to be so negative but it's just too specialized and expensive a component to hand off to just anyone. Your guy might be OK but make sure before you entrust him with the job.

Hi David, thanks for your words. This older machanic has made a lot of DS25 and he is working right now for ZF. I will get a invoice and a previous offer wich states the damagend areas. It is direct from ZF. They also have all the special tools for the DS25. This will be send to my seller, so he can also send this later to his "ZF mechanic" .
I hope this all will work.
Thanks a lot for your words again!

you are great ! Thank you all for your help! :-)
Sorry that I am here in Austria, otherwise I would make a big detomaso- Friends party now !

Thanks !