I am actively looking for a solid Mangusta to purchase either restored or for restoration. I am not interested in highly customized examples. Originality is a plus.
David Castelhano
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
David just recently there was one in UK listed on ebay USA , it did not reach reserve but bidding ended at 125K
I believe that was a 1970 car in pieces?
Yes I have been to inspect this car. We feel the car is over priced at this time. Thank you though
deniscCaretaker of 8MA1244 '70 Euro Mangusta DRIVE THEM, THEY WERE MEANT TO BE DRIVEN, IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT ONE, BUY A POSTER!
Asking price is just that Asking. Looking at pics car seem rather strait, low miles, well documented. yes needs some work (seat) missing air cleaner and a few tools in the roll, maybe jack. Certainly not 100K restoration.
So what leads you to believe the car is overpriced.
So what leads you to believe the car is overpriced.
deniscCaretaker of 8MA1244 '70 Euro Mangusta DRIVE THEM, THEY WERE MEANT TO BE DRIVEN, IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT ONE, BUY A POSTER!
Again at 125K car needs a fair amount of work. It did not meet reserve at 125K. There are many deals done after auction others use eBay as a cheap advertising. This is a reality check for the owner. The challenge in this case: the car is in the UK. Quite unusual because they have a better value there then here in America.
Although a not for the faint of heart project one should simply see some of Bobileff's Miura restorations even 10 years ago
http://www.lambomiura.com/rest01.htm
Although a not for the faint of heart project one should simply see some of Bobileff's Miura restorations even 10 years ago
http://www.lambomiura.com/rest01.htm
I agree, we were told that there are two partners in the car. I am sure each is looking to cash in.
I think it's a $300K car
I think it's a $300K car
deniscCaretaker of 8MA1244 '70 Euro Mangusta DRIVE THEM, THEY WERE MEANT TO BE DRIVEN, IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT ONE, BUY A POSTER!
I think if you are a serious buyer send the guy a certified cheque and a written offer. If you can be there personally (or have an agent) to examine the negotiations can be be more realistic. As I said asking is just a starting number.
Many times if have been offered crazy 5 digit offers by people I know are just fishing hoping I bite. Serious offers need to be done in a serious way.
Many times if have been offered crazy 5 digit offers by people I know are just fishing hoping I bite. Serious offers need to be done in a serious way.
I agree however our last standing offer was over $300K and it was shunned. The market has softened since and we believe this is due to the uncertainty of the upcoming elections.
They have the original intake and carb available for the car. My paint meter showed there is plenty of body filler in several spots and as someone pointed out the seats are shot. All in all very complete.
They have the original intake and carb available for the car. My paint meter showed there is plenty of body filler in several spots and as someone pointed out the seats are shot. All in all very complete.
There are more cars (of all makes) on the market remaining unsold for longer than ever. From what I've seen, an offer over $300K is a very fair offer and the seller may later have some regrets at shunning it. Time is on your side I think. Good luck.
Mark
Mark
@ Bertocci
Just for reference, this car:
http://www.thiesen-automobile....icht29696.html?f=new
Just sold for about $315,000 us last week. It looks to have some type of rear suspension Mod that I hope someone could comment on. Also, non-original valve covers, What looks to be a non-veglia clock??
The thing on the Streetside Classics Car- I talked to the owner of the car. He didn't indicate that he had a partner. I am pretty sure you would be able to pick that car up for what you are looking to pay. I have some other info on this car that might be helpful to you if you are serious about it. If you want to PM me.
Just for reference, this car:
http://www.thiesen-automobile....icht29696.html?f=new
Just sold for about $315,000 us last week. It looks to have some type of rear suspension Mod that I hope someone could comment on. Also, non-original valve covers, What looks to be a non-veglia clock??
The thing on the Streetside Classics Car- I talked to the owner of the car. He didn't indicate that he had a partner. I am pretty sure you would be able to pick that car up for what you are looking to pay. I have some other info on this car that might be helpful to you if you are serious about it. If you want to PM me.
Considering the news from Germany the gold car has depreciated significantly and our offer has been withdrawn. The market has softened and may be in decline.
quote:Originally posted by Denis C:
Asking price is just that Asking. Looking at pics car seem rather strait, low miles, well documented. yes needs some work (seat) missing air cleaner and a few tools in the roll, maybe jack. Certainly not 100K restoration.
So what leads you to believe the car is overpriced.
Seems like this car would be a fairly easy refurbishment. Paint looks really good, lots of originality, paperwork looks pretty interesting. Fair amount of incorrect stuff in the engine bay and interior a little ratty.
Low 300s seems like a good price
Just for reference, this car:
http://www.thiesen-automobile....icht29696.html?f=new>>>>>
I noticed the odd clock too and what's up with the lights or reflectors or whatever they are next to the tail lights?
Just sold for about $315,000 us last week. It looks to have some type of rear suspension Mod that I hope someone could comment on. Also, non-original valve covers, What looks to be a non-veglia clock??
http://www.thiesen-automobile....icht29696.html?f=new>>>>>
I noticed the odd clock too and what's up with the lights or reflectors or whatever they are next to the tail lights?
Just sold for about $315,000 us last week. It looks to have some type of rear suspension Mod that I hope someone could comment on. Also, non-original valve covers, What looks to be a non-veglia clock??
Looks like backup lights next to the tail lights. I don't see a jack shaft for the alternator/compressor.
deniscCaretaker of 8MA1244 '70 Euro Mangusta DRIVE THEM, THEY WERE MEANT TO BE DRIVEN, IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT ONE, BUY A POSTER!
This 8MA1200, it was formerly Clyde Kwok (Aerodynamics engineer)out of Montreal. It was a ground-up restored in early 2000's. This was the 1st Mangusta to command $100K. The jackshaft effectively removed and a small alternator installed. A/C is removed. Mr Kwok's son (Hugh)was a racer so he may have tried to rework the rear frame to add rigidity (google: triposto)
As to the clock, older pics show the correct one, but they are getting expensive and hard to find so I guess someone just put another similar (incorrect) working Veglia piece in the hole.
Rear light behind grill were added first as rear fog lamps then converted to back-up lamps for Euro MOT.
PS: someone decided to add info to the normally blank VIN plate and in their great wisdom added the short VIN off the donor motor (8C833238)= 1968 289. So we know this car does not have it's original block.
As to the clock, older pics show the correct one, but they are getting expensive and hard to find so I guess someone just put another similar (incorrect) working Veglia piece in the hole.
Rear light behind grill were added first as rear fog lamps then converted to back-up lamps for Euro MOT.
PS: someone decided to add info to the normally blank VIN plate and in their great wisdom added the short VIN off the donor motor (8C833238)= 1968 289. So we know this car does not have it's original block.
Thanks for the info Dennis.
In view of this, what is your opinion on the golden one? Seems like 300-310 might be in the ballpark?
In view of this, what is your opinion on the golden one? Seems like 300-310 might be in the ballpark?
quote:Originally posted by MattP:
In view of this, what is your opinion on the golden one? Seems like 300-310 might be in the ballpark?
Matt, you seem to have some inside knowledge on the gold car. What is YOUR opinion of its value? The Thiesen car, mods to the engine area aside, looks to be an extremely nice restoration. On that basis I would think there should be a price difference. I'd love to see these become $1 million cars so when I am ready to sell mine I can cash in big.
I went and inspected the car. We were told the car had original paint and in my opinion it did not. My paint meter found the paint was very thick in places.
Headers and exhaust were after market. The intake and carburetor have been replaced. Only recently they became available with the car.
I was told that there was considerable time and money spent getting the car ready for sale hence the high price. I like the car and still think it's a great foundation for a concourse restoration. My business partner is not comfortable with the numbers or it would be in our shop.
Finding completely original Mangustas has been challenging
Headers and exhaust were after market. The intake and carburetor have been replaced. Only recently they became available with the car.
I was told that there was considerable time and money spent getting the car ready for sale hence the high price. I like the car and still think it's a great foundation for a concourse restoration. My business partner is not comfortable with the numbers or it would be in our shop.
Finding completely original Mangustas has been challenging
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I guess I am trying to figure out what is worth more on these cars, low mileage and more original (gold) or higher mileage, incorrect engine, but a very nice restoration (Black).
As I look at the gold car, it seems like it is in pretty original condition (except that it is missing the original intake manifold, Mirrors are a little funky, odd antenna, chrome on the zf carrier, incorrect valve covers, and of course the drivers seat.) But the Mileage is low, and I think if the intake could be acquired, this car should be worth more than a restored car that doesn't have the original engine in it. (after attending to a few of the other items mentioned.) It seems to me that with the intake, the car should be worth USD $310-330. But the car has bee sitting for a while so....
I know from talking to the owner, the gold car was under contract but failed the PPE over the intake manifold. That is why I think the 300k offer seems close.
However, I'm not an expert, I am still learning a ton about the car from this site and from many of you. My car has the original engine, an 8 out of 10 paint job, the interior needs redone, I need to find an emergency brake lever, and the car has a fuel injection system and the original fans are in a plastic tote with the original alternator, carb, etc.. So part of my reason for asking is that I have been wondering, when I get the details worked out, will mine be a $300 k car by summer?
I am not able to pull the trigger on another goose right now. But I am thinking I'm not sure I/we/you should be worrying about paying 10K too much on one of these. (What do you guys think??) I think these are underappreciated (full disclosure, I think everything I own is underappreciated.
) But all kidding aside, with probably only 380 of these things around, I wonder if these two cars could be $450-$500K cars in 3 or 4 years.
It seems like these don't creep up in value. It seems like they stay steady and then all of a sudden they jump. As opposed to say the Porsche 930's which see to just keep marching up in value. So Either you have one and love it and then some day you wake up and it has increased by 100k or you are wishing you bought it.
So back to my original post.... In my opinion, if you could get the correct intake manifold on the gold one and pay 310-320, I think you will be happy in 5 years...
But I would definitely like to hear from some of you who have way more experience than me in this field. This is what I love about this site.
Oh just to mix it up a little... what do you guys think the value of the BossGustaGT40 should be????
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-D...ZV&item=222303358495
Thanks
Matt
As I look at the gold car, it seems like it is in pretty original condition (except that it is missing the original intake manifold, Mirrors are a little funky, odd antenna, chrome on the zf carrier, incorrect valve covers, and of course the drivers seat.) But the Mileage is low, and I think if the intake could be acquired, this car should be worth more than a restored car that doesn't have the original engine in it. (after attending to a few of the other items mentioned.) It seems to me that with the intake, the car should be worth USD $310-330. But the car has bee sitting for a while so....
I know from talking to the owner, the gold car was under contract but failed the PPE over the intake manifold. That is why I think the 300k offer seems close.
However, I'm not an expert, I am still learning a ton about the car from this site and from many of you. My car has the original engine, an 8 out of 10 paint job, the interior needs redone, I need to find an emergency brake lever, and the car has a fuel injection system and the original fans are in a plastic tote with the original alternator, carb, etc.. So part of my reason for asking is that I have been wondering, when I get the details worked out, will mine be a $300 k car by summer?
I am not able to pull the trigger on another goose right now. But I am thinking I'm not sure I/we/you should be worrying about paying 10K too much on one of these. (What do you guys think??) I think these are underappreciated (full disclosure, I think everything I own is underappreciated.
) But all kidding aside, with probably only 380 of these things around, I wonder if these two cars could be $450-$500K cars in 3 or 4 years.It seems like these don't creep up in value. It seems like they stay steady and then all of a sudden they jump. As opposed to say the Porsche 930's which see to just keep marching up in value. So Either you have one and love it and then some day you wake up and it has increased by 100k or you are wishing you bought it.
So back to my original post.... In my opinion, if you could get the correct intake manifold on the gold one and pay 310-320, I think you will be happy in 5 years...
But I would definitely like to hear from some of you who have way more experience than me in this field. This is what I love about this site.
Oh just to mix it up a little... what do you guys think the value of the BossGustaGT40 should be????
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-D...ZV&item=222303358495
Thanks
Matt
quote:Originally posted by MattP:
Oh just to mix it up a little... what do you guys think the value of the BossGustaGT40 should be????
$225K
I'm basing that on a very clean 4-lamp car being "worth" $300 to $325K and nice "driver" being $275 to $300K which, based on some recent sales I am aware of is reasonably accurate.
Why so low for this car?
Non-original or incorrect: dash top covering (should be mouse hair), seats (totally wrong), gauge rings, steering wheel, silly side scoops, rear wing, opened gull-wing gills, A/C parts, front grille, missing engine covers, coolant tanks, valve covers, air cleaner missing, wrong engine (if it IS a BOSS), wrong exhaust. And that's just what is obvious from the eBay photos. I'm sure there is more but there are no under-body or wheels-off photos.
I await the inevitable flaming.
I think Mark is way off. After all he spent $15-20,000 to find just the right seats after all. 
Actually I think Mark is a bit high. I like the way the car looks but all the mods significantly decrease the value. And some of these mods will be costly to correct. No different than taking any other low production number collector car and altering it from stock.
Actually I think Mark is a bit high. I like the way the car looks but all the mods significantly decrease the value. And some of these mods will be costly to correct. No different than taking any other low production number collector car and altering it from stock.
quote:Originally posted by Husker:
Actually I think Mark is a bit high.
Ha Ha. I haven’t been accused of THAT in a while. Usually people get all upset and suggest that I am demeaning the brand if I don't think our cars are worth 2 or 3X what the rest of the market thinks they are. I deliberately went high on my numbers to avoid that and so I agree completely with you that I am "high" — although I'm not sure if maybe you were just suggesting that I was smoking something...
The seats, steering wheel, engine covers, air cleaner and other missing parts are "unobtanium". Making copies can and has been done, but not cheaply, and they will always be a reproduction.
Thanks for the insight Mark. I tend to agree with your assessment. I just wondered if it indeed has a real BOSS engine, and it were in real nice shape, without all the strange extra parts and more correct would this bring 400 plus? I just didn't know if there is any recent sales data on a real BOSS engine car. (How many were made with the BOSS engine?)
Here is another car I found. A 2 light. for USD $370
https://www.hemmings.com/class...angusta/1866818.html
Personally, I like the 4-light cars better. In a head-to-head value match up of equally complete and correct cars, will the 2- light usually be worth more?
https://www.hemmings.com/class...angusta/1866818.html
Personally, I like the 4-light cars better. In a head-to-head value match up of equally complete and correct cars, will the 2- light usually be worth more?
Matt,
There is no such thing as a "BOSS" Mangusta. The car either does not have the original engine, or the seller is "enhancing" his description of his standard 302 by stating it is a BOSS motor (would not surprise me). Mangustas usually came fitted with a 302 but some early and Euro cars had a 289 (although probably way fewer than claim to have a 289). I find it amusing and sad that a seller can think there are people out there who are not smart enough to see through a gross misrepresentation of a car, but that who smart enough to have made $400K to buy one.
The 4-lamp cars are definitely more valuable, despite the fact that the 2-lamp cars are actually more rare volume-wise. The reason (IMHO) that the 2-lamp cars are worth 10 to 15% less is that they were a compromise design to meet US headlight regulations of the (I think) 1970 model year. They look less refined and do not follow the original design intent of the car.
As for the German car, it is a very nice and quite original and largely unrestored example — reportedly with under 7000 miles, although my notes indicate it was originally beige. The car has been sold many times over the last six years. It sold in 2010 for around $100K and again at the Coys UK auction in 2014 for $175 US. It has certainly been making a good profit for sellers along the way, but I'm not sure that can continue forever.
There is no such thing as a "BOSS" Mangusta. The car either does not have the original engine, or the seller is "enhancing" his description of his standard 302 by stating it is a BOSS motor (would not surprise me). Mangustas usually came fitted with a 302 but some early and Euro cars had a 289 (although probably way fewer than claim to have a 289). I find it amusing and sad that a seller can think there are people out there who are not smart enough to see through a gross misrepresentation of a car, but that who smart enough to have made $400K to buy one.
The 4-lamp cars are definitely more valuable, despite the fact that the 2-lamp cars are actually more rare volume-wise. The reason (IMHO) that the 2-lamp cars are worth 10 to 15% less is that they were a compromise design to meet US headlight regulations of the (I think) 1970 model year. They look less refined and do not follow the original design intent of the car.
As for the German car, it is a very nice and quite original and largely unrestored example — reportedly with under 7000 miles, although my notes indicate it was originally beige. The car has been sold many times over the last six years. It sold in 2010 for around $100K and again at the Coys UK auction in 2014 for $175 US. It has certainly been making a good profit for sellers along the way, but I'm not sure that can continue forever.
Mark,
Thanks again for shedding some light on this issue. I love how on this forum I can ask "noob" questions and get respectful, insightful answers from people who want to help.
It seems like the Mangusta registry was hacked or something. Is there another resource for tracking these cars that has cataloged what is going on with them? Or is that something that needs to be re-created?
Thanks again for shedding some light on this issue. I love how on this forum I can ask "noob" questions and get respectful, insightful answers from people who want to help.
It seems like the Mangusta registry was hacked or something. Is there another resource for tracking these cars that has cataloged what is going on with them? Or is that something that needs to be re-created?
deniscCaretaker of 8MA1244 '70 Euro Mangusta DRIVE THEM, THEY WERE MEANT TO BE DRIVEN, IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT ONE, BUY A POSTER!
The Mangusta Registry was not hacked. Dana has been busy with his career and has put the site on hold for now. Hopefully the info is not lost. QV500 had a DeTomaso section but that was shut down following an issue with an owner. All that remains now is Provamo.com.
OK, I missed much of this conversation!
Theisen car: what is the SN of this one? The verbiage on the website was BS. I'll call it! Never have heard of a -1 Goose......and they weren't designed for Shelby..... While Alejandro may have talked to Shelby, Carrol was LONG gone and working on Mustangs and GT40's by the time DeT was producing any cars........ Ford waived money...DeT...smoke.
The clock: Looks like a Veglia...but cannot tell 100% if the tint on the letters etc is green. Most all other Veglia clocks are white lettered....excepting Ferraris which used the same clocks as the Goose. I don't recall ever seeing one with a red dot in the middle, may just be picture..... Goose adjusting knob was large chrome..... most all other later versions have smaller plastic chrome knob. You can get "Electronico" and "Quarzo" versions which work great, but letter tint is wrong and knob is wrong.....that's why my original is put away safely....also position of knob changes from top to bottom or vice-versa! I put an NOS Quarzo in my car....and the hour hand promptly came loose now it's always "some minutes" after or before 6!!!
Nice car but as stated there are some small things to sort out. I was really surprised to see funky air tube material....for a car restored in Europe....it should have proper paper tubes and hangers!
Gold car-4 headlamp car: already hashed pretty good. Solid looking car but seat doesn't support low mileage claim IMHO. Too many things not quite finished......don't they look on the internet?????
Red German car: very nice car IMHO. Use of black tie wraps is a nit..... should have proper retainers for air tubes.....
It DOES have the same Dodge side markers as my car! Which brings up some other stuff.....
Dodge marker lights: This may have been a "mod" that someone started back in the 70's...to get rid of the bug eyed Fiat lamps. Much cleaner and in tune with sleekness of car! (I've looked for old articles on such....haven't had any luck finding anything.)
This is the 3rd or 4th car I have seen pictures of, or owned....that have these Pentastar tagged lamps! It was an easy swap...only had to cut/splice the wire to install, no body mods needed AFAIK! Stock Fiat lamps should go back on easily.
Chrome on spare holder etc: This may have come about the same time as the Dodge lamps. One of these cars mentioned has all the same "easily removable" parts chromed as my car. Spare tire tie down bar, ladder bar, hatch support rods, hood support rod, body to top of wheelwell bars.....basically anything that could be unbolted and sent out to a chrome shop without really taking anything apart!
Bondo/thick paint: These were hand hammered bodies....and apparently the Italians were not above using bondo..... Tales I have heard were something to the effect that many times a skin coat was applied......finished....and painted.
I can't imagine too many cars with original paint......but they are probably out there, in a climate controlled garage bigger than my house!
If you suspect really thick filler/paint....get your hands and face up in the fender wells etc and look for other damage, perhaps covered up with carpet......if the undercoating isn't too thick, you may be able to see evidence of damage repair.....
The red Shelby car: While it is interesting...paperwork, paperwork, paperwork...is the only thing that will bring the value of this car to the absolute top of the market...where they are reaching for. My concern, being one of the known "Boss 302 conversion by owner cars"....(I did not say factory.....!) is that depending on how modes were done, will determine how much damage was done to the integrity of the car chassis, or other parts......cuz you can mess up a lot of stuff.
I suspect that the subframe ladder work was altered on this car. Note that there are NO pictures of the modifications ever presented. My car had the Boss installed by raising the motor mounts and modifying anything else that didn't fit right after that......ugh! But, the good news is that all of that work was able to be put back to stock without too much work...
With the performance level of the stock 302-4V engine being so close to that of the Boss 302, there really is no reason to ever want to do the conversion. The heads just do not fit well in the chassis, and they don't breath well at normal operating rev's of the typical Goose driver to justify the mess.
A change to a better camshaft is all that the stock 302's need to perk them up!!!! (I'll also throw in simple porting of the exhaust ports on the heads...) The heads used on the Goose were the best Ford heads ever used on a regular production 302. It just took about 20 years for Ford to figure out that they needed to be where they were in 68..... (Go look at a set of late model "GT40" Mustang head combustion chambers and you will see what I mean!!)
STOCK INTAKES AND CARBS: C8ZE (casting marks or stamped) Intakes and carbs don't grow on trees! These were only used one year in production so you are competing with the pony car crowd and the Shelby enthusiasts for these parts. BUT, they are still around and they are STILL excellent stock performing parts! The ONLY thing as a negative about the pair, is the weight of the intake. Cast iron vs aluminum...... The delta in performance would likely need a chassis dyno to tell the difference as your "ass dyno" unless very well calibrated, would probably not be able to tell the difference.
I would rather have stock valve covers (with emblems!) and exhaust shields and an aluminum intake than a stock manifold and aftermarket valve covers!
Distributor....let's throw that into the same mix as the carb/intake thing. Marked only for the 4V 302's, they are a collector item! I prefer to shelve them and install a DuraSpark II unit to gain more spark and better performance under "zero maintenance" conditions......!!!! The Mallory and MSD systems may have their place, but not in these cars IMHO. I haven't seen Ford parts fail (other than roll pins....) but I have seen aftermarket systems fail in multiples.... money not well spent, again IMHO. No value to putting one on your car to sell it! If I see one on a car, I know that they have discarded expensive parts....mark that down in the discount price column also!
Someone mentioned 380 of these cars left....I think that is a gross exaggeration. I think between Dana, Denis, Mark, and myself, we accounted for some 275 cars (past & present, trash and treasure!), with the high prices now pulling more out of the weeds like most of these cars being discussed???! We lost quite a few to rust and kit cars....a few to fires....and a pile to bad drivers and neglectful owners!
Because of the recent boost of cars becoming known out of European and some collections in the US, I'd venture a number more like 300-320 being around in some manner. (Drivers? maybe 250....) They were beautiful cars back when they were new and slightly used....so owners that shelled out $10-11K probably took better care of them...or at least stored them away vs just tossing them like any other Chevy, Buick, or Galaxie Custom.
And that is my humble opinion!
Holiday Cheers to all!
Steve
Theisen car: what is the SN of this one? The verbiage on the website was BS. I'll call it! Never have heard of a -1 Goose......and they weren't designed for Shelby..... While Alejandro may have talked to Shelby, Carrol was LONG gone and working on Mustangs and GT40's by the time DeT was producing any cars........ Ford waived money...DeT...smoke.
The clock: Looks like a Veglia...but cannot tell 100% if the tint on the letters etc is green. Most all other Veglia clocks are white lettered....excepting Ferraris which used the same clocks as the Goose. I don't recall ever seeing one with a red dot in the middle, may just be picture..... Goose adjusting knob was large chrome..... most all other later versions have smaller plastic chrome knob. You can get "Electronico" and "Quarzo" versions which work great, but letter tint is wrong and knob is wrong.....that's why my original is put away safely....also position of knob changes from top to bottom or vice-versa! I put an NOS Quarzo in my car....and the hour hand promptly came loose now it's always "some minutes" after or before 6!!!
Nice car but as stated there are some small things to sort out. I was really surprised to see funky air tube material....for a car restored in Europe....it should have proper paper tubes and hangers!
Gold car-4 headlamp car: already hashed pretty good. Solid looking car but seat doesn't support low mileage claim IMHO. Too many things not quite finished......don't they look on the internet?????
Red German car: very nice car IMHO. Use of black tie wraps is a nit..... should have proper retainers for air tubes.....
It DOES have the same Dodge side markers as my car! Which brings up some other stuff.....
Dodge marker lights: This may have been a "mod" that someone started back in the 70's...to get rid of the bug eyed Fiat lamps. Much cleaner and in tune with sleekness of car! (I've looked for old articles on such....haven't had any luck finding anything.)
This is the 3rd or 4th car I have seen pictures of, or owned....that have these Pentastar tagged lamps! It was an easy swap...only had to cut/splice the wire to install, no body mods needed AFAIK! Stock Fiat lamps should go back on easily.
Chrome on spare holder etc: This may have come about the same time as the Dodge lamps. One of these cars mentioned has all the same "easily removable" parts chromed as my car. Spare tire tie down bar, ladder bar, hatch support rods, hood support rod, body to top of wheelwell bars.....basically anything that could be unbolted and sent out to a chrome shop without really taking anything apart!
Bondo/thick paint: These were hand hammered bodies....and apparently the Italians were not above using bondo..... Tales I have heard were something to the effect that many times a skin coat was applied......finished....and painted.
I can't imagine too many cars with original paint......but they are probably out there, in a climate controlled garage bigger than my house!
If you suspect really thick filler/paint....get your hands and face up in the fender wells etc and look for other damage, perhaps covered up with carpet......if the undercoating isn't too thick, you may be able to see evidence of damage repair.....
The red Shelby car: While it is interesting...paperwork, paperwork, paperwork...is the only thing that will bring the value of this car to the absolute top of the market...where they are reaching for. My concern, being one of the known "Boss 302 conversion by owner cars"....(I did not say factory.....!) is that depending on how modes were done, will determine how much damage was done to the integrity of the car chassis, or other parts......cuz you can mess up a lot of stuff.
I suspect that the subframe ladder work was altered on this car. Note that there are NO pictures of the modifications ever presented. My car had the Boss installed by raising the motor mounts and modifying anything else that didn't fit right after that......ugh! But, the good news is that all of that work was able to be put back to stock without too much work...
With the performance level of the stock 302-4V engine being so close to that of the Boss 302, there really is no reason to ever want to do the conversion. The heads just do not fit well in the chassis, and they don't breath well at normal operating rev's of the typical Goose driver to justify the mess.
A change to a better camshaft is all that the stock 302's need to perk them up!!!! (I'll also throw in simple porting of the exhaust ports on the heads...) The heads used on the Goose were the best Ford heads ever used on a regular production 302. It just took about 20 years for Ford to figure out that they needed to be where they were in 68..... (Go look at a set of late model "GT40" Mustang head combustion chambers and you will see what I mean!!)
STOCK INTAKES AND CARBS: C8ZE (casting marks or stamped) Intakes and carbs don't grow on trees! These were only used one year in production so you are competing with the pony car crowd and the Shelby enthusiasts for these parts. BUT, they are still around and they are STILL excellent stock performing parts! The ONLY thing as a negative about the pair, is the weight of the intake. Cast iron vs aluminum...... The delta in performance would likely need a chassis dyno to tell the difference as your "ass dyno" unless very well calibrated, would probably not be able to tell the difference.
I would rather have stock valve covers (with emblems!) and exhaust shields and an aluminum intake than a stock manifold and aftermarket valve covers!
Distributor....let's throw that into the same mix as the carb/intake thing. Marked only for the 4V 302's, they are a collector item! I prefer to shelve them and install a DuraSpark II unit to gain more spark and better performance under "zero maintenance" conditions......!!!! The Mallory and MSD systems may have their place, but not in these cars IMHO. I haven't seen Ford parts fail (other than roll pins....) but I have seen aftermarket systems fail in multiples.... money not well spent, again IMHO. No value to putting one on your car to sell it! If I see one on a car, I know that they have discarded expensive parts....mark that down in the discount price column also!
Someone mentioned 380 of these cars left....I think that is a gross exaggeration. I think between Dana, Denis, Mark, and myself, we accounted for some 275 cars (past & present, trash and treasure!), with the high prices now pulling more out of the weeds like most of these cars being discussed???! We lost quite a few to rust and kit cars....a few to fires....and a pile to bad drivers and neglectful owners!
Because of the recent boost of cars becoming known out of European and some collections in the US, I'd venture a number more like 300-320 being around in some manner. (Drivers? maybe 250....) They were beautiful cars back when they were new and slightly used....so owners that shelled out $10-11K probably took better care of them...or at least stored them away vs just tossing them like any other Chevy, Buick, or Galaxie Custom.
And that is my humble opinion!
Holiday Cheers to all!
Steve