Does anyone know if the Ricardo 6 speed transaxle used in the 2005 – 2007 Ford GT will work in the Pantera or, better yet, has anyone installed one? It's a little heavier at 200 pounds but looks like it should fit.
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Steve Wilkinson has installed one in a customer's Pantera, along with a modular V8. So, it fits. But how much modification was required, only Steve knows for sure. I saw the car in its early stages, it had already been heavily modified in the engine bay.
quote:. But how much modification was required, only Steve knows for sure.
I've spoken with Steve about that conversion. He said he basically cut out all the rear frame and inner wheel well panels and went from there.
It is a MAJOR conversion. But, yes you can make it fit.
I've seen front engined old-school VW Bugs with V-8s, and a Porsche 911 with a 455/Eldorado FWD swap, so anything can be done.
If six speeds is your goal, the RBT converted ZF with the added gear will get you to that point much easier.
And probably cheaper.
Larry
Besides the 25% more weight than your 5-speed ZF, the mounting problems, rigging a shifter that will work and the physical size of the thing, the Ricardos are in very short supply. The last one I know of that sold (to a kit-car friend 2 months ago) was $16,000 + shipping. An RBT 6-speed is very little heavier than your 5-speed, fits without altering the back end of the Pantera, hooks up to your existing shifter and costs about the same.
The Ricardo's can be had for $6500 rebuilt, there's a guy in Rugby UK, selling them and has one listed on the US Ebay site right now.
If I was going for anything other than a std ZF I'd get one of the GT Transmissions/Quaife ZFQ's and with recent exchange rates they were under $10K (GBP6500).
Julian
If I was going for anything other than a std ZF I'd get one of the GT Transmissions/Quaife ZFQ's and with recent exchange rates they were under $10K (GBP6500).
Julian
It can be done as the guys here stated, but it does cost some $$$, unless you can do the work yourself. The Ricardo is physically wider than the ZF, and this is the problem with installing it in a "stock" engine compartment. I would not be concerned with the cost of the Ricardo, this is not the issue -- I bought mine brand new from Ford for $13,500 delivered to Panteras by Wilkinson in Paramount from Detroit (about the same money as a rebuilt ZF). The cost comes into the equation when you have to get the thing to fit in the car.
The reason I got it was not for the six speeds. I got it because these transaxles shift like butter. There are three synchros on the forward three speeds, and then two on the last three. So you are getting modern technology for about the same cost as a rebuilt ZF with old technology -- again, the problem is getting this to fit into a Pantera; and yes, my car was heavily modified to make this work. The other thing that I liked about the Ricardo and modular Ford motor is the clutch that can be used. The clutch will have a very light feel to it -- like a Centerforce clutch would have, and it will be able to hold up to 800 horsepower. So you get the best of both worlds, incredible holding power with a feather light clutch pedal along with a small rotating mass.
The other issue that I am aware with the Ricardo 6 speed is getting the starter to fit properly on a 351. The modular Ford motors would be a piece of cake to make work, but I have no idea how it would work to fit to a 351 -- Steve Wilkinson would be a far better source of information concerning if it could be done.
I also do not know about the weight of this transaxle. Again, Steve would be one to answer it correctly as he would be able to actually weigh it on a scale.
One final thought. The final drive ratio in the Ricardo is very different than the ZF as well. The standard Ricardo final drive ratio is 3.3:1, and while there is a conversion to change it over to 3.90:1, this is not a common thing to do -- so there are very few of these. Also, to do this conversion is around $6,500 -- very expensive. The engine that is going into my car should put 650 to 700 horsepower at the rear wheels; so the 3.3 ratio will not be as much of an issue with my car. Yes, the 3.9 rear end would be something for drag racing; but I do not plan to track my car so again, I feel that this is not very good value for the money to do this change.
Mark
The reason I got it was not for the six speeds. I got it because these transaxles shift like butter. There are three synchros on the forward three speeds, and then two on the last three. So you are getting modern technology for about the same cost as a rebuilt ZF with old technology -- again, the problem is getting this to fit into a Pantera; and yes, my car was heavily modified to make this work. The other thing that I liked about the Ricardo and modular Ford motor is the clutch that can be used. The clutch will have a very light feel to it -- like a Centerforce clutch would have, and it will be able to hold up to 800 horsepower. So you get the best of both worlds, incredible holding power with a feather light clutch pedal along with a small rotating mass.
The other issue that I am aware with the Ricardo 6 speed is getting the starter to fit properly on a 351. The modular Ford motors would be a piece of cake to make work, but I have no idea how it would work to fit to a 351 -- Steve Wilkinson would be a far better source of information concerning if it could be done.
I also do not know about the weight of this transaxle. Again, Steve would be one to answer it correctly as he would be able to actually weigh it on a scale.
One final thought. The final drive ratio in the Ricardo is very different than the ZF as well. The standard Ricardo final drive ratio is 3.3:1, and while there is a conversion to change it over to 3.90:1, this is not a common thing to do -- so there are very few of these. Also, to do this conversion is around $6,500 -- very expensive. The engine that is going into my car should put 650 to 700 horsepower at the rear wheels; so the 3.3 ratio will not be as much of an issue with my car. Yes, the 3.9 rear end would be something for drag racing; but I do not plan to track my car so again, I feel that this is not very good value for the money to do this change.
Mark
Thanks for all the input. This forum is absolutely the greatest for that. The reason I asked was that I stumbled across the rebuilt Ricardo’s from the folks in England for $6500. I heard that the Ricardo’s had a good reputation and could handle some serious horsepower. Even picking up the Ricardo for $6500 plus shipping, it doesn’t sound like the conversion behind a Cleveland or Windsor is worth the hassle. Guess I’ll just keep babying the ZF.
Here's a picture of some of the modifications required to fit the Ford GT engine and transaxle into a Pantera. Steve told me he completely rebuilt the rear subframe on this car. Note that the space between the lower frame rails is wider than stock too; he didn't just add bracing to the stock subframe, it's all new construction. Sorry I don't have more pics.
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Here is another shot with the engine and transaxle fitted. Steve is getting closer. Headers are being made right now and fuel tanks are ready along with the fuel supply tubing as well as the engine coolant pipes and the intercooler (or is that aftercooler) piping. Have not had the animal running yet -- but getting close.
Mark
Mark
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Mark,
Do you have an idea of when that monster is going to be completed?
Michael
Do you have an idea of when that monster is going to be completed?
Michael
Cyboman,
Hopefully before I die.....
No idea. It has been a very long progress -- but I guarantee that it is much more along than if I were doing the work. I do not think I would even have the car apart at this stage in my life.
Don't even really know when the engine will come to life in the animal. Should be soon, I would guess sometime this summer -- but I have been proven wrong on my estimates before as well, so it is really hard to say. I have low expectations and high hopes as far as how quickly the work gets completed, and that way, I cannot be disappointed.
To be fair, though, it is a VERY complicated thing to do what I am asking -- I just wish that the work progressed a little faster. I cannot complain at all about the quality of work that is done -- how does that saying go, good things come to those who wait........
Mark
Hopefully before I die.....
No idea. It has been a very long progress -- but I guarantee that it is much more along than if I were doing the work. I do not think I would even have the car apart at this stage in my life.
Don't even really know when the engine will come to life in the animal. Should be soon, I would guess sometime this summer -- but I have been proven wrong on my estimates before as well, so it is really hard to say. I have low expectations and high hopes as far as how quickly the work gets completed, and that way, I cannot be disappointed.
To be fair, though, it is a VERY complicated thing to do what I am asking -- I just wish that the work progressed a little faster. I cannot complain at all about the quality of work that is done -- how does that saying go, good things come to those who wait........
Mark
DeMopuar - PM sent to you !!
andriyko
andriyko
I guess the question is with the RBT 6 speed price and the Ricardo price, what is the rbt 6 speed capable of. The extra gear is great, but are these built to handle anymore power? Looks like there are guys with the GT's making over 800whp with no problems. Obviously when the Ford GT makes 550whp stock, it must be a pretty stout unit. I know of a wrecked GT, but the fabrication involved in this swap looks way out of the range I would probably have a local place undertake, let alone myself. Good luck on the swap though, will definitely be unique and make some power 
Hustler,
I am very curious how this will shift -- as well as how light the clutch pedal will be. I have read, but not driven, about the Ford GT and the clutch has a supposedly light feel to it, but can handle lots of power. Also, the shifting is cable connected -- and it is supposed to be a very smooth shift, which can also be attributed to multiple syncros on each gear. I can only hope this is true. This is what sold me on going the Ricardo route -- handle lots of power, smooth shifting, light clutch pedal. Anything less than that will be a disappointment.
I am very curious how this will shift -- as well as how light the clutch pedal will be. I have read, but not driven, about the Ford GT and the clutch has a supposedly light feel to it, but can handle lots of power. Also, the shifting is cable connected -- and it is supposed to be a very smooth shift, which can also be attributed to multiple syncros on each gear. I can only hope this is true. This is what sold me on going the Ricardo route -- handle lots of power, smooth shifting, light clutch pedal. Anything less than that will be a disappointment.