Need Help with this one! My 87 GTs narrow body came from factory w/rear wing-Leave it on or take it off? Thanks for any imput!!
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The great thing about owning a Pantera is the fredom to mod to your taste. No dress code here, if you like it better without....ditch the wing.
My 2cents
Mark 6808
My 2cents
Mark 6808
Maximus:
I went through the same anst with my GT5. For me, the wing is too boy-racer and detracts from the lines of the car. I've heard it referred to as "that gruesome appendage" and, if I recall correctly, Tom Tjaarda is not big on the wings - or any fibreglass add-ons, for that matter (which hurts when you're driving a GT5). I've taken an informal poll of members of a group of car enthusiasts I go on organized drives with, and most of them prefer it without. In terms of performance, the wing is extra weight and aerodynamic drag without any benefit in either down force or directional stability (it sits too low for that).
That said, if you leave the wing on you will be guaranteed to attract every boy on a bicyle within a five block radius every time you stop for gas. And they will all be convinced the car must go 300 mph.
In the end, I decided to put my wing back on because it is original equipment and I wanted to preserve as much of the stock flavour of the car as possible. Like Mark says, it's a matter of personal choice and the great thing about the Pantera community is that no one will judge you no matter which way you go.
If you are undecided, run for a while with the wing and then for a while without. I installed rubber grommets covered in felt on my wing struts so they don't gouge my deck lid paint, and so I can remove the wing when I feel like it. I plug the bolt holes with cheap plastic plugs I buy at NAPA for a few cents, and it looks great.
I went through the same anst with my GT5. For me, the wing is too boy-racer and detracts from the lines of the car. I've heard it referred to as "that gruesome appendage" and, if I recall correctly, Tom Tjaarda is not big on the wings - or any fibreglass add-ons, for that matter (which hurts when you're driving a GT5). I've taken an informal poll of members of a group of car enthusiasts I go on organized drives with, and most of them prefer it without. In terms of performance, the wing is extra weight and aerodynamic drag without any benefit in either down force or directional stability (it sits too low for that).
That said, if you leave the wing on you will be guaranteed to attract every boy on a bicyle within a five block radius every time you stop for gas. And they will all be convinced the car must go 300 mph.
In the end, I decided to put my wing back on because it is original equipment and I wanted to preserve as much of the stock flavour of the car as possible. Like Mark says, it's a matter of personal choice and the great thing about the Pantera community is that no one will judge you no matter which way you go.
If you are undecided, run for a while with the wing and then for a while without. I installed rubber grommets covered in felt on my wing struts so they don't gouge my deck lid paint, and so I can remove the wing when I feel like it. I plug the bolt holes with cheap plastic plugs I buy at NAPA for a few cents, and it looks great.
This is the ultimate philosophy question for car guys. Keep it stock (narrowbody with the wing) or preserve the classic Pantera lines (no wing).
Are you sure it came from the factory with the wing? And is it documented as such?
If you decide to go without, just save all the pieces in the event that someday you want to have a totally stock car.
As for me, generally stock is better but in this case I'd say no wing. But as Mark says, there's "no dress code here!"
Are you sure it came from the factory with the wing? And is it documented as such?
If you decide to go without, just save all the pieces in the event that someday you want to have a totally stock car.
As for me, generally stock is better but in this case I'd say no wing. But as Mark says, there's "no dress code here!"
My car did not come with a wing from the factory, but a previous owner had added it on. It blocks an already restricted rear view, makes the trunk too heavy to stay up, collects dust and a whole list of negatives. On the other hand, the kids just love it. They go ape over that silly wing. I love seeing them get all excited about it. Makes it almost worthwhile. Besides my wife uses it to wrap Christmas presents on every year. What would she do without the Pantera wing on which to wrap presents?? So for now, thge wing stays. At least until after I have grand kids and see if they go ape over it too. 
Coz always said it made a great serving tray for tailgating and BBQs...
My car also had a wing installed on it by a previous owner. I wasn't originally looking for one with a wing but couldn't pass it up just because it had one. I've removed it several times just to see if I liked the car better without it & really can't decide. One thing that holds me up from removing it is the $$ that would be involved in bodywork & paint to get the decklid holes fixed if I removed it. Peter H. & DeTom are correct about all the kids, they all love it & think it will max out the speedometer. Even my "young" son at 29 years old has threatened to disown me if I take it off 
I'm sure you'll get at least as many opinions on this subject as there are listers on this board, so just do whatever makes YOU happy!
I'm sure you'll get at least as many opinions on this subject as there are listers on this board, so just do whatever makes YOU happy!
Maximus - Are you still fooling around with that car?
Did you replace the exhaust system yet? I still have an exact replacement for you if you want it. Headers all the way to mufflers.
Anyway that said, given that your car is 1 of 1, or possible 1 of 2, 1987 narrow body cars built I think it will be most valuable left as it came from the factory.
Since you apparently seem intent on selling the car anything you do would be best if you kept the car as close to how it left the factory. The car is already "resale" red and with the wing it will attract more attention and hopefully a buyer if that is your goal
Did you replace the exhaust system yet? I still have an exact replacement for you if you want it. Headers all the way to mufflers.
Anyway that said, given that your car is 1 of 1, or possible 1 of 2, 1987 narrow body cars built I think it will be most valuable left as it came from the factory.
Since you apparently seem intent on selling the car anything you do would be best if you kept the car as close to how it left the factory. The car is already "resale" red and with the wing it will attract more attention and hopefully a buyer if that is your goal
I am against wings on most cars. 99% of the time they look stupid. I can't help like the right wing on the right Pantera. If the wings were added recently I probably would not like them. Since the wing dates back to the era of Farah Fawcet hanging over a Lambo with a skimby bathing suit when I was 14, I am afraid it is embeded in me. It looks right, it looks stylish from that era. Lot of people like to put them down because it justifies what they do which I think tells a lot more about them then the wing! I think they look good with or without.
Just no hood scoops on the front trunk please!
Gary
Just no hood scoops on the front trunk please!
Gary
I think this same debate previously determined wings on GT5 and GT5-S cars were okay as that is the way they came from the factory.
Personally I follow that, I'm not too struck on them but for authenticity on OEM later cars (or clones for that matter) they are acceptable.
Peter has the right solution and Coz suggested the same with some plugs to fill the bodywork making the wing removable.
A question that arose in my recent research on the Pantera wing is the width. I see most cars carry a 57" wide wing (aka the Countach wing, which is about the same width as the rear deck lid) however, I found reference to De Tomaso using a 61" wide wing, but I could only find one car that carries such a wide wing. It certainly changes the look to more aggressive. Can anyone on the list enlighten me to the correct wing width on a GT5 Pantera?
Julian
Personally I follow that, I'm not too struck on them but for authenticity on OEM later cars (or clones for that matter) they are acceptable.
Peter has the right solution and Coz suggested the same with some plugs to fill the bodywork making the wing removable.
A question that arose in my recent research on the Pantera wing is the width. I see most cars carry a 57" wide wing (aka the Countach wing, which is about the same width as the rear deck lid) however, I found reference to De Tomaso using a 61" wide wing, but I could only find one car that carries such a wide wing. It certainly changes the look to more aggressive. Can anyone on the list enlighten me to the correct wing width on a GT5 Pantera?
Julian
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Thanks for all responses!! Looks like wing is staying on!! I will check dimensions! also has any one had direct contact w/George Stauffer-He was the selling dealer for this Pantera to Charlie Seabrook-he has all docs and I am trying to get paperwork from him.
I have searched for an internet photo of Fara Fawcett layed out over the Lambo in the poster she did years ago. Anyone find a photo of that?
In my opinion, the narrow cars look best without a wing and the wide ones look best with the wing.
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If for some reason someone wanted a wing that actualy generated a little bit of down force, I think you would need the one from the Plymouth superbird in order to get it into clean air. The bad part of that is no longer can you drive UNDER semi trailers. Now you have to pass the same way everybody else does. But on the up side, you can maybe install the beep beep horn at the same time.
Seriously, the late model GT5 and 5S's look decent with the big wings, but this is subtle enough to suite an early car.
Will
Will
quote:If for some reason someone wanted a wing that actualy generated a little bit of down force, I think you would need the one from the Plymouth superbird in order to get it into clean air.
DeTom, You mean ala Pantera Si?
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I wonder if the Si's wing was optional?
Not really sure what to think of it....
Goran Malmberg raised his delta wing several inches and appeares the most functional of all..
Not really sure what to think of it....
Goran Malmberg raised his delta wing several inches and appeares the most functional of all..
quote:also has any one had direct contact w/George Stauffer-He was the selling dealer for this Pantera to Charlie Seabrook-he has all docs and I am trying to get paperwork from him.
I've met George several times. Looked at a couple Panteras he had before I bought mine. It's been 4 or 5 years though. His place (at least part time) is in Blue Mound Wisconsion. His business was Stauffer Classics. Good guy. He has GT40s. Real ones and tracks them too!!! You can probably find him with a web search. If not let me know and I'll dig out his card.
Kelly
quote:Originally posted by Joules5:quote:If for some reason someone wanted a wing that actualy generated a little bit of down force, I think you would need the one from the Plymouth superbird in order to get it into clean air.
DeTom, You mean ala Pantera Si?
I wish, but unfortunatley no. The air coming off the top doesn't reconnect at speed like on fastbacks because of the hot air coming out of the engine compartment. If you seen that film at bonneville and the wake the Pantera makes you realize it doesn't come back down until like 12 feet after the car. So you have to have the wing up about two feet higher than the roof line to get it into clean smooth air. So your wing needs to be about four feet tall. Yeah I know that looks gay, but it will hold your ass end down when it counts.
George Stauffer has been selling Panteras since the 70s and at one time was the official importer. Never heard anything bad about him.
Aerodynamic wings have to have a serious up-side-down air plane wing shape, plus the vertical end caps, to function at all. Plus as has already been written, they have to operate in clean air.
The device on the back of the Si is flat, and therefore non-functional.
A little 4" - 6" spoiler (air dam) at the rear of the engine bay cover generates plenty of downforce, at the expense of some drag.
I had a '71 Mustang with a factory wing on the back many many years ago. One day as I exited a grocery store, I overheard a lady walking by my car sarcastically comment to a companion "I didn't know those things could fly". She didn't know I was the owner.
LOL......
I went home, removed the damn thing, picked up a spare trunk lid from the wrecking yard & had it painted to match my car.
No wings for me!
The device on the back of the Si is flat, and therefore non-functional.
A little 4" - 6" spoiler (air dam) at the rear of the engine bay cover generates plenty of downforce, at the expense of some drag.
I had a '71 Mustang with a factory wing on the back many many years ago. One day as I exited a grocery store, I overheard a lady walking by my car sarcastically comment to a companion "I didn't know those things could fly". She didn't know I was the owner.
LOL......
I went home, removed the damn thing, picked up a spare trunk lid from the wrecking yard & had it painted to match my car.
No wings for me!
quote:Originally posted by maximus:
Thanks for all responses!! Looks like wing is staying on!! I will check dimensions! also has any one had direct contact w/George Stauffer-He was the selling dealer for this Pantera to Charlie Seabrook-he has all docs and I am trying to get paperwork from him.
Sounds like the correct decision since your car was ordered from the factory with the wing. I'd leave it on also.
Here's Stauffer's website. It lists his contact info:
http://www.staufferclassics.com/
Good luck,
Josh
JK:
I have photos of 26 of the 38 90 Si Panteras sold, and all of them have the wing. Even #9624, the crash test car, had the wing. Therefore, I would guess they were standard equipment.
That said, the cars were built to custom order and DeTomaso was known for doing whatever the customer was willing to pay for. Therefore, it's possible, if very unlikely, that someone special ordered a car without the wing. Perhaps Franz Krump or Kjell Jansson, both of whom track the 90 Si Panteras very carefully, can give us a definitive answer to this question.
- Peter
I have photos of 26 of the 38 90 Si Panteras sold, and all of them have the wing. Even #9624, the crash test car, had the wing. Therefore, I would guess they were standard equipment.
That said, the cars were built to custom order and DeTomaso was known for doing whatever the customer was willing to pay for. Therefore, it's possible, if very unlikely, that someone special ordered a car without the wing. Perhaps Franz Krump or Kjell Jansson, both of whom track the 90 Si Panteras very carefully, can give us a definitive answer to this question.
- Peter
quote:Originally posted by Peter H:
Maximus:
If you are undecided, run for a while with the wing and then for a while without. I installed rubber grommets covered in felt on my wing struts so they don't gouge my deck lid paint, and so I can remove the wing when I feel like it. I plug the bolt holes with cheap plastic plugs I buy at NAPA for a few cents, and it looks great.
I have to say Peter those pictures of your car without the wing looked great. I have been tempted many times to remove mine. Maybe this summer I will play around with/without it just to see how I like it.
Blaine