12 min Video from Brazil

quote:

Originally posted by pantera chris:
davek, on the second video, on the big screen, I could swear he's running Weber's?
Doug, hands off your shiftier when watching.

Pantera Chris, That's Gregg Esakoff's yellow Pantera w/Kinsler EFI intake (similar to a Weber intake w/individual runners).

Here's a pic of what I believe to be the Brazil Pantera (same one from the old PI magazine write-up)

Here is another one:




Happy Holidays!

For the record... I think "Cobra Dave" has a pair of the aftermarket Teflon replacements, so he likely had a leg up on the other boys...

Holy crap... wicked looking set up in that "final spec" pic. Lot going on under that hood!

Thanks for posting that. Really awesome how smoothly he shift and well he sticks. Great suspension - very little roll and even handles those curbs. I wonder how come he qualified so far back?? Sadly the Mrs is sleeping beside me so the sound is turned way down lo. Can't wait to get up and crank up the volume!

quote:

Originally posted by David B:
Thanks for posting that. Really awesome how smoothly he shift and well he sticks. Great suspension - very little roll and even handles those curbs. I wonder how come he qualified so far back?? Sadly the Mrs is sleeping beside me so the sound is turned way down lo. Can't wait to get up and crank up the volume!

More info is needed on the shift mechanism in this car.
It shifts like it is in a video game. Beyond just plain good. It's into the "thought impossible".

Dogbox with straight gears
http://quaife.co.uk/downloads/...fe-Catalogue2015.pdf Page 24

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

quote:

Originally posted by pantera chris:
Our group from the central coast, took off for the races in Palm Spring.
When we hit Pomona the rains came.
The Pantera at 70 in the rain on the freeway brings band new meaning to the word "hydroplaning" and if you have not seen the water shooting out of the sail opening in a driving rain, it's like a trio of fire hoses exiting out the top of the sail,can you say pucker? and I don't mean with your lips, that brave soul in the Cobra exhibited unreal control of his car, great driving!

Death is Natures way of saying slow down?

You need the original size/profile tires for the car to handle reasonably in very wet conditions.

The nature of the mid-engine design makes the car inherently stable but when you reduce the load on the tire by increasing the width of the tire patch it doesn't give you more grip, you get less.

I personally find that the Pantera makes a GREAT bobsled but pushing it back up the hill after the run is a bummer?

A larger width tire weighting MORE & increasing the tire to ground contact area "gives less grip"?!

I thought the weed was strong in California.

Step back from the bong Doug.

quote:

Originally posted by speedunlimited:

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

quote:

Originally posted by pantera chris:
Our group from the central coast, took off for the races in Palm Spring.
When we hit Pomona the rains came.
The Pantera at 70 in the rain on the freeway brings band new meaning to the word "hydroplaning" and if you have not seen the water shooting out of the sail opening in a driving rain, it's like a trio of fire hoses exiting out the top of the sail,can you say pucker? and I don't mean with your lips, that brave soul in the Cobra exhibited unreal control of his car, great driving!

Death is Natures way of saying slow down?

You need the original size/profile tires for the car to handle reasonably in very wet conditions.

The nature of the mid-engine design makes the car inherently stable but when you reduce the load on the tire by increasing the width of the tire patch it doesn't give you more grip, you get less.

I personally find that the Pantera makes a GREAT bobsled but pushing it back up the hill after the run is a bummer?

A larger width tire weighting MORE & increasing the tire to ground contact area "gives less grip"?!

I thought the weed was strong in California.

Step back from the bong Doug.

Yes. You have less loading per square inch and lends disproportionally to hydroplaning.

At Sebring in 64 there was a huge deluge during the race and the only cars left running on the track were the Alfas with their skinny little tires.

All the other cars were surfing around.

Cowabunga Dude! Bad scene. Windsurfing Wipeout!

Thanks for the info SF. Interesting options there. But in that video it sure looks like the original stock shifter with original 5 speed ZF. Maybe he changed a gear or two but I think not. The long throw, tall shift rod and stock pantera knob all seem totally stock. It's the nice suspension setup and killer motor that gives him all the power coming out of the corners.

As for rain, I used to cringe driving my '73 in the wet. But my '82 GT5 was safe and predictable. Even with fat rubber the car stuck very well in the wet. If the shock setting (not stock) is soft, the car is very safe at highway speeds. I was amazed the first time I got caught in the rain. Maybe it was difference between early and late model suspensions.

The wiper, of course, are another story. Does anyone know of a aftermarket single wiper race option for the Pantera?

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

quote:

Originally posted by speedunlimited:

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

quote:

Originally posted by pantera chris:
Our group from the central coast, took off for the races in Palm Spring.
When we hit Pomona the rains came.
The Pantera at 70 in the rain on the freeway brings band new meaning to the word "hydroplaning" and if you have not seen the water shooting out of the sail opening in a driving rain, it's like a trio of fire hoses exiting out the top of the sail,can you say pucker? and I don't mean with your lips, that brave soul in the Cobra exhibited unreal control of his car, great driving!

Death is Natures way of saying slow down?

You need the original size/profile tires for the car to handle reasonably in very wet conditions.

The nature of the mid-engine design makes the car inherently stable but when you reduce the load on the tire by increasing the width of the tire patch it doesn't give you more grip, you get less.

I personally find that the Pantera makes a GREAT bobsled but pushing it back up the hill after the run is a bummer?

A larger width tire weighting MORE & increasing the tire to ground contact area "gives less grip"?!

I thought the weed was strong in California.

Step back from the bong Doug.

Yes. You have less loading per square inch and lends disproportionally to hydroplaning.

At Sebring in 64 there was a huge deluge during the race and the only cars left running on the track were the Alfas with their skinny little tires.

All the other cars were surfing around.

Cowabunga Dude! Bad scene. Windsurfing Wipeout!

In "1964"....Let's fast forward to 2015...51 years LATER.

Tyre compounds & tyre thread patterns have exponentially improved/advanced from the time period ( 1964) you sited.

There is NOT a modern Sports or race car that is not maximizing tyre contact surface area in pursuing greater grip.

Perfect example being the video with the Cobra in the RAIN....DON'T see any "small patch tyres", but then again it isn't 1964...Now quit bogarting that reefer & pass it over!

quote:

Originally posted by speedunlimited:

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

quote:

Originally posted by speedunlimited:

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

quote:

Originally posted by pantera chris:
Our group from the central coast, took off for the races in Palm Spring.
When we hit Pomona the rains came.
The Pantera at 70 in the rain on the freeway brings band new meaning to the word "hydroplaning" and if you have not seen the water shooting out of the sail opening in a driving rain, it's like a trio of fire hoses exiting out the top of the sail,can you say pucker? and I don't mean with your lips, that brave soul in the Cobra exhibited unreal control of his car, great driving!

Death is Natures way of saying slow down?

You need the original size/profile tires for the car to handle reasonably in very wet conditions.

The nature of the mid-engine design makes the car inherently stable but when you reduce the load on the tire by increasing the width of the tire patch it doesn't give you more grip, you get less.

I personally find that the Pantera makes a GREAT bobsled but pushing it back up the hill after the run is a bummer?

A larger width tire weighting MORE & increasing the tire to ground contact area "gives less grip"?!

I thought the weed was strong in California.

Step back from the bong Doug.

Yes. You have less loading per square inch and lends disproportionally to hydroplaning.

At Sebring in 64 there was a huge deluge during the race and the only cars left running on the track were the Alfas with their skinny little tires.

All the other cars were surfing around.

Cowabunga Dude! Bad scene. Windsurfing Wipeout!

In "1964"....Let's fast forward to 2015...51 years LATER.

Tyre compounds & tyre thread patterns have exponentially improved/advanced from the time period ( 1964) you sited.

There is NOT a modern Sports or race car that is not maximizing tyre contact surface area in pursuing greater grip.

Perfect example being the video with the Cobra in the RAIN....DON'T see any "small patch tyres", but then again it isn't 1964...Now quit bogarting that reefer & pass it over!

Bogart with a reefer? Blasphemy.

There was at least 12 inches of water on the track. Some reported 18. Your tire compound wouldn't matter. The car would float away on those tires.

When the drivers opened the doors, the cars were full of water and it would pour out.

The Alphas with their skinny tires were the only ones left moving.

You didn't need to induce dillusions. Reality was better than "Rocky Mountain high in Colorado" - John Denver (of all people).

At the great risk of being forever ridiculed, on these videos it is not apparent how the compressed
charge is entering the engine? Is it because the hat is not on the carb, assuming its a blow through set up?

quote:

Originally posted by pantera chris:
At the great risk of being forever ridiculed, on these videos it is not apparent how the compressed
charge is entering the engine? Is it because the hat is not on the carb, assuming its a blow through set up?

I had not viewed the vids till your comment.

I'll just say; those shop vids were taken by the same camera crew that made the "allien autopsy" vid

quote:

At the great risk of being forever ridiculed, on these videos it is not apparent how the compressed
charge is entering the engine? Is it because the hat is not on the carb, assuming its a blow through set up?

Yes exactly, You can zoom in on the photo and see Ambient Air enters the Center of the Turbos with fat Hoses coming from 2 KN Filters one on each side. The Compressed Air exits the Turbos in thinner Tubes and is routed out through were the quarter Windows normally are. And I would not be surprised if there is an Intercooler in each side also. After that it is routed towards the Throttle Body and ends in two Tubes detached from the Plenum. You can also see i.e. the Lines for Charging pressure sensing for the Waste Gates controle and it looks to me as there is a Blow out Valve on each side just prior to the Plenum also. A totally nice setup and I suppose we are talking 1000+ BHP ??????

Yes, and the boost gauge reads "0"
A friends with smaller turbos made 1200 on a chassis Dino,that's at the wheels. I think it is the plenum you can see in the video of the race.
My friend had the same problem as in the video, even at 60 the tires would break loose if he jumped on it.

quote:

Originally posted by pantera chris:
Yes, and the boost gauge reads "0"
A friends with smaller turbos made 1200 on a chassis Dino,that's at the wheels. I think it is the plenum you can see in the video of the race.
My friend had the same problem as in the video, even at 60 the tires would break loose if he jumped on it.

With 1,200 RWHP, I'd state with utter confidence, your friend's car will "break loose" far beyond 60 mph!

As this is becoming a video collection thread...

A gentle drive in the mountains


Btw, Doug sure has a point - wider doesn't necessarily results in more grip, and less wide can depending on the situation, result in way more grip - ask a rally driver

I think the passenger is praying? I would.

Via Condios!

quote:

Originally posted by Kid:
As this is becoming a video collection thread...

A gentle drive in the mountains


Btw, Doug sure has a point - wider doesn't necessarily results in more grip, and less wide can depending on the situation, result in way more grip - ask a rally driver

Wrong...a "Rally Car" is purposely designed to be slung into corners & break loose in a controlled power drift, their driving style cannot be confused with wanting "tire grip".

Here's a rally video, as you can readily see...it's ALL about "drifting"...NOT..."Grip".

http://www.best10videos.com/vi...ally-driving-videos/

Physics....

A 100kg solid weight evenly spread out over a square meter, or a 100kg solid weight on a square cm - which of the two will you be able to move by pushing it...

A wider tyre allows the use of softer compounds without decreasing the lifetime of a tyre (less stress per square inch). If F1 would use smaller tyres, with the compounds now in use, they would only last two laps - or they have to make the compound harder, but that would result in indeed less grip.

Rainy conditions - without going smaller, means way softer compound (the water prevents overheating of the compound), and additional thread. The thread will (aside of dissipating the water) also increase pressure per square inch (!), as there is less tyre touching the track (see above). The alternative, a less wide tyre, but with less thread...