wheel spacers

Peter, I have installed spacers on cars before with good success. Never on a pantera and never more than 1". As I see it you will need at least 2" spacers to make it look properly. If you install spacers that do not require the factory studs to be replaced it should work. Please keep in mind I have had success I don't race with them only street use.

Larry Stock at Pantera Parts Connection has CNC milled a bunch of different width wheel spacers to correct exactly these challenges of getting wheels to sit nicely in the fender (wheel arch).

The 10" wheels do offer a deeper dish that improves the look beyond just moving an 8" wheel outboard. You could consider the cheaper 10" aluminum wheels offered by Roin.

I haven't purchased them yet, but I need 2" spacers with a different spacing pattern. I have found spacers that do exactly that. They are drilled for one pattern and have studs offset to match the pattern of the wheels. Using a spacer such as this allow for wheel options that aren't Pantera-specific in their offset or width.

For example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-WHEE...AOSwLVZV2e66&vxp=mtr

A proper spacer will be hubcentric. That means it has a hole in the inside that registers on the Pantera's rear hub and a hub on the outside that the wheel registers on. That way, the wheel and spacer will be perfectly centered and the force of any large impact will be borne by the hub and not by the wheel studs.

quote:

Originally posted by Joules:
Larry Stock at Pantera Parts Connection has CNC milled a bunch of different width wheel spacers

Julian,
where can I found those spacers?
I cannot find them on the website.

Thanks
Simon

quote:

Originally posted by pvan:
I haven't purchased them yet, but I need 2" spacers with a different spacing pattern. I have found spacers that do exactly that. They are drilled for one pattern and have studs offset to match the pattern of the wheels. Using a spacer such as this allow for wheel options that aren't Pantera-specific in their offset or width.

Although the actual studs are metric, the Pantera wheel stud spacing is a standard Ford (5 on 4 1/2 inch), so there should be plenty of wheel options readily available without need for a different stud arrangement.

quote:

Originally posted by Simon:
Julian,
where can I found those spacers?
I cannot find them on the website.

Thanks
Simon

Simon,

Also take a look at Summit Racing they have a lot of 5 on 4 1/2 inch spacing options and widths. I have sent Summit's spacers to some folks in the past.

Julian

Just my opinion on this. Wheel spacers are terribly dangerous on any car but in particular with a vehicle of this speed potential.

First of all they are going to HAVE to be "hub centric" for both the wheel hub and the wheel.

Secondly the safest way to bolt them on is with longer wheel studs, not two sets of bolts, one set bolting the adapter to the hub, then the other set bolting the wheel to the adapter.

That isn't to say that these longer studs are particularly safe to do this with. The longer the stud, the more twisting it will do when torqueing on the nuts.

You can not have threaded areas of the studs in the shear area loadings on the studs. The studs WILL fail through one of the threads.

One will "go", then the others will follow. When they fail, they almost sound like "explosive" bolts in a bail out. Ask me how I know?

Fortunately the car went down "gently", jettisoned the wheel and skidded across a grassy section with no obstructions. It just made a muddy mess. The tire wound up in a tree.

So you really are looking and specially made studs to your application, specially made spacers to your application.

By the time you do all that you probably would be better off just putting a set of 16, 17, 18" Campi "clones" on the car.

At least there you aren't risking your life, someone else's life and the car in a catastrophic mechanical failure?

Those are really pretty spacers but the mass of them also adds to the shear action on the studs.
That entire section of stud that passes through the adapter can't be threaded. It needs to be solid.

Ask any aircraft engineer.

Buy the wheels.

Doug while I agree with you that spacers are not ideal, I have had no bad results. I currently run 1" hub centric spacers on my 2016 Mustang GT. They have been on for 9,000 miles so far.

Everyone needs to assess the risk themselves.

I don't care for it. Been there, done that. Once is enough.


I would recommend that the "hub-centric" dimensions be tailored to the exact dimensions necessary, not a generic off the shelf spacer and positively to use studs that have no threads within the spacer.



Lots of MLB players go through their entire careers without getting beaned.

Tony Conigliaro got hit once in the eye and he was done.

It's all about risk assessment.


Changing the wheels is by far a "better" way to go.

As I said, "in my opinion". It is not one of the 15 Commandments Moses carried down from the mountain, but then again, he dropped one of the slabs on the way down, no one saw it so then there were only 10?

well thats a lot of theories from differing viewpoints.
The cost of New correct wheels is very expensive no matter which ones you buy.

I know that wheel spacers have failed on Mini Coopers and suchlike here in the UK, and did think that my extra width bearings might be up to the job.

But P Doug is on the money here, so I shall start saving up for some Marvic wheels, they are Magnesium and very well made.

Thanks to all though.

Peter,
Porsche used spacers on the early 911 and 930 Turbos to fill out the widebody fenders. Obviously, Porsche knows what they're doing, from an engineering standpoint. They didn't want to use wider wheels and tires because they wanted the cars to be good in wet conditions. They did use tightly hubcentric spacers and stronger 14mm lug bolts. If you're going to use spacers, upgrading to 1/2"-20 wheel studs is probably a good idea.

That being said, when you consider the cost of upgrading to larger wheel studs and having custom spacers made, that pair of repro 10" Campagnolos won't seem so expensive.

quote:

Originally posted by David_Nunn:
Peter,
Porsche used spacers on the early 911 and 930 Turbos, to fill out the widebody fenders. Obviously, Porsche knows what they're doing, from an engineering standpoint. They didn't want to use wider wheels and tires because they wanted the cars to be good in wet conditions. They did use tightly hubcentric spacers and stronger 14mm lug bolts. If you're going to use spacers, upgrading to 1/2"-20 wheel studs is probably a good idea.

That being said, when you consider the cost of upgrading to larger wheel studs and having custom spacers made, that pair of repro 10" Campagnolos won't seem so expensive.

Hello David, Thats another thing I didn't know.
I have only driven one Porsche, a 3.3 litre turbo, down the Nace road in Ireland many years ago, It was a quick car but I was impressed with the Brakes, superb. But the Engine is still at the wrong end. Peter.

I have used custom made hub centric wheel adapters on my wide body Pantera for years without any issues. They are safe. Off-roaders use them all the time and I have never heard of one breaking or coming off. The adapter is bolted to the hub and wheel is bolted to the adapter. The lug nuts holding the adapter to the hub MUST be torqued to 90-95 ft/lbs. Motorsport Tech in Reno Nevada can make adapters to your specs.

Hi Peter -

I still think you will be happier with the LOOK of 10" wheels. It's maybe a little hard to see in this picture, but the front car has 8" rears, and the back car has 10" Campi Clones.

The front car wasn't running any spacers, and you can see the wheels are inset a little, but there's nothing like seeing a wide set of rear tires from behind.

Lots of interesting information on spacers here, but if you can swing the wheels, you won't regret it.

Rocky

Interesting comparison. Great shot. I never checked the offsets on the 8/10's but that looks to me like a really big spacer to make that up.
Maybe 2"?

Quite a slug to add to the rear suspension.

It looks like the 10" Campi puts all the 2" outboard. Inside looks equal.

I was never really a fan of the 10's with the fins. They are quirky, but they seem to belong on the car in a quirky way?

quote:

I was never really a fan of the 10's with the fins....

Sorry, Doug, which fins? Do you mean the deals inside the rim?

I don't see any fins in these shots, just an original Mind-Train '70s Luggage Rack....

Rocky

quote:

Originally posted by Rocky:

quote:

I was never really a fan of the 10's with the fins....

Sorry, Doug, which fins? Do you mean the deals inside the rim?

I don't see any fins in these shots, just an original Mind-Train '70s Luggage Rack....

Rocky

The gussets. They are not showing in that picture.



I suppose that in this case "form follows function"?

They would seem to be engineering "over kill" TO ME but that wheel initially might just have been intended for racing, al la Grp3?

If you look at the detail of the rim between the gussets, the casting is very rough as though the mold was never really detailed there.

The first batch seems to have been a small, probably minimal run of production.



All the Bob Grossman, Nyack, NY, sold cars I saw in the mid '70s here, I saw about six or so, seemed to be all such equipped which is interesting in that my parts guy, a L-M Pantera dealer, couldn't find a part number in the FORD parts system.

I guess that meant that Grossman was buying from DT directly?

Mine have the short gussets, but my wheels were built in '89.

I think the short gusset wheel looks better then my full gusset wheel. The big gussets look like they should be on a '70s Disco van, jacked up, funny fir all over and strobe lights?

I just measured the offsets. They are both the same, 5-1/4 +/- about 1/8".

That does confirm that the 10" Campi wheels have the 2" additional added to the outside on the mounting flange, i.e., increasing the rear track by 4".

So that would take a 2" spacer to put the 8" and the 10" in +/- the same outside track.


On the gussets, I can only repeat what Gary Hall told me, "the original wheel is the one with the full gussets. The mold got damaged, repaired and the gussets got shortened as a result".

He also told me that he had purchased the mold from DT and that it was at the Shelby Wheel Company where they were going to cast wheels for Hall.

I personally don't know if that ever happened but doesn't look like it did?

So take anything Hall said with a "grain of salt".

No date codes in mine.


That discussion started because at the time Hall got $1500 for the NEW pair. Everything I needed on this car required throwing $100 bills at. I ran out of ink to print new ones.

So I asked if he had any USED ones. He said "sure, but I want $2,500 for those". I asked "why, they are used?". He said "because the original ones are rare and worth more".

He had an original "Detomaso" Weber manifold AND carbs too. Don't ask how much. You don't want to know.

Gotta luv Gary.



One other thing, these were just painted silver (Ford argent?) on the outer portion.

The inside of the wheel was painted the gold color like the Grp4 wheels were.

I have no idea if that matters at all? Just sayin'.


The current re-pops vary a little in that they are cast more smoothly and the very tip of the gussets aren't as radiused as these.

Who's going to notice that on the car?

Rocky's photos are of narrow body cars without GTS flares, imagine what the 8" wheels would like with a 2" GTS flare added! For GTS flares like Peter has you probably want 10" wheels and spacers!

Even more reason to get 10" wheels in the GTS case as it allows moving the 8" to the front, rather than spacing them out an affecting scrub radius.

If you look at the last of the 427 Cobra street cars, the CSX3300 series, they have the big "comp flares" with 7" wide "sunburst" knock off wheels.

Back in the day, no one liked them and the thing to do was to put on 11" GT40 Halibrands. Even so, the comp flare still had a lip.

They always struck me as looking like a "Batmobile" with three or four inches of fender overlap.

There are other cars of the era that are similar. In fact, if you look at the 68 Gulf GT40's, the race cars have that big overlap as well.

It all depends on what you want the car to look like. There is no requirement that every .001" of available fender spacing be filled.

In fact I personally have grown to like a big tire with "a little" clearance to the fender.


Here is my 68 GT350 rear with a 295-50-15. That's a 12" TREAD tire, 12.5" section. Look at the clearance to the fender lip. You can put your hand in there easily.

Notice how far the tread extends on the inside?

OK so some are going to say BFD. Fine. That tire has the same clearance as the original 70 series Goodyear Polyglas 235-70-15 tires. Better in fact. Those tires require the fender lips to be bent over to clear them.

Most SHELBY people walk right by not even noticing because it looks stock.

This car is also lowered which you won't notice unless it is parked next to a completely stock version.

CSX3300. This is the way they came new wheel wise. I think that is too much fender overlap but if you see these box stock they can kind of grow on you?

I'm not sure of it's CSX # Doug, but this beautiful Cobra at last weekend's Sonoma Show and Shine confirms your "as delivered" fender/tire overlap observation............

I think that car has 10"x15" reproduction Halibrands on the rear? Wait, 9-1/2" on the rear. The Halibrand knock offs are unusually dimensioned.

The original rear wheel was a 7" but the setbacks on the two are different.

This one looks nice. I'm going to take a guess and say that is probably a "continuation Cobra", i.e., the "originals" are CSX 2000-3000 cars.

The continuation cars bodies are "too good" to be originals.

If you ever look at the cars from the rear, the left fender rarely matches the right. The new cars are close to perfect.

People are getting away from that Incredible Hulk bustin' out look on the tires just a bit.


Aren't the Grp4 rear Campi's 13" wide? That's the way to go with a wide body Pantera, no?


This one is CSX3015. The sister car to the Cosby dual Paxton car. The 3001 to 3054 are the 427 "Comp Car" chassis' and bodies. Like Cosby's it's also automatic. "No need for those clutch dohickie things".

I think Jim Webb is the original owner of the car and here is a pic' of them together.

It's a full Comp body with the big rear fenders. Notice how the tire filled the wheel well even way back then?

To me, there's a difference in the Cobra front / rear wheel positioning, especially obvious in Doug's red Cobra picture.

The front wheel looks good.

The rear wheel is set too far into the fender.

Just my $.02.....

quote:

Originally posted by Rocky:
To me, there's a difference in the Cobra front / rear wheel positioning, especially obvious in Doug's red Cobra picture.

The front wheel looks good.

The rear wheel is set too far into the fender.

Just my $.02.....

Look at the rear spacing on these Stauffer cars. Very similar to the Webb cab.

Yep. It's pretty clear on Simon's white GT5-S, too. His car is on the front page of the forum.


On a different note: did anyone know that "Bristols" not only refer to a type of British car, but a prominent part of a woman's anatomy? It's from Bristol City, which rhymes with t...y!

I just learned this on the Jensen Interceptor board, and it seemed important enough to share. The Interceptors are having a "joint" event with the Bristols in London. I'd like to see that!

I wonder how well they fill their wheel-wells!


Rocky

quote:

Originally posted by Rocky:
Yep. It's pretty clear on Simon's white GT5-S, too. His car is on the front page of the forum.


On a different note: did anyone know that "Bristols" not only refer to a type of British car, but a prominent part of a woman's anatomy? It's from Bristol City, which rhymes with t...y!

I just learned this on the Jensen Interceptor board, and it seemed important enough to share. The Interceptors are having a "joint" event with the Bristols in London. I'd like to see that!

I wonder how well they fill their wheel-wells!


Rocky

Well if you hang out with the street rodders they will just say "check out the lights". Some can blind you?

FYI: SCC in Germany makes TUV/MOT approved wheel spacers. They come with an engineering report.
About 200$ the pair.