Wheels not hub centric

Detailed picture ...

There are adaptor rings to make them hub centric.

I'm glad I asked. I will work on getting the adapter rings. Thanks!

Those lug nuts sure don't give a feeling of security, either.

It looks like those wheels take flanged nuts of some type....

Those are old school Pantera wheels... Maybe you can do some research on the lug nuts, too. Or maybe it's just the picture.

Rocky

I believe that those wheels were made by Centerline and sold through PI Motorsports.
US Wheel Adapters ha made quite a few hubcentric wheel spacers as well as adapter rings for Panteras. Give Doug a call. He can help you . You will need to measure the inside diameter of the wheel. He will have all of the other measurements.
https://www.uswheeladapters.com/

Ron

You are correct. The lug nut covers are stamped with PI Motorsports. I did not know they are made by Centerline. Thanks!

I spoke with Doug and he can make a set of adaptor rings for about $60. He said Pantera hub size is 61.8 millimeters. Mine seem to be slightly smaller. Doug needs the size of the wheel opening in order to ensure a snug fit. I will work on exact measurements of the hubs and wheels before ordering.

Those wheels look to have two sets of mounting holes; The unused ones are chamfered for a stock style lug nut, you would need to check the chamfer angle and get the correct lug nuts and hub centric adapter.

The other holes that you have the lug nuts currently on are designed for a Mag/shank style lug nut with washer. They are designed to be a tolerance fit and hold the wheel centric so no adapter required.

Julian

Both sets of holes are chamfered. The unused set of holes are for a larger diameter bolt pattern. Centerline is still selling wheels with this configuration.

The stock Pantera lug nuts seem to fit the chamfers properly but I will dig deeper to ensure they are compatible.

Okay, they sure don't look like they fit in the photo!

Perhaps a call to Centerline Technical guys would resolve any doubt.

I do not think the original campy wheels are hub-centric. If I recall, the center of a campy wheel is oversized to the hubs. I have had Gotti 3-piece rims on my car for years and they are stud-centric and never had an issue.

To your rims, if they are 5 x 4.5 and you use the correct lug nuts with the right chamfer angle (meaning dont use a 45 degree nut on a 60 degree rim), I don't see an issue.

Ford wheels are 5-bolt on a 4.5" circle. Chevy is 5-bolt on a 4-3/4" circle. You have both.

Original Campagnolo wheels are hubcentric, as are all OEM applications. Gotti's were hubcentric if they were made specifically for the application. If not, they used aluminum centering rings. Saying you use non-hubcentric wheels and have never had a problem is like saying you never use a torque wrench; you tighten all fasteners by hand and have never stripped a fastener or broken a bolt. That very well may be the case until one day when it isn't.

quote:

Originally posted by Joules:

... Perhaps a call to Centerline Technical guys ...

My daughter informed me that Centerline recently went out of business.

Hub Centric Vs. Lug Centric. Hub Centric Wheels are centered by the center bore of the wheel and the hub flange. Lug centric wheels are centered by the torque of the lug bolts; rather than the center bore of the wheel and the hub flange. There are two distinct types of wheels found on today's cars and light trucks.

I promise you the campy rim doesn't align based on the center hub nor does the Gotti.

So what you are suggesting is that Gotti doesn't know how to build rims?

come on dude.

Lee

Aren't "lug centric" wheels always aftermarket? And don't they require special lug nuts with a shank below the seat?
I've never run across otherwise. This would be something new to me.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with lug centered wheels... And yes, I used multiple lug centric sets in my life already, and posting this, I prove to be still alive

Just one example (Basset wheels) - read on


Advantage of lug centric wheels - way easier to mount and dismount. Most racing systems are lug centric too for that very same reason...

I'll add my OPINION....
from observation of a collection of Pantera PARTS and my rough measurements show the Campy to hub is a pretty poor centering fit I was think 0.010". to ME that would not be a "centering" fit and thus the angled face/seat for the lugs provide the centering. Making the practice of rotating the wheel while "running up" lugs is nice to do

I agree with JFB, the campy centerbore was bigger than either of the pantera's front/rear hub faces making them lug-centric. My Gottis, built specifically for the pantera 2 years ago (yes, Gotti still exists and makes wheels in France) are lugcentric and use a standard conical lug nut versus a shank supplied directly from Gotti. Yes, I use a torque wrench to tighten them and am also still alive.

I still have un-good memories of using lug-centric aftermarket 'race' wheels with gumball tires on them and having much trouble changing them at the track. When you're by yourself using only a small floor jack in poor light, wrestling a 40+ lb wheel/tire into position on lug-centered wheels is no fun at all.

Poorly centered or not, two of my 4 Campys balance on the car with only 1/2 oz of weight. So unless corrosion has enlarged the hub bore on your wheels, Campys were at least intended to be hub-centric when new 40 yrs ago.

quote:

from observation of a collection of Pantera PARTS and my rough measurements show the Campy to hub is a pretty poor centering fit I was think 0.010"

I have a set of stock Campy wheels and just now checked the fit of one front wheel to one of my front hubs (currently disassembled) and found the same approximate gap or play that JFB described.

With the Centerline/PI Motorsports wheels and the custom hub rings from Doug at US Wheel Adapters, there would be a snug fit and genuinely centered wheels. I am starting to sense that hub centric has a lot to do with wheel balance. Even a wheel that is balanced with Hunter Road Force but not correctly centered on the hub could be a problem. I am now thinking that hub centric wheels are intended to reduce the likelihood of wheel balance issues.

But now that I can see the Centerline/PI Motorsport wheels on my car, I may change them out with Campy (or clones) and thus not be able to try out the hub rings. While I like my current wheels and am also impressed with their craftsmanship, I'm inclined to stay with the stock look.

thanks for getting out your micrometers! I was thinking I would have to tomorrow since I couldn't find where I recorded measurements.

quote:

Originally posted by Bosswrench:
wrestling a 40+ lb wheel/tire into position on lug-centered wheels is no fun at all.

You can double that weight easily for an average off-road wheel/tire combination! FYI, most off-road steelies are lug centric too. 1, for the same reason as mentioned before (easier to mount/dismount). 2, if you end up in the middle of nowhere, and in need of a wheel because you destroyed one offroading, you a more likely to find a wheel with the right bolt pattern, then for the required hub size. The last set I bought for my Jeep were yes, lug centric too