What is a must to do ?

Read sticky #3 and #4, it will answer many questions for you.

Im no expert, but I've read enough about Webers to know you need a special cam to run webers, so I'd inquire about that for sure.

I've read that 2 bolt blocks are fine, unless you're going for super high RPM's. I believe almost all the cleveland blocks are 2 bolt.

There are others here that can help you with what head/piston combos to run as well.

I've learned so much from this forum, the knowledge within the people on this forum is incredible.

Yes Mike, I also heard that the webbers can go with a harder cam...
But wich one is the best ?

Are ther any domed pistons wich I can use with the closed chamber heads ?

if you're looking for the lifter bore restrictor bushings, www.lifterboretools.com

factory stock valves are garbage, throw them as far as you can (must)

flat top pistons with closed chamber quench heads will make over 10:1

quote:

Originally posted by GT4Peter:
Are ther any domed pistons wich I can use with the closed chamber heads ?

You want flat top pistons with closed chamber heads and with open chamber heads too.

Dome top pistons require more ignition advance and generally mess up the combustion chamber dynamics

What do you think about the
er: K32-240-4 crane crankshaft?

looks like a Comp part number?

more commonly referred to as the 306S

http://www.summitracing.com/pa...4/overview/make/ford

I may be off but I think the Webers like a smoother running cam than this drag race / hot rod style of cam

you should really get some suggestions from someone that knows how to cam for Weber carbs

As I've learned here about running Webers, you need to run a different cam specially made for running Webers, because cams with too much overlap cause fuel to be spit back up, causing a reversion cloud above the carbs and this will soak your air cleaners with fuel, and can be a fire hazard, even without air cleaners.

There's special cam grinds for running webers.

You can run any cam that you want to.

The issue is that if you are going to run any kind of a filter over the stacks then you need to eliminate the fuel reversion.

What will happen if you don't is that the filer elements will get soaked with fuel and WILL catch fire the next time you try to start the car.

Jim Inglese had CompCams design one, although there are a couple of other cam companies that make them also.

The key specification is that the valve overlap has to be held to under 30 degrees total.

I believe that the CompCam spec was 28 degees. Coincidentally the Ford 4v Cleveland hydraulic cam overlap is 28 degrees as well.

One of the issues with these "Weber cams" is that the overlap does two things. It provides pressure to the intake cycle in pressurizing the plenum of a conventional intake manifold with a common plenum and pushes mixture into the next opening intake valve.

It also provides an exhaust presurization, a negative one, i.e., suction that helps the exhaust headers "scavenge" (suck out) exhaust from the exhaust valve.

If you reduce overlap, you reduce scavaging of the exhaust also.

You definitely are giving horsepower away there in the exhaust as a result.


Back in the day when these Weber individual runner manifolds were run on race cars, they used the same radical overlap camshafts in the engine as they would have with a single Holley manifold.


The 69 Boss 302's also ran an individual runner manifold initially with two Holley Donimator carbs. They had reversion of fuel also.

They used a flat aluminum plate, ostensibly for keeping foreign objects out of the open stacks, but really primarily for collecting the atomized fuel vapor in one place and permitting it to drain (drip off) in a safe place.

In the Ford GT40, that is what the alumimum "cookie sheet" over the carbs is all about.

My opinion is that if you are going to worry about running open stacks and need to cover them to feel comfortable, go to fuel injection.

You will have no reversion with that since there will be no fuel held in suspension with that system, the fuel injector shoots a timed and measured quantity of fuel into the intake port.

Actually there can be a small amount of reversion with those fuel injectors depending upon where the fuel is being shot, if it is all being sucked into the intake port or if some can't be used and it is bouncing off the port wall or valve and going the wrong direction BUT that has to do with the adjustment in tuning made with the computer.

It tends to be a non-issue though.

Primarily with Webers, you just run a stainless steel screen over each stack. How you engineer that though is another subject.

306S overlap... 86* @ .015"

http://www.compcams.com/Compan...s.aspx?csid=862&sb=2

it's also an .842" tappet lobe, not optimized for .875" tappets

There is at summit a full set :
COMP Cams Magnum Solid Cam and Lifter Kits K32-240-4

what du you think about this cam?
Using DOAE HEADs and Flattop pistons...

Not much. It is way to radical for a street car.

Will need to idle around 2,000 rpm.

Do you think it is good for the track? I want to race with it...

For me, even for a race car, it is too radical.

I like this one better and it is the one that I am using.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-k32-239-4

It is ok for the street the way I use the car, but is too much cam for a car that you would want to drive everyday and in traffic.


With the heads that I am useing, Ford A3, with the .605 lift, the heads flow 330cfm on the intake.

That is more than the engine is capable of using.

It is putting the power range in the 4,500 to 6,500 rpm range yet will rev way over 8,000 rpm but I don't need that level of rpm.

I have it idling at about 750 right now with the Webers.


The cam you are asking about is .640 lift. With a 5.7 L engine, there is absolutely no point in that with either the iron 4v heads, with my heads and probably any of the other high port heads UNLESS you plan on running the engine to 8,000 to 8,200 rpm REGULARLY.

Even if you do, be prepared to rebuild the engine after every race or even an extended high rpm jaunt.

With a Cleveland UNLESS you are seriously drag racing the car, you don't need to go more than around 6,700rpm on a road track.

At that rpm in 5th gear you are going to need to be a very skilled driver to not crash it.

It is likely to be as fast or faster than almost anything of it's era that you are running against.

It is powerful and agile. That is the highest level you can achieve with it.

I would suggest though that if you decide to buy the Compcam camshaft DO NOT buy it as a kit.

The lifters that CompCams supplies have the large Chevy oiling hole in the lifters.

The Ford Cleveland with solid lifters REQUIRES a smaller oiling hole to maintain pressure to the main bearings.

Those lifters are "Johnson" lifters. Ask George Pence for the part number for those. I don't remember the number. He may have it listed in the "Engine Sticky"?

Also if you plan on reving the engine regularly over 7,000 rpm it would be a VERY IMPORTANT thing to install lifter bushings in the block.

If you stay under 7,000 the lifters bushings are pretty much optional.


Also, you are going to need a much heavier balancer than the stock 4v unit that came stock in a Pantera.

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

... If you stay under 7,000 the lifters bushings are pretty much optional ...

I felt the same way most of my life, because in my younger days installing bushings was an expensive proposition. It was a universal "rule" that hydraulic cammed engines didn't warrant the expense. The expense was the actual issue. Believe me, the bearings of hydraulic cammed engines weren't problem free. But since hydraulic cammed engines generally weren't "pushed" as hard as solid tappet cammed engines complete bearing failure wasn't a problem, just excessive wear. But that eventually leads to low "hot oil" pressure. I banged my head against this issue throughout the 1970s and 1980s.

Then one day about a decade ago it struck me that Denny's kit is only $400. People spend more money than that on valve covers. So I changed my opinion. First you have to realize the lubrication system's problem don't turn off and on like a light switch at 7000 rpm. They are present at lower rpm, they simply worsen as engine speed increases. Grocery getter 2 barrel carb Clevelands experience bearing damage too. Second you have to experience just how much better the lubrication system performs with bushings installed. I wish people would try the bushings out before they chose to steer people away from them. The bushings do more than fix the lubrication system, they "hot rod" it, and at $400 I don't consider their benefits optional. Their benefits are easily worth $400! Consider this, with the bushings in place, the choice of tappet wouldn't matter.

The tappets mentioned by Doug are the Speed Pro AT2000 solid flat tappet, manufactured by Johnson Lifters. They have the Boss 351 metering plate oil metering system. Also sold by Crower Cams under part number 66915X980-16P. When you shake them they rattle, like a hydraulic tappet, but they aren't hydraulic.

Thanks a lot ,
I only read about the o.h.o cam and that they used it together with domed pistons on my doae heads, so I thought a cam wich is near to those datas would be ok for me

The Specs: 

advertised duration = 326°/334° 
duration @ 0.050" tappet lift = N/A 
duration @ 0.100" tappet lift = 233°/238° 
0.564"/0.587" net lift (0.025" lash) 
102° lobe separation angle 
126° overlap (that's not a typo) 
Intake lobe centerline = 101° ATDC 
Intake valve closes @ 84° ABDC 

quote:

Originally posted by GT4Peter:
Thanks a lot ,
I only read about the o.h.o cam and that they used it together with domed pistons on my doae heads, so I thought a cam wich is near to those datas would be ok for me

The Specs: 

advertised duration = 326°/334° 
duration @ 0.050" tappet lift = N/A 
duration @ 0.100" tappet lift = 233°/238° 
0.564"/0.587" net lift (0.025" lash) 
102° lobe separation angle 
126° overlap (that's not a typo) 
Intake lobe centerline = 101° ATDC 
Intake valve closes @ 84° ABDC 

That is an old technology cam. Compared to camshafts available now, that one makes no sense whatsoever.

I don't even understand how it works at all.


Wyandorf machine has the bushing "kits" for $400. You can do them yourself but before you put the engine together. As George says , "it's a deal".

If you have already built a street engine, I wouldn't tear it apart to install the bushings (which you will need to do). A race engine should already have had them.

If it isn't put together yet, by all means install the bushings. As "they" say, it won't hurt?

Not to taint anything but many engine builders have found that if they recommend the bushings, they get the work. Makes sense.

Thanks a lot for your Tips arround the engine.
I am from Austria /Europe so it is verry hard for me to buy from different suppliers.

My Engine is a two bolt block and the doae heads.
I have a weber intake and only stock pistons.
Stock rods.
Can you help me to get the engine running?
The Problem here in Europe is that nobody can Balance a crankshaft.
So I would need a complete ready to go set , but this is verry expensive to ship.
It is realy terrible here in my country. Even nobody have a Tool for give new bearings for the cam!

quote:

Originally posted by GT4Peter:
Thanks a lot for your Tips arround the engine.
I am from Austria /Europe so it is verry hard for me to buy from different suppliers.

My Engine is a two bolt block and the doae heads.
I have a weber intake and only stock pistons.
Stock rods.
Can you help me to get the engine running?
The Problem here in Europe is that nobody can Balance a crankshaft.
So I would need a complete ready to go set , but this is verry expensive to ship.
It is realy terrible here in my country. Even nobody have a Tool for give new bearings for the cam!

In looking around, it seems that your request is on the unusual side.

All of the shops that I know of balance your parts.

You may be able to find someone willing to do a package for you, including the flywheel and balancer, but I don't know of anyone and it is pricey to ship.

You also will not be in control of the selection of the components.

MME, Mark Mckeon, was in favor here at one time. I don't know now. Perhaps George can help you with this?

I do know of a piston manufacturer that will make you pistons TO ANY dimension of overbore that you want including the rings.

The pistons are around $500 for the set. Rings $100. Let me know if you want that contact information?

Seek Willi Braun (Heidesheim, Mainz-Bingen) for assistance. Perhaps he'll be found searching under RennPantera.

Or try Roland Jackel from Germany , he Alway is kind to help
Simon

Hello thank you, I think the best for me is to buy a running block and bolt on everything I have...

Does anybody knows a company who is able to deliver me a good block ?

We have two engine Shops here in Austria and never heard from mallory metal ...
Also I do not want to go to Germany.
So I will sell my stock block and buy a running block...
I think it is easier ...

What do you think about Speedmaster products?

They have verry cheap but how is the quality ?

http://store.speedmaster79.com...take-valves-set.aspx

the price is the best indicator of the quality

Speedmaster/Procomp is a case where I doubt you even get what you pay for

Run!

RUN!!

BTW, the valve length they listed is a LOT shorter than stock replacement 351C valves

I've found them listed @ 5.230" for the intakes & 5.05" for the exhausts

have a look at http://www.alexsparts.com/cate.../FORD-351-CLEVELAND/

I noticed the guide cutters are listed under 351M/400
http://www.alexsparts.com/cate...ORD-351%7B47%7D400M/

here is the best current price I can find for the Lisle 18000, ships worldwide
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lisle-...279&vxp=mtr#shpCntId

But the lifters are ok from this brand ?

Go here. They have everything that you need or want. The parts are all made in the USA. No Chinese stuff.

http://www.precisionengineparts.com/

These are the suppliers to companies like Edelbrock, AFR, etc.

Prices are very reasonable and the parts really are the state of the art at this moment.

You will need to open a commercial account with them and can do it all by email. They will and do ship overseas.

You open the account with a $100 first purchase. You can use a CC.


If you can't find what you need here there are only two possibilities 1) you don't need it 2) you don't know what you are looking at and don't know what you want.

The company is in Las Vegas, NV.