Hi.
Dos anybody knows where the roof on the red car on the front page are comming from ?
Is it from a Porsche 924/944 ?
Kjeld
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Don Byars has done a lot of work on that Pantera. You might want to contact him.
http://fullthrottlepanteras.com/
http://fullthrottlepanteras.com/
In talking to Gary Hall about that car, circa 1992, the front roof section was made from the original roof section that they cut out.
It may not literally be from the same car, but there were both new roof panels available then as well as more than a few Pantera "parts cars".
The difficulty as I was told was in fabricating the latch mechanisms to hold it to the windshield.
I don't know about glass panels for the roof, only heard of this entire project in passing discussions with Hall about it.
I was interested in the roll bar assembly that had rectangular aluminum beams inserted into the rocker panels and bolting through to the front wheel wells.
The main loop of the roll bar was in the engine compartment and bolted into those aluminum beams.
He promised me one of those but never produced any other than what went into his car.
In asking Bob Byers about it last year, he didn't want to talk about it at all and said "no way" when I asked him to build one for me.
Maybe I had bad breath over the phone?
It may not literally be from the same car, but there were both new roof panels available then as well as more than a few Pantera "parts cars".
The difficulty as I was told was in fabricating the latch mechanisms to hold it to the windshield.
I don't know about glass panels for the roof, only heard of this entire project in passing discussions with Hall about it.
I was interested in the roll bar assembly that had rectangular aluminum beams inserted into the rocker panels and bolting through to the front wheel wells.
The main loop of the roll bar was in the engine compartment and bolted into those aluminum beams.
He promised me one of those but never produced any other than what went into his car.
In asking Bob Byers about it last year, he didn't want to talk about it at all and said "no way" when I asked him to build one for me.
Maybe I had bad breath over the phone?
I'm not sure which "red" car you're referring to, a targa roof and a sunroof are two different things.
The targa roof of Michael Elio's red GT5-S targa was a factory job, DeTomaso contracted the targa roof installation to an Italian coachbuilder called Pavesi.
Gary & Bev Hall owned a Pantera they called "Purple Passion" which also had a targa roof. That targa roof was installed in-house at Hall Pantera. Information can be found in Pantera International issue 97.
Gary Spratling owns a red Pantera with a sun roof installed by Don Byars. The installation is what I'd expect from Don, perfect.
-G
The targa roof of Michael Elio's red GT5-S targa was a factory job, DeTomaso contracted the targa roof installation to an Italian coachbuilder called Pavesi.
Gary & Bev Hall owned a Pantera they called "Purple Passion" which also had a targa roof. That targa roof was installed in-house at Hall Pantera. Information can be found in Pantera International issue 97.
Gary Spratling owns a red Pantera with a sun roof installed by Don Byars. The installation is what I'd expect from Don, perfect.
-G
George, Does Gary Herrig own a red targa?
Seems he sent me a copy of profiles that featured his targa car on the front cover plus an in depth article.
Seems he sent me a copy of profiles that featured his targa car on the front cover plus an in depth article.
Gary Hall had a Pantera he called "Big Red". It had a power, retractable sunroof from an '80's 911. Gary Spratling's Pantera has a removable roof panel but I don't know what it's from (Don Byars will). It looks like a Porsche 924/944 roof panel to me. A sunroof installation would not require reinforcing the chassis, like a targa top installation does.
I recall hearing Pavesi added 400 lbs of chassis reinforcement when building the factory targa top GT5-S and Si Panteras.
I recall hearing Pavesi added 400 lbs of chassis reinforcement when building the factory targa top GT5-S and Si Panteras.
quote:Originally posted by IndyDave:
George, Does Gary Herrig own a red targa?
I've never seen his car in person.
It is my goal to eventually know all North American Pantera owners & their cars. But I'm not getting any younger.
quote:Originally posted by David_Nunn:
Gary Hall had a Pantera he called "Big Red". It had a power, retractable sunroof from an '80's 911. Gary Spratling's Pantera has a removable roof panel but I don't know what it's from (Don Byars will). It looks like a Porsche 924/944 roof panel to me. A sunroof installation would not require reinforcing the chassis, like a targa top installation does.
I recall hearing Pavesi added 400 lbs of chassis reinforcement when building the factory targa top GT5-S and Si Panteras.
I had asked Gary about the sun roof in Big Red and he said it started in a Porsche. Everything about it had to be altered to make it fit.
I don't know if it is a metal panel or glass panel. I never saw big red in person.
I went investigating Porsches. The original Porsche unit, as I recall, was only 8 to 10 inches wide.
The Pantera roof structure isn't big enough to take it in stock form if you want it to slide back into the roof.
I personally always thought that it would work if it fliped up and slid back like some of the current aftermarket roofs do, and might work aerodynamically?
Yes. Purple Passion is the Hall Targa car. Gary said even with all the reinforcing the car still rattled and he would never do another one.
There were a couple of original GT40s that were converted to targas way back. 1965 ish.
The judgement on them was that loosing the roof structure compromised them too much handling wise since the intent of their use was to put them constantly on the ragged edge.
As I recall it was Miles who tested them and rendered that opinion.
I think that there were originally two GT40's that had "their roof cut off" and at least one was returned to a coupe. I think one still survives as a roadster.
There is a big similarity between the tub of the GT40 and the Pantera. The roof is part of the structural integrity of the chassis.
Hi.
Thanks for the information.
I think the roof i am talking about is the same as David is talking about Gary Spatling`s Pantera (924 or 944 Porsche roof)
I know it is not a real targaroof, as i remember it is a metal plate you can remove so you have a open roof. but i think in the 70 and 80 Porsvhe call this type of roof on 924 and 944 for targaroof.
Kjeld.
Thanks for the information.
I think the roof i am talking about is the same as David is talking about Gary Spatling`s Pantera (924 or 944 Porsche roof)
I know it is not a real targaroof, as i remember it is a metal plate you can remove so you have a open roof. but i think in the 70 and 80 Porsvhe call this type of roof on 924 and 944 for targaroof.
Kjeld.
Kjeld,
The 944 sunroof was hinged at the front, and had an electric mechanism that would lift the rear about 3". The 924 had a similar sunroof but I'm not sure if it had the electric lift the 944 had. You could also remove the sunroof on both cars. When the cars were new, there was a company that made tinted glass panels to replace the solid roof panels. You still see them on eBay from time to time.
The 944 sunroof was hinged at the front, and had an electric mechanism that would lift the rear about 3". The 924 had a similar sunroof but I'm not sure if it had the electric lift the 944 had. You could also remove the sunroof on both cars. When the cars were new, there was a company that made tinted glass panels to replace the solid roof panels. You still see them on eBay from time to time.
This is the 911 sunroof. This is what I thought Hall put into Big Red?
It had to be shortened to fit the smaller Pantera roof.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5v-l3hdanic
I never saw either with a glass panel, but hey, how many Porsches with sun roofs are there to begin with?
I think the main issue with someone making one for the Pantera and offering it as a kit is that it takes up head room in the Pantera?
The thought of the Targa is more of the idea of the mirrored t-tops in the Corvette that any other car.
That is a nice set up and gives a great panoramic view from the cabin.
It had to be shortened to fit the smaller Pantera roof.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5v-l3hdanic
I never saw either with a glass panel, but hey, how many Porsches with sun roofs are there to begin with?
I think the main issue with someone making one for the Pantera and offering it as a kit is that it takes up head room in the Pantera?
The thought of the Targa is more of the idea of the mirrored t-tops in the Corvette that any other car.
That is a nice set up and gives a great panoramic view from the cabin.
quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
I never saw either with a glass panel....,
The glass panel was an aftermarket offering known as a "Saratoga Top" for the 944 / 968.
Here is another way of doing a sun roof. The panel opens out and slides back over the top of the roof.
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Here's one. Looks a lot like the one in the Mangusta show car.
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Incidentally, here is probably the one that started it all.
FoMoCo contracted with ASC (American Sunroof Corp), later to become ASCMclaren (also built Mclaren Mustangs), to do sun roofs in Cougars and Tbirds in '68.
This is the Cougar version. Didn't sell any at the $3200 price. I wonder why?
FoMoCo contracted with ASC (American Sunroof Corp), later to become ASCMclaren (also built Mclaren Mustangs), to do sun roofs in Cougars and Tbirds in '68.
This is the Cougar version. Didn't sell any at the $3200 price. I wonder why?
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The pictures of big red in "Panteras for the Road" show a very narrow (I would say 12") sunroof. When opened, it slides back and under. It is steel, painted body color.
Good pictures there for anyone interested.
Good pictures there for anyone interested.
quote:Originally posted by Panterapatt:
The pictures of big red in "Panteras for the Road" show a very narrow (I would say 12") sunroof. When opened, it slides back and under. It is steel, painted body color.
Good pictures there for anyone interested.
The big two page picture does show the car with the roof closed. It is solid and painted red.
This adds credence to it being a 911 rather than a 944 roof.
I think the 911 is 12" and Big Reds was narrowed to 8" to make it fit in?
I tried to talk Hall into making one for me in a kit form I could install. Wasn't going to happen.
He did say that the aerodynamics of the car were such that he could drive the car in the rain with it open and not get wet.
I thought it never rains in southern California? I heard that somewhere before?
yea really, like he was driving big red in the rain in SoCal. OK sure.
Sounds a little contrived
Sounds a little contrived
It was his story. Not mine. He said he was coming back from a car show in San Diego and had to stop and put the wipers on the car.
He wasn't trying to sell me a sun roof. He said he would never do one like Big Red's again. It was too much of a hassle.
He wasn't trying to sell me a sun roof. He said he would never do one like Big Red's again. It was too much of a hassle.
There were sunroofs in 68 Cougars, not sure what you mean. I don't think I would want a Pantera with a sunroof.
quote:Originally posted by popsrcr:
There were sunroofs in 68 Cougars, not sure what you mean. I don't think I would want a Pantera with a sunroof.
Count me out if I want to go topless I drive my Mustang conv:-)
quote:Originally posted by Joe 1974 L #6656:quote:Originally posted by popsrcr:
There were sunroofs in 68 Cougars, not sure what you mean. I don't think I would want a Pantera with a sunroof.
Count me out if I want to go topless I drive my Mustang conv:-)
I know a woman that drives around all the time with the top down...and she doesn't even own a convertible?
Perhaps I should visit New York.
quote:Originally posted by popsrcr:
Perhaps I should visit New York.
You aren't missing much.