The Hall big bore headers are very restrictive in the collector, you'll give up all the $$ you spent on decent heads IMO.

They also tweak under heat as the header flanges are singular not continuous.
I can't think of any under car headers that work to maximize the power potential of a Pantera.

The all have some sort of issue.

Halls headers can have a real collector installed on them although because you are threading the header through the rear suspension it is going to be smaller then what you would want on a set of "drag race" stile headers.

Those would be 3-1/2" diameter by around 6" long.

IF one wanted under car headers and was going to modify them with a collector, Halls are as good as any to work on.

What I would do is match the flanges to the heads and work with an uncoated set. Modify them to fit, then send them out for coating.

The "GTS" headers as far as I know are just made for the 4v iron heads.

The biggest change on aftermarket 351c heads is going to be how the exhausts bolt up and as a result, what flanges the headers are made with.

The Hall set that I have were made to fit the original A3, B302, C351 aluminum Ford "Motorsport" aluminum "high port" heads. Some aftermarket heads went with that design, some didn't and went with the original 4v iron head design?

So if this is still the route you want to go, then whether or not they fit your heads depends on what the exhaust ports of the Trick-flo heads are made to fit? I'm not familiar with them.

If you are interested, PM me, and I'll show you pics of what everything looks like on them?

These look like the original 4v pattern? What header gaskets does Trick-flo say to use on them?

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According to Trick-flow, this is the image of the Felpro gaskets that they show for these heads.

These are the same as for the A3 heads, not the iron 4v.

The headers I have fit these. The 4v flanges won't bolt up to them without modification.

The top bolts will line up but the bottom ones won't and it is unknown if the port location will be oriented right with the 4v's?

Maybe yes, maybe no...don't know on the 4v's for sure?

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Photos (1)
The vendors all have offerings that address both the collector and different head ports locations. If you want to cut up Hall big bores that's okay too, make the cuts so they fit neatly in the trash bin. Big Grin

Wilkinson produced less restrictive GTS headers in mild and stainless and they are well regarded from a HP perspective on dyno results and look oem.

Trickflow heads have "Exhaust port raised 0.1" over stock 2V head"

Julian
quote:
Originally posted by Joules:
The vendors all have offerings that address both the collector and different head ports locations. If you want to cut up Hall big bores that's okay too, make the cuts so they fit neatly in the trash bin. Big Grin

Wilkinson produced less restrictive GTS headers in mild and stainless and they are well regarded from a HP perspective on dyno results and look oem.

Julian


Yes. They're nice. I think he went to the "squished collector" to get them through.

Even so, you need tube lengths in the 34-36" vicinity and tube od's of 2 inches OR MORE to maximize the performance of the engine.

"Under" headers simply can't do that with the Pantera limitations.

You need to go to 180's to approach that, and even there, you are tuning them for a certain rpm.

The people with the "take no prisoner approach" are going to have the biggest frustrations. All exhausts are going to have some kind of an issue somewhere.

None are going to be anywhere near perfect...but then again...define perfect?
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
According to Trick-flow, this is the image of the Felpro gaskets that they show for these heads.

These are the same as for the A3 heads, not the iron 4v.

The headers I have fit these. The 4v flanges won't bolt up to them without modification.

The top bolts will line up but the bottom ones won't and it is unknown if the port location will be oriented right with the 4v's?

Maybe yes, maybe no...don't know on the 4v's for sure?


Hi Doug - thanks for the info on the flanges. Trick Flow told me to get headers that fit a 2V head and yes, the ports are raised .1". I see you are also in NY (I am in NYC), so if your headers fit and we can meet on price, this seems to be a good option. I am not sure I know how to PM you, but I will try now - Joe
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
I can't think of any under car headers that work to maximize the power potential of a Pantera.

The all have some sort of issue.



Pat Mical sells a set of headers that make great power, fit perfectly and have a 3" collector .
I built a 3" under car exhaust system for my car (using his headers and Borla XR-1 mufflers)10 years ago for a 670hp C3 Yates
engine and they were excellent in every way ( except for the price. LOL )

Ron
quote:
Originally posted by r mccall:
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
I can't think of any under car headers that work to maximize the power potential of a Pantera.

The all have some sort of issue.



Pat Mical sells a set of headers that make great power, fit perfectly and have a 3" collector .
I built a 3" under car exhaust system for my car (using his headers and Borla XR-1 mufflers)10 years ago for a 670hp C3 Yates
engine and they were excellent in every way ( except for the price. LOL )

Ron
Well, you highlight part of the issue. That being it is the entire exhaust system that needs improvement, not just the headers.

Many just want to integrate the headers to the existing factory tailpipes and mufflers. They just want a bolt on OR can only do a bolt on.

Plus, I'm pretty sure that Pat's headers are not off the shelf items. He makes them for you on your order.

Part of the issue also is the noise generated by the system and it seems like any muffler in a Pantera is about twice the loudness of that applied to a front engine car that has enough length in the system to tame some of the beast roar.

I have noticed that it is far more common to dyno an engine with "dyno headers" rather then the exhaust that is going into the car? Right there that is almost like a "hocus-pocus" deal where one really won't know what the actual gain was without testing with the intended exhaust system.

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