Vehicle Height with 17” rims

My '74 sat a little higher than I would have liked with 17" wheels and 335 tires (minus the shock spacers). The a-arms were not quite level. The rebuild will include new shocks to address that.

It looks like you have a bunch of weight off the car at present i.e. decklid etc. I'm sure that will make some difference.

I trust that tire is mounted on the right side just for wheel fitment eyeballing, right?

Julian

Julian,

I wondered if anyone would catch the way it was mounted. Yes, I just threw them on to check fitment and height.

I agree that the deck lid, etc. will probably drop the car some but it seems like it will still sit very high.

Do you remember how high yours sat before new shocks, etc., or do you happen to have any pre-shock pictures? Thanks.

I was never quite happy with the ride height of my car, even with the spacers removed. It took a set of Konis from Pantera East to make it have the height I wanted. Here is a link that might help you http://www.panteraplace.com/page212.htm

Mike

My car has 315/35/17s (without spacers) in the rear and 205/50/16's in the front.

Hope this helps...
Billy #3382

Another pic

last one...

Billy,

Thanks for posting the photos. Your car looks great. If mine will sit with stock shocks and no spacers like that it would be great.

I have the same issue as you 315 35 17 tires and stock shocks, even with the springs removed. What made it worse is I plan on moving to 335's with aftermarket springs so have a better fit plus allow me to adjust the ride height. In prepping for this I rolled the lips on the rear wheel wells so it made the spacing issue more obvious to me. To the average Joe, they don't see it but I do.

Whenever I take a picture of the car, I always make sure I don't get the lense too level wit the wheels.

I have another set of stock springs that I've thought about going ahead and cutting but haven't gotten around to it.

BTW

Check out EVODIndustries add for his Budnik 18" wheels. Very nice price and will solve those tire caps even with stock shocks (I think).

GL

Not to overcomplicate the matter, but like most things when we start fiddling with tire diameters, ride heights, etc, there can be other impacts. It’s worth noting that the majority of wide rubber tire choices opted for by Pantera owners today are typically smaller in diameter than original equipment. These end up being in a fairly narrow range for stock bodied cars but when you start fitting flares, it expands the choices and thus related issues much more.

So when a smaller outside diameter tire is selected, this actually drops the car by half the reduction in tire diameter. Then aesthetically, the eye notices a slightly greater gap between tire OD and wheel arch, and this of course also creates a little more wheel well clearance so the car can be further lowered.

A lower center of gravity is certainly a good thing to the extent the result allows sufficient ground clearance for a practical street car (if that’s your goal), but here are a couple other things to consider.

Reducing tire diameter will lower the overall gearing of your car. This may provide a little improvement in acceleration but will increase engine rpm at cruise; a factor many Pantera owners grapple with. The affect of these changes tend to be subtle but not insignificant over the range of choices. So for example here are some popular tire diameters mentioned in recent threads and 2500 rpm 5th gear speed.

315/35/17 = 25.68” diameter = 64 mph
335/35/17 = 26.23” diameter = 66 mph
OE Tires = 26.5” diameter = 66 mph
345/30/19 = 27.15” diameter = 68 mph (my Choice)
345/35/19 = 28.51” diameter = 71 mph

...and there are of course many other combinations in between these tire diameters and you aren’t going to get the last two into stock wheel wells on narrow body cars.

You can play around with Mike Daley’s or RBT’s spreadsheet and conclude in this range you get about 36 rpm change for every 1 mph, or in the examples above you get a about a 250 rpm difference across the entire range of tire sized at 66 mph or half that on either side of the OE tire size. Still in other terms, for those of you that consider gearing changes, for constant rpm of 2500 and 66 mph in 5th gear, it’s equivalent to changing your ring and pinion from ~4.4 to 3.95 across the entire range. Is any of this significant? -You decide.

Then there are suspension impacts to consider. Though it may require change of shocks, you can adjust your suspension to desired ride height. Most generally shoot for lower rear A-arms parallel to the ground because +- travel about this point tends to have minimal affect on rear wheel geometry. In the front suspension of the car we start talking about happy mediums for wheel well clearance at full lock and bump steer. Again, there are more choices and the game can change with flared cars especially if you are custom fitting them around your wheels. Bigger front wheels mean you can fit bigger brake rotors. With the wider rubber possible with flared cars you become more aware of the caster and scrub radius limitations of stock suspension are going to affect handling behavior for wider front wheels. –Lot’s of trade-offs.

Best Regards,
Kelly

Garvino,

I recently dropped an engine into my car and have encountered the near identical situation you described. This car has not had an engine in it for 30 years. I am running 335/35/17s with the shock spacers still installed and have 5" of tire clearance to the fender lip-- even with the added weight of a Big Block. It is also high in the front.

Have you found a solution using the stock coils/shocks or did you end up with an aftermarket solution?

Matt

...I made sure to Measure the Height of the RearMost Decklid LIP/Edge Before and after I removed All 4 Spring spacers! Yes! The Measurements, Afterwards WERE Taken after Driving the Cat Vigorously to 'Settle' the suspension out! The Difference?

The Rear becomes Lowered Exactly 1.0"! The Front, about the same.

The Front Spacer is 1/2" Thick; the Rears are 9/16" Thick! It's the Ratio of the 'A' Arms!

Be sure to leave the Rubber Shims IN! They keep the Springs from Squeeking on their Seats!

I Threw All 4 Aluminum Spacers into the Recycle Bin!...

I understand from an icon in the industry that any good new modern spring will not compress much after you run it awhile. I found that to be the case with my new Pantera East Koni setup. In contrast to that, I’ve seen a number of Panteras that had been off the road for awhile that set much higher than they should when first put back on the ground. After a few weeks of road use they settled down to normal height. I’ve also noticed that not all stock springs are created equal, e.g. some springs seem to compress more than others.

The other thing I’ve found that most owners know, is Pantera body parts are not exactly symmetrical and that makes it hard to compare one car to another.

Here are some measurements of my car with stock type Konis with the spacers removed. Measured at top of wheel arch opening to ground with almost a full tank of fuel. LF 24 13/16” RF 24 7/8” LB 27 1/4” RB 27 3/4” I have 335/35ZR17s on the back and 245/45ZR16s on the front. With my new Pantera East Konis I lowered the back about 3/4” more and the front a little over 1/2". I still have a bit more than 1/4” nose down rake measured along the bottom of the front and back edge of the rocker panel. After driving it for 19 months I think I’m about as low as you would want to be for the street. At the lowest point I have 3 5/8” ground clearance.

Mike

Pantera L #7341,

I have not addressed the issue yet. I have been trying to get my car 100% ready for the road before the snow hits. I have put the stock rims and tires back on until I figure out what to do.

I had just made the decision to purchase the new coil-overs when I recently found out that most people have to go with an extended upper rear a-arm or a adjustable upper rear a-arm on their cars when they install adjustable coil-overs to lower them. This allows for the proper camber to be set on the rear tires.

I spoke with Quella in Castle Rock a couple of days ago, and he confirmed that most people end up having to do this, however, a few cars can get by without it.

With the increased cost of the upper a-arms and the price of shocks I am going to have to wait to make this large purchase.

Before finding out about the A-arms, I had decided that pulling the stock shocks, removing the spacers, repainting the shocks, and reinstalling the shocks was to much work for a car that probably was still going to sit higher than what I wanted.

I did take measurements of the car when I first set it on the ground last week and took them again today. The car is sitting about 3/4 of an inch lower in the rear after only about an hour of driving. I now am wondering how much lower it will drop with some more driving.

Finally an update on my 17" wheels - they are installed. I did end up going with new Koni adjustable coilovers (forever ago) but just never had the time to polish up my 17 inch wheels and get the tires remounted.

Tires were mounted yesterday and last night I snuck down to my shop and installed them. Here is a pic after a little spin in the car today.

Looks good Devin! I like it.

Steve