See how long your ZF lasts behind one of these
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My buddy's stroked out Windsor, 690 HP, this thing had me thinkin' windsor for a while.... It's a real animal!... Crank your speakers...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQo7BqOahms
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQo7BqOahms
Very nice 
Here are some more, a few yates headed.
Here are some more, a few yates headed.
Very cool.
Nice post Hustler! But if these are for street Panteras, chances are pretty slim you'll ever find wheel / tire combos that fit and that will stick. So your ZF should be just fine. 
Think you are right David, better be ready for the smoke show
Chris
Chris
That all aluminum Speedomotive motor sounded really SMOOTH!
It isn't so much the HP but the torque that will do in the ZF.
As per a previous discussion, Butfoy only guarantys his ZF's for a maximum of 550 ft-lbs.
That pretty much eliminates strokers as I understand it?
As per a previous discussion, Butfoy only guarantys his ZF's for a maximum of 550 ft-lbs.
That pretty much eliminates strokers as I understand it?
Lloyd told me that driving style has a lot to do with when the ZF gives up.
Smokey burnouts are a no-no.
(note to self: drive like a responsible adult)
Smokey burnouts are a no-no.
(note to self: drive like a responsible adult)
quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
It isn't so much the HP but the torque that will do in the ZF.
As per a previous discussion, Butfoy only guarantys his ZF's for a maximum of 550 ft-lbs.
That pretty much eliminates strokers as I understand it?
I would think the shock from the tires chattering on a launch with instant clutch engagement and the load on the gears when that much torque is being applied to the drivetrain is what causes the stress on the transmission pieces. Whereas an automatic transmission has a smoother transmission of shock with the torque converter. Its difficult to build a manual transmission to withstand the rigors of drag racing, and guessing its why not many drag race their panteras given the expense of replacing parts. HP after all is just a derivative of torque. Hence why most transmissions are rated with torque values. Maybe starting a burnout where you are trying to break the tires loose to do a burnout you would have abnormal stress, but after the wheels are spinning and there is no traction, there is a slight but constant load on the transaxle, probably less than a load placed at cruising speed on the highway. The difference is less air is flowing past the casing than if you were at speed and moving faster, so less ambient cooling and because the gears are spinning faster and creating heat that can be detrimental. That is how I perceive it but would be interested to hear discussion.
quote:Originally posted by Hustler:
HP after all is just a derivative of torque. Hence why most transmissions are rated with torque values.
That is what the equation says but if you will notice there are quite a few 357's running with 650 to 750 hp and just about 500 ft-lbs.
Butfoy rates in torque.
If I understand the equation correctly, and that depends on how much Bud Light I have consumed, if the hp is up but the torque is remaining constant then it must be the T, or the time in which the torque is being delivered is shorter?
Still that puts the ZF in a safer mode.
If someone insists on running the equivelent of a 427 with 500 ft pound right off of idel and toping out in the 650 to 700 range I would bet you a nickel that the ZF doesn't have an icebergs chance in Hell?
I've already had two BL's so I have to refrain from mentioning a dollar amount now?
I wouldn't worry too much about twisting up the drive train with 500hp in this chassis anyway.
By the time the tires top spinning you will be shifting into third gear and the finish line will be in sight...or what ever those flashing lights are up ahead?
You don't think the ChiP's radioed ahead and it's a road block do you?
quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
That is what the equation says but if you will notice there are quite a few 357's running with 650 to 750 hp and just about 500 ft-lbs.
Butfoy rates in torque.
If I understand the equation correctly, and that depends on how much Bud Light I have consumed, if the hp is up but the torque is remaining constant then it must be the T, or the time in which the torque is being delivered is shorter?
Still that puts the ZF in a safer mode.
yes and agreed
quote:
If someone insists on running the equivalent of a 427 with 500 ft pound right off of idel and topping out in the 650 to 700 range I would bet you a nickel that the ZF doesn't have an icebergs chance in Hell?
I could see a zf lasting awhile behind a big stroker if its just regular driving and smooth and short transitions to WOT. I just can't see racing a stroker cleveland with the ZF reliably but there are people far more experienced in this area than me and knowing what mods can be done to the parts that fail at those power levels. I know some folks cryo treat the gearsets in other transmissions, use hardened input shafts with more splines, but I don't know the tricks for the ZF. I don't know how many of the pantera racers are running strokers either. a longer stroke will move the piston away from tdc quicker provider a stronger vacuum signal at the manifold, so I can see a lot of positives to mild strokers for the street. Personally I just love to wind a motor up and listen to the sound. I don't have much of a stereo in the car, I just roll the windows down and listen to the music outside
No need for a tach or a shift light after awhile from referencing the sound to a given rpm.
A Cleveland has a great sound at speed. The Webers sound weird on them from a distance. They tend to whistle. The driver doesn't hear it but onlookers notice it.
I first had them on my 68 GT350 and was ducted through the built in hood scoop.
That thing you could hear whistling from 1/4 mile a way.
There is one angle on the Pantera in which you can hear the Webers whistling. From the 3/4 rear side view.
Once you are behind it, you tend to just hear the exhausts.
As a driver, the cabin is calm and quiet. Very strange combination.
With the windows down and at a certain speed and rpm you can hear them though.
I was once walking about 20 feet behind a GT40 at the track and just as I crossed behind it the driver reved the engine and the exhaust wave knocked off my cap...from 20 feet.
My Pantera does the same thing.
I first had them on my 68 GT350 and was ducted through the built in hood scoop.
That thing you could hear whistling from 1/4 mile a way.
There is one angle on the Pantera in which you can hear the Webers whistling. From the 3/4 rear side view.
Once you are behind it, you tend to just hear the exhausts.
As a driver, the cabin is calm and quiet. Very strange combination.
With the windows down and at a certain speed and rpm you can hear them though.
I was once walking about 20 feet behind a GT40 at the track and just as I crossed behind it the driver reved the engine and the exhaust wave knocked off my cap...from 20 feet.
My Pantera does the same thing.