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What's your opinion on the Be(a)st oil for Panteras?

G Guest
What Oil Is The Best And Why:

Not knowing a doggone thing about the subject, yet ready to do the Pantera Oil Change, I consulted my neighbor, Donald Tr***.

Donald has had many show cars, classics, hot-rods, etc., but now is heavy into RV's and motorcyles. Donald is swearing to the virtues of Valvoline and the next best Pennzoil, and berates Havoline as THE WORST, having qualified himself as rebuilding many dozens of engines over the years, and stating that Havoline engines had the worst deposits and the fewest miles before overhaul and quite the contrary with Valvoline and Pennzoil.

Further, Donald T. states that he is using this High Temperature 15-40 wt. oil in his RV and says his RV buddies are getting way more than 100,000 miles on their RV engines. He was really THRILLED to offer up DEMONSTRATIVE EVIDENCE that his RV takes a beating. He handed over for my inspection a rubber valve stem cap, explaining that he has metal valve stems. The 'cap' was a blob of molten rubber with valve stem threads still visible.

That demonstrated to me that he climbed the mountains in Colorado, and went down them, and not only were his brakes smoking and his chrome rims red hot, but his engine was probably in the same STRESS SHOCK state on the way up those mountains, as he was trying to be polite and not let 25 miles of cars back up behind him as he climbed those mountains. (He lacked physical evidence to show me for the load demands for the ascent.)

He did not have a Quart sized bottle of Valvoline to proudly show me (as he interrupted his RV washing job just to show me his tool drawer on the RV and demonstrate his expertise simultaneously). Nope, he pulled out the ole HIGH TEMPERATURE PENNZOIL 15-40 wt. and said, I ALWAYS CARRY SOME ONBOARD.

I'm thinking I wanna ask for a second opinion, like ask you guys, but seeing as to how our Panteras are sort of under some heat and stress loads, now and again, well, I'm sorta inclined to go with the same thing the RV guys are going with. Unless I can induce one of you guys to convince me, and all the other readers, of a better logic and product (brand, viscosity, etc.), well then, I think we're all gonna be thinking alike here.

What do you think? And please add any Rationale, like why you believe in what you believe in, 'cause I'd hate to just simply convince everybody without a little debate. Opinions w/o supporting authority are sort of, well, just like saying because I like the commercial.


[This message has been edited by Mark (edited 08-27-2003).]
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IH Italian hot rod (Guest)
And to answer the question (I think there was a question?), I use any national name brand 20-50 wt oil that has a rebate bringing the cost to below a buck a quart, a quality WIX filter (top NAPA brand is WIX), and never more than 3000 miles between changes. I use 9 quarts in my "10" quart pan, a stock pan should use the 6 quarts Ford recommended for the 'Boss' engines. And if your car is a 71-72, make sure your dipstick is not still the originally too long stock model - see TSB #5 (3-16-73).

Larry

[This message has been edited by LF - Teach Peace (edited 08-23-2003).]

[This message has been edited by LF - Teach Peace (edited 08-23-2003).]


[This message has been edited by Mark (edited 08-27-2003).]
O ontherdagain (Guest)
I'm sure this will turn into a opinionated topic, My daily driver (86 Toyota Camry) will have over 300,000 miles by the end of this month, engine untouched except for Valvoline oil changes every 3,000 miles. It consumes (or burns) approx 1 Qt per oil change (city driving). I have no complaints. Can I get that lucky with my Pantera ?? :0)
RN ron norman (Guest)
LF teach peace, you have given an unqualified answer. You are just presuming b/c the viscosity is higher, it must be better. Nothing about how you know it is better. Jim provided info and ontherdagain qualified his statement as well. Do you understand the difference. I guess you meant to tell us all that you have a 10 Qt. oil pan. I'm glad to hear that, but can you qualify your answer somehow? Do you know if any major brand has additives formulated for heat, so the oil won't break down, for example?
M madguy (Guest)
I believe the 3000 mile oil change is a marketing gimmick by our friendly oil companies. Those same oil companies market their same products in europe with 5-7,000 mile oil intervals. In my opinion 3,000 mile oil changes are just a waste of oil and money. As for my cars I only use synthetic. The Pantera and the XJR get Amsoil series 2000 and the SVO (daily driver) gets mobil 1 (until I order more amsoil).
Oil changes:

Amsoil - once a year w/ a filter change every 6 months


Mobil 1 - 7,500 miles (about 3 months) w/ filter change.

I order amsoil about every 3 years and have been very impressed with it. When I drain the oil it still looks new.

Fire away, flame suit on!


[This message has been edited by madguy (edited 08-23-2003).]
bosswrenchbosswrenchMember
If one makes a practice of running REALLY fast in a Pantera, the oil will heat up dangerously high. Synthetic oils such as TORCO, Motul or as a last resort, Mobile-1, will give an extra 25-or-so degrees of heat-protection before the engine siezes. But remember, many oils including synthetics have been forced to re-formulate by the Feds to protect the catalytic converters, and in so doing, have lost zinc and phosphorus additives and some ability to protect high spring pressure flat-tappet cams. Some people thus recommend synthetic oi;s for motorcycles since they don't (yet) use catalytic converters. If you drive 'normally' like I do, 30-wt detergent oil from a major supplier (ANY supplier) works well. Thinner wt oil will free up power & allow driving in colder temps without a long warm-up, while heavier (up to 50-wt) is good for high temperature desert-dwellers. Beyond that, its a personal choice IMHO
IH Italian hot rod (Guest)
Can I "qualify" my answer? Sure.

As I live in the California Central Valley where the winters see temps in the 20's and the summers see temps in the 100's when I take the car out, I like the protection of a multi-viscosity. 20-50 wt is what many owners use and I feel comfortable with that. I drive my car regularly, (8000 miles in the first 9 months), at reasonable :-) speeds, and have a mild (300 RWHP) engine. If you are trying to get 10K between changes or are running track time each weekend, then there may be a need for a quality synthetic, but with the duty my engine sees I don't think ANY national brand of oil has suffered any notable deteriorating effects in 3000 miles. Therefore, I am not brand loyal. I consider a total investment of half an hour and less than $20 to be cheap insurance (whether it is needed every 3000 miles or not) to avoid spending $$$$$ on a rebuild. Those are my reasons for my decisions. Just by virtue of all the snake oil formulas you can find on the shelves and in late night infomercials, oil choices are obviously not prone to unanimous agreement. If any oil brand or snake oil additive could PROVE a distinct, measurable advantage over all the rest, I sort of think it would be information of such importance that every gear-head in the world would get the word in record time. In the meantime, as Jack said, its a personal choice.

I felt a discussion of how our Pantera engines can best be protected by the oiling system should include cautions to the real danger of oil starvation. Even the 'best' oil can't protect an engine if it isn't being pumped. If you do any intense cornering driving with a stock pan you run a real risk of your oil pump pickup sucking air; Ford knew using 6 quarts would help somewhat to prevent this. A 10 quart with baffles and doors removes that possiblity. But the 'too long' dipstick will leave you about a quart low no matter what pan you have.

Larry
parapanteraparapanteraIf you can't fix it with a hammer.....you have an electrical problem.
quote:
Originally posted by madguy:
I believe the 3000 mile oil change is a marketing gimmick by our friendly oil companies. Those same oil companies market their same products in europe with 5-7,000 mile oil intervals. In my opinion 3,000 mile oil changes are just a waste of oil and money. As for my cars I only use synthetic. The Pantera and the XJR get Amsoil series 2000 and the SVO (daily driver) gets mobil 1 (until I order more amsoil).
Oil changes:

Amsoil - once a year w/ a filter change every 6 months


Mobil 1 - 7,500 miles (about 3 months) w/ filter change.

I order amsoil about every 3 years and have been very impressed with it. When I drain the oil it still looks new.

Fire away, flame suit on!


[This message has been edited by madguy (edited 08-23-2003).]


No Flaming here, just adding what I know about oil changes and when/why they need to occure. First, the 3 month-3,000 mile rule stems from the fact that a by-product of the combustion process creates an acid that remains in liquid state in the oil itself. Admittedly, the acid is very mild, but does have the ability to errode metal surfaces, and over time WILL increase rod bearing and piston ring tolerances. Yes, there are oils that boast of lasting "10,000 miles between changes", which is true because the oils molecular structure lasts that long..........but the above mention acid is still present! For those of you that wish to subject your engines componants to such enviroments, go right ahead. As for oil brands, I use Valvoline. Valvoline has the highest concentration of detergents that I know of, it keeps oil passages clear, and keeps the valve covers shining and the bottom of the pan sluge free. And if you REALLY want to clean out an engine, substitute a half quart of oil for a half qaurt of ATF (Auto trans fluid). ATF has a VERY high concentration of detergents, it has to to keep an auto trans operating correctly. Yes, I have done this, and no, with no ill effects. The only noticable effect is that after sitting for a few hours, the thinner ATF get by the valve guides, so you will exhale a small puff of smoke on start up. As for filters, check out http://minimopar.net/oilfilterstudy.html and decide for yourself. Just thought I would post what little I know.

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