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your advices (finally) - 351C engine

panterachrispanterachrisMember
I like Doug's cam suggestion, the problem with getting to your horse power goals is your heads, the original 4V heads were designed for foot to the floor NASCAR applications,Ford offered in limited numbers the C-302 A and B heads for racers, they required a complete custom machine overhaul but could be refined by the racer for their application,, but , after their "ban by NASCAR" the engine was abandoned by Ford and for years ignored by the aftermarket, this is why the massaging of the stock heads was the only way to go. The good news is you can reach the 500+ numbers but you will have to acquire great heads, contact Mike Drew he may be able to help on importing the parts you need.If you want to go fast = money.Below is a top secret C302-B head worked up for 600+ horse power..
quote:
Originally posted by "72 GTS:
Hello
I've been surfing this forum many times and got very usefull informations … but it's time to make a decision.

I'd like to build a reliable race engine (I mean that I don't want to put the hands inside every week)

I have :
-351C engine with 4V quench heads
-Holley Dominator intake
-MSD ignition dizzy (pointless)(recurved by Brent Lykins
-Aviaid race oil tank

I'm ready to buy
-180° headers
-Quickfuel mechanical carb (cfm ?)
-camshaft

let's say 400 HP + (?)

what about pushrods, lifters, water pump.

Thanks to all
kind regards
Philippe

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panteradougpanteradougMember
quote:
Originally posted by pantera chris:
That's what I meant to say but my shrinking bank account boggled my mind.
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by pantera chris:
If you want to go fast = money.[QUOTE]

The remark generally spoken here is "how fast you can go is determined by how much money you have to spend". Frowner


I know. It's depressing. Everyone is charging more and I am making less. What's wrong with that equation?
panteradougpanteradougMember
quote:
Originally posted by "72 GTS:
Thanks to all
But i have to run stocks heads to be FIA legal,
Even if some guys run 7Liters engines and claim to be within the rules Wink


The engines here can be tested for cylinder volume with a gauge that gets installed to the spark plug hole in the head.

7 litres in that engine is going to have issues with high speed (rpm) durability. Your 5.7, to a much lesser degree, if at all.

You don't even need a steel crankshaft. The steel is used more in a race engine to reduce the amount of bearing embedment into the crank journals. It is harder and will take less rebuilds than the iron crank will because of that, but the iron dampens vibration in the engine better.

A steel crank in a Cleveland will crack the block eventually through the main webs. Usually on the thrust bearing bulkhead.

The best way to build a Cleveland is to use the iron crank and have it Tuftrided. The process hardends the bearing surfaces but the crank retains it's flexibility.

The only issue with it that I am aware of is that you need a crank press to straighten the crank after it gets done. That machine is in short supply. Usually has to get sent out to have that done to one of the few shops that has the press.
George PGeorge PAdmin.
quote:

Originally posted by "72 GTS:

... I already have one Holley Strip Dominator intake (high single plane) ... I guess that the port reduction is a professionnal job, I won't be able to do that ...



Philippe,

Do not stuff the intake ports (port reduction) of the iron 4V heads in conjunction with the Holley Strip Dominator intake manifold, that manifold is designed for a full size port.

The port works good as is, and the best names in Motorsports had a hard time figuring out how to make it better. The guys who filled the port back in the heyday of iron head 4V pro-racing were doing so not to increase velocity, but to eliminate the irregular shape of the port, because at the engine speeds they were racing at (above 8000 rpm) the irregular shape caused the fuel to fall out of suspension, it was wetting out on the walls of the port.

Stuffing the intake port will decrease air flow by at least 15 cfm at 0.600" valve lift, and by at least 25 cfm at 0.700" valve lift. So if you stuff the port, the port needs to be reworked to regain the air flow. The velocity increase attained by stuffing the port inlet is minimal, port volume is only decreased by about 15cc ... and even less once the port is reworked. My advice is to get to know the port, understand how it works and do the math to know the various operating parameters (average velocity, peak velocity), before making a decision to modify it. The more you know about the port, the better you'll understand how well it was designed to begin with, that I guarantee.

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

... I have no experience with that recommended carburetor ...



Doug the Quick Fuel carbs (aka QFT) are Holley clones, with features like fuel bowl windows, replaceable air bleeds, etc, that Holley owners can only wish they had ... or that they pay a bunch of money to have installed. The double pumper versions are available with annular booster venturis. They are generally considered to be a better out-of-the-box carburetor than those manufactured by Holley.
panterachrispanterachrisMember
posted December 01, 2014 05:11 PM Hide Post

quote:

.


Philippe,
The best advise is learn from the best, George is to modest so let me say, the best book on modifying your engine is " FORD 351 Cleveland Engines" This book will help you to pick the right components and in the short run save you $$$, knowledge is power!
quote:
Originally posted by George P:
quote:

Originally posted by "72 GTS:

... I already have one Holley Strip Dominator intake (high single plane) ... I guess that the port reduction is a professionnal job, I won't be able to do that ...



Philippe,

Do not stuff the intake ports (port reduction) of the iron 4V heads in conjunction with the Holley Strip Dominator intake manifold, that manifold is designed for a full size port.

The port works good as is, and the best names in Motorsports had a hard time figuring out how to make it better. The guys who filled the port back in the heyday of iron head 4V pro-racing were doing so not to increase velocity, but to eliminate the irregular shape of the port, because at the engine speeds they were racing at (above 8000 rpm) the irregular shape caused the fuel to fall out of suspension, it was wetting out on the walls of the port.

Stuffing the intake port will decrease air flow by at least 15 cfm at 0.600" valve lift, and by at least 25 cfm at 0.700" valve lift. So if you stuff the port, the port needs to be reworked to regain the air flow. The velocity increase attained by stuffing the port inlet is minimal, port volume is only decreased by about 15cc ... and even less once the port is reworked. My advice is to get to know the port, understand how it works and do the math to know the various operating parameters (average velocity, peak velocity), before making a decision to modify it. The more you know about the port, the better you'll understand how well it was designed to begin with, that I guarantee.

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

... I have no experience with that recommended carburetor ...



Doug the Quick Fuel carbs (aka QFT) are Holley clones, with features like fuel bowl windows, replaceable air bleeds, etc, that Holley owners can only wish they had ... or that they pay a bunch of money to have installed. The double pumper versions are available with annular booster venturis. They are generally considered to be a better out-of-the-box carburetor than those manufactured by Holley.
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