valve identification

> I keep talking all this high speed 150+ 6000 rpm stuff.
> Then george posts pics of a dropped valve.

The head of mine came off at less than 3000 RPM, a couple of hours into
a rebuild. A friend had it happen twice. Someone was kind enough to give
him a set of brand new Ford valves. He thought the first was just a fluke.
It wasn't.

> Is there any way to tell if the original 2 peice valves have
> been replaced, other than remove the heads.

If you look down at top of keepers they should not butt together.
If they do, then it has the multi-groove, loose-fit, keepers and likely
the original valves. This isn't 100% accurate as there are tight fit
aftermarket keepers for the stock multi-groove valves. Compressing
a retainer to expose the valve stem would show the grooves. Also,
replace the retainers as they are none too strong.

> I don't guess the have a little logo on them anywhere do they?

My intake valves had the Ford logo on them but you've got to remove
the heads to see.

Dan Jones

Stainless steel is non-magnetic, I'm not sure about the oem valves, I'll check tonight when I go home & let you know.

I like setting a cylinder at TDC, compressing the spring & seeing it with my eyes, it eliminates all doubt. Once you get a valve cover removed, and if you have the spring compressor, its no big deal. Just make sure you're at TDC, so if the valve slips, it doesn't slip out of reach. DOH. Some guys remove the spark plug & stuff rope in the cylinder before turning the cylinder to TDC, the rope crams against the valve, so it cannot drop. Running air into the cylinder would also hold the valve up.

Your friend on the DTBB, George

[QUOTE]Originally posted by george

I like setting a cylinder at TDC, compressing the spring & seeing it with my eyes, it eliminates all doubt. Once you get a valve cover removed, and if you have the spring compressor, its no big deal. You mean seeing the grooves in the valve and the visual on the keepers like Dan says, right?

Right LPB. If you compress a spring, remove the keeper & retainer, you can see with your own eyes exactly what you have, i.e. single groove valve stem or multi-groove valve stem.

by the way, I checked, the tips of the Ford valves are magnetic, BUT, the tips of the stainless steel valves are magnetic too, because they have a hardened, non stainless steel material welded on the very tip, above the keeper groove, to make a more durable surface for the rocker arm to press against. So a magnet will not help determine which valves you have.

Oh well.

George

> Stainless steel is non-magnetic

There are various types of stainless steels: ferritic, martensitic, austenitic,
and PH (phase-hardenable) with a wide range of differing properties. Some are
magnetic, some aren't. Some rust, some don't. In general, austentic alloys
are relatively non-magnetic when compared to martensitic or ferritic alloys.
Austenitic alloys are formed by adding nickel or manganese (or a similar
face-centered element). I've had two batches of the same part number valves
and one batch was magnetic and the other wasn't.

Dan Jones

Now you see why George should design a system that doesn't use reciprocating valves at all??? He should design a head that won't let the valves fall down inside the cylinder ever. When George and I retire, we will work on this for everybody. Just to save our engines for posterity and such.

I thought PH was precipitation hardening.

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel_Jones:
> Stainless steel is non-magnetic

There are various types of stainless steels: ferritic, martensitic, austenitic,
and PH (phase-hardenable) with a wide range of differing properties. Some are
magnetic, some aren't. Some rust, some don't. In general, austentic alloys
are relatively non-magnetic when compared to martensitic or ferritic alloys.
Austenitic alloys are formed by adding nickel or manganese (or a similar
face-centered element). I've had two batches of the same part number valves
and one batch was magnetic and the other wasn't.

Dan Jones

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel_Jones:
>I've had two batches of the same part number valves and one batch was magnetic and the other wasn't. Dan Jones

Well, thats kinda weird, same valve, 2 different versions of stainless. I'll bet they're manufactured off shore, if you know what I mean.

Dan, The idea just popped into my head, a way to check for stainless valves without disassembling anything. I had never checked a valve with a magnet before. You know, genius at work! I grabbed a valve off the shelf that night, the head was not magnetic, the stem was not magnetic, but the tip of the stem was. DOH! So I checked the manufacturer's web site, sure enough, they weld a hard metal on the tip for durability. There goes my stroke of genius. I consoled myself with a few buttery nipples.

quote:

Originally posted by DeTom:
Now you see why George should design a system that doesn't use reciprocating valves at all??? He should design a head that won't let the valves fall down inside the cylinder ever.

DeTom, I know how much you like high revving engines, you want to design a valve train that revs to the moon. the current Yamaha 600cc sport bike, I think the model is YZF600, has a 17,500 rpm red line, off the show room floor, using conventional DOHC valve train. that's not a misprint, 17,500! No Formula 1 technology, just valves, springs & cams.

quote:

Originally posted by DeTom:
When George and I retire,

Just when is that my friend? I'm ready.

Your friend on the DTBB, George

> thought PH was precipitation hardening.

You are correct. A bit of brain fade on my part.

Thanks,
Dan Jones

I got about fifeteen more years to go and I should be able to retire at full bennies. But if my 401k starts looking good or it looks like the world is gonna end, I might pull the rip cord a little early.
Sure little tiny valves can work at high rpms cause they have very little mass to accelerate but then you need bunches of them. Worse of all they have a tree trunk called a stem, right there smack dab in the middle of the flow, blocking they way and causing turbulance. We need like a sliding door that slams open and closed. We also need to get away from mechanical actuation as that leads to power loss. I have reformed my goal George, I only need ten grand redline. That way we won't have to pop for taller gears to hit the magical 200 mph mark.