12 min Video from Brazil

Great!!!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by goodroc:
I tried to search the Forum to see if this Video was previously posted. I didn't come across it so hope it is not old news..........

I have NEVER seen anyone power shift a ZF like this? This guy can drive. Shifts as fast as a paddle shifter!

I'm wondering if there is a cable shifter in this car?

Chris? Is that your shifter at work?

SANTA! I WANT ONE TOO!

There is ZERO play in that shift mechanism and the clutch is releasing perfectly even HOT.

Who the heck is the mechanic here? God? Yikes?



Those straight speeds are right around 200 in a couple of spots. That flat out whine is right there momentarily. He blows by other cars like they are standing still.

This engine is around 700hp. It has to be. It just responds to quickly not to be.

I would say he is running with the "big guys" but he is the big guy on the track "today"!

I don't know what he is using for tires but I didn't see even one squiggle setting up for a turn?

The engine has just the right scream at top rpm!


Who said recently his car reminded a former CanAm driver of the cars back in the day? THIS IS WHY. This IS how those cars accelerated 1,000 pounds lighter and with 150 more cubic inches.

Driving this Pantera will likely give ME concussion syndrome. I don't know about you but I can feel my brain sloshing around in there already?


Love it.

Agree...totally Doug. That vid was great to watch. That boy certainly knows his way around Interlagos...that's for certain.

Totally agree with Doug and Rob! I was surprised by how quickly and easily he blew past what appeared to be smaller and lighter dedicated track/race cars! And yes, he sure can drive. Most racing videos featuring Panteras show the Pantera getting a little loose in the turns. I felt like I playing a PS4 racing game while watching it, except that I never do that well.

Would love to know more about this car if anyone recognizes it or knows more info.

Cheers!
Garth

Here's another favorite - Greg Esakoff at Willow Springs racing the Killer Bee Porsche...

Yes, Mine shifts just like that now, but it don't go like that!
I had to watch it on my smart T.V., this driver is phenomenal, very fast driver, love seeing him blow by everybody like their stopped!

I gotta' get one of those shifters. That's unreal.

quote:

Originally posted by garth66:

Would love to know more about this car if anyone recognizes it or knows more info.

Cheers!
Garth

There was a write-up on the build of this car in a past PI magazine. From the article, it was shown with twin-turbos (which certainly explains the sound and the speed in the video) and inter-coolers stuffed along either side of the engine. As I recall, there was also mention the owner/builder was connected with a DTM race team.

Greg Esakoff's Pantera (in the second video) was at that time still w/o a rear wing and I believe still running DOT (Hoosier) tires. I'm sure all those P cars were running slicks and big wings ;-) They were fast in the corners, but watching Greg's car on the back or front straight at WIR, made it look like everyone else was parked!

Dave

Had to chuckle at the interior passenger door handle being "drilled" for weight saving!

In comparison, notice how MUCH the driver fights the steering wheel vs the first video!

Yes it is unreal how fast he is going, here is another "Hero" I saw David race his Shelby Cobra in 2014 Le Mans Classic where I believe he finished 2nd after one GT40. This Video is from 2012 and unfortunately I haven't been able to find one from 2014. But it kind of gives an idea about the Drivers skills..........

I have to practice my shifting. This is getting ridiculous?

Downshifting in the rain going into a turn is so delicate that I choose not to, even dry, and just downshift coming out of the turn to accelerate hard. Better have your rpm right or there goes the transmission?

I guess I can't drive?

Maybe I need an automatic?

That one is also cool. Fun to watch. He certainly had his hands full compared to Interlagos man. His tail end was loose as a goose... Hell...he was loose at 140mph... he's got great big brass ones in my book...he stayed in the trottle and best I can tell...passed everything out there.

Great to see, can't help it ,but I always have mixed feelings about high end classic racing. I know they are race cars and supposed to be driven hard, but hey you dont take out the Mona Lisa on a picnic do you?

71 Pantera pushbutton
Porsche 968 conv
One off single seater track day car
Subaru Impreza 430 pk
Mgf

Doug, Beverly Hills Car Club sells them with automatics all the time...maybe you can grab yourself one....

I certainly don't have brassy enough ones to let it hang out at 140 like that one dude... so maybe we can get a group rate for the driving lessons.

quote:

Originally posted by Rob Borruso:
Doug, Beverly Hills Car Club sells them with automatics all the time...maybe you can grab yourself one....

I certainly don't have brassy enough ones to let it hang out at 140 like that one dude... so maybe we can get a group rate for the driving lessons.

Teflon. The replacement ones are made from Teflon, not brass.

Shifting lessons, not driving. I had a shift lever come off in my hands the last time I power shifted.

I was impressed with the paddle shifter in the current Porsche Cayman. I couldn't even think as fast as it shifts, but you need good thumbs.

davek, on the second video, on the big screen, I could swear he's running Weber's?
Doug, hands off your shiftier when watching.

quote:

Originally posted by pantera chris:
I could swear he's running Weber's?

Yes, I think so, some times the exhaust pops a little when you step off of the throttle suddenly on a car with big tube headers and Webers.

I think I heard that.



Difficult to get the idle jets just right. 70's are too big 60's too small. Mine are 65s drilled out to 67s. So far so good.

I have another setup to try. Just because it works in another setup doesn't mean it will work in yours?



I'm not playing with my shifter watching, I'm holding a puke bucket.

I am not a good passenger at speed especially in the rain.
Driving is a different story though.

I don't even hear the passenger screaming? My wife beat on my shoulder once to get my attention.

That was ONLY 115 @ 5,500 rpm.

She left her finger nails in my dashboard. They are still there.


Riding in a Cobra at speed? Been there...done that. The Cobra side pipes after a 180 mph run made me dizzy...BUT I was just a passenger.

427sc CSX3036 or 37? forget which one. Not Smiths. He only took the chicks for rides. Forget about driving the car.

8,200 rpm down the straights. The fuel pressure gauge was pulsing back and forth from zero to 7 like a clock ticking.

That was mesmerizing. Maybe it hypnotized me?
Nope. Right ear just started up throbbing again just from watching the video.

No more motorcycles, roadsters or convertibles for me.

Ka-blouie on the ear drums now! I can't even be on a roof now. Broken ear drums give me vertigo?



The Pantera works though. Cabin is quiet. All the noise killing people is behind me.

3" straight through mufflers on the 180s.

I can listen to the stero? My son says the car IS loud. Go figure?

Our group from the central coast, took off for the races in Palm Spring.
When we hit Pomona the rains came.
The Pantera at 70 in the rain on the freeway brings band new meaning to the word "hydroplaning" and if you have not seen the water shooting out of the sail opening in a driving rain, it's like a trio of fire hoses exiting out the top of the sail,can you say pucker? and I don't mean with your lips, that brave soul in the Cobra exhibited unreal control of his car, great driving!

quote:

Originally posted by pantera chris:
Our group from the central coast, took off for the races in Palm Spring.
When we hit Pomona the rains came.
The Pantera at 70 in the rain on the freeway brings band new meaning to the word "hydroplaning" and if you have not seen the water shooting out of the sail opening in a driving rain, it's like a trio of fire hoses exiting out the top of the sail,can you say pucker? and I don't mean with your lips, that brave soul in the Cobra exhibited unreal control of his car, great driving!

Death is Natures way of saying slow down?

You need the original size/profile tires for the car to handle reasonably in very wet conditions.

The nature of the mid-engine design makes the car inherently stable but when you reduce the load on the tire by increasing the width of the tire patch it doesn't give you more grip, you get less.

I personally find that the Pantera makes a GREAT bobsled but pushing it back up the hill after the run is a bummer?

quote:

Originally posted by pantera chris:
davek, on the second video, on the big screen, I could swear he's running Weber's?
Doug, hands off your shiftier when watching.

Pantera Chris, That's Gregg Esakoff's yellow Pantera w/Kinsler EFI intake (similar to a Weber intake w/individual runners).

Here's a pic of what I believe to be the Brazil Pantera (same one from the old PI magazine write-up)

Here is another one:




Happy Holidays!

For the record... I think "Cobra Dave" has a pair of the aftermarket Teflon replacements, so he likely had a leg up on the other boys...

Holy crap... wicked looking set up in that "final spec" pic. Lot going on under that hood!

Thanks for posting that. Really awesome how smoothly he shift and well he sticks. Great suspension - very little roll and even handles those curbs. I wonder how come he qualified so far back?? Sadly the Mrs is sleeping beside me so the sound is turned way down lo. Can't wait to get up and crank up the volume!

quote:

Originally posted by David B:
Thanks for posting that. Really awesome how smoothly he shift and well he sticks. Great suspension - very little roll and even handles those curbs. I wonder how come he qualified so far back?? Sadly the Mrs is sleeping beside me so the sound is turned way down lo. Can't wait to get up and crank up the volume!

More info is needed on the shift mechanism in this car.
It shifts like it is in a video game. Beyond just plain good. It's into the "thought impossible".

Dogbox with straight gears
http://quaife.co.uk/downloads/...fe-Catalogue2015.pdf Page 24

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

quote:

Originally posted by pantera chris:
Our group from the central coast, took off for the races in Palm Spring.
When we hit Pomona the rains came.
The Pantera at 70 in the rain on the freeway brings band new meaning to the word "hydroplaning" and if you have not seen the water shooting out of the sail opening in a driving rain, it's like a trio of fire hoses exiting out the top of the sail,can you say pucker? and I don't mean with your lips, that brave soul in the Cobra exhibited unreal control of his car, great driving!

Death is Natures way of saying slow down?

You need the original size/profile tires for the car to handle reasonably in very wet conditions.

The nature of the mid-engine design makes the car inherently stable but when you reduce the load on the tire by increasing the width of the tire patch it doesn't give you more grip, you get less.

I personally find that the Pantera makes a GREAT bobsled but pushing it back up the hill after the run is a bummer?

A larger width tire weighting MORE & increasing the tire to ground contact area "gives less grip"?!

I thought the weed was strong in California.

Step back from the bong Doug.

quote:

Originally posted by speedunlimited:

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

quote:

Originally posted by pantera chris:
Our group from the central coast, took off for the races in Palm Spring.
When we hit Pomona the rains came.
The Pantera at 70 in the rain on the freeway brings band new meaning to the word "hydroplaning" and if you have not seen the water shooting out of the sail opening in a driving rain, it's like a trio of fire hoses exiting out the top of the sail,can you say pucker? and I don't mean with your lips, that brave soul in the Cobra exhibited unreal control of his car, great driving!

Death is Natures way of saying slow down?

You need the original size/profile tires for the car to handle reasonably in very wet conditions.

The nature of the mid-engine design makes the car inherently stable but when you reduce the load on the tire by increasing the width of the tire patch it doesn't give you more grip, you get less.

I personally find that the Pantera makes a GREAT bobsled but pushing it back up the hill after the run is a bummer?

A larger width tire weighting MORE & increasing the tire to ground contact area "gives less grip"?!

I thought the weed was strong in California.

Step back from the bong Doug.

Yes. You have less loading per square inch and lends disproportionally to hydroplaning.

At Sebring in 64 there was a huge deluge during the race and the only cars left running on the track were the Alfas with their skinny little tires.

All the other cars were surfing around.

Cowabunga Dude! Bad scene. Windsurfing Wipeout!

Thanks for the info SF. Interesting options there. But in that video it sure looks like the original stock shifter with original 5 speed ZF. Maybe he changed a gear or two but I think not. The long throw, tall shift rod and stock pantera knob all seem totally stock. It's the nice suspension setup and killer motor that gives him all the power coming out of the corners.

As for rain, I used to cringe driving my '73 in the wet. But my '82 GT5 was safe and predictable. Even with fat rubber the car stuck very well in the wet. If the shock setting (not stock) is soft, the car is very safe at highway speeds. I was amazed the first time I got caught in the rain. Maybe it was difference between early and late model suspensions.

The wiper, of course, are another story. Does anyone know of a aftermarket single wiper race option for the Pantera?

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

quote:

Originally posted by speedunlimited:

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

quote:

Originally posted by pantera chris:
Our group from the central coast, took off for the races in Palm Spring.
When we hit Pomona the rains came.
The Pantera at 70 in the rain on the freeway brings band new meaning to the word "hydroplaning" and if you have not seen the water shooting out of the sail opening in a driving rain, it's like a trio of fire hoses exiting out the top of the sail,can you say pucker? and I don't mean with your lips, that brave soul in the Cobra exhibited unreal control of his car, great driving!

Death is Natures way of saying slow down?

You need the original size/profile tires for the car to handle reasonably in very wet conditions.

The nature of the mid-engine design makes the car inherently stable but when you reduce the load on the tire by increasing the width of the tire patch it doesn't give you more grip, you get less.

I personally find that the Pantera makes a GREAT bobsled but pushing it back up the hill after the run is a bummer?

A larger width tire weighting MORE & increasing the tire to ground contact area "gives less grip"?!

I thought the weed was strong in California.

Step back from the bong Doug.

Yes. You have less loading per square inch and lends disproportionally to hydroplaning.

At Sebring in 64 there was a huge deluge during the race and the only cars left running on the track were the Alfas with their skinny little tires.

All the other cars were surfing around.

Cowabunga Dude! Bad scene. Windsurfing Wipeout!

In "1964"....Let's fast forward to 2015...51 years LATER.

Tyre compounds & tyre thread patterns have exponentially improved/advanced from the time period ( 1964) you sited.

There is NOT a modern Sports or race car that is not maximizing tyre contact surface area in pursuing greater grip.

Perfect example being the video with the Cobra in the RAIN....DON'T see any "small patch tyres", but then again it isn't 1964...Now quit bogarting that reefer & pass it over!

quote:

Originally posted by speedunlimited:

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

quote:

Originally posted by speedunlimited:

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

quote:

Originally posted by pantera chris:
Our group from the central coast, took off for the races in Palm Spring.
When we hit Pomona the rains came.
The Pantera at 70 in the rain on the freeway brings band new meaning to the word "hydroplaning" and if you have not seen the water shooting out of the sail opening in a driving rain, it's like a trio of fire hoses exiting out the top of the sail,can you say pucker? and I don't mean with your lips, that brave soul in the Cobra exhibited unreal control of his car, great driving!

Death is Natures way of saying slow down?

You need the original size/profile tires for the car to handle reasonably in very wet conditions.

The nature of the mid-engine design makes the car inherently stable but when you reduce the load on the tire by increasing the width of the tire patch it doesn't give you more grip, you get less.

I personally find that the Pantera makes a GREAT bobsled but pushing it back up the hill after the run is a bummer?

A larger width tire weighting MORE & increasing the tire to ground contact area "gives less grip"?!

I thought the weed was strong in California.

Step back from the bong Doug.

Yes. You have less loading per square inch and lends disproportionally to hydroplaning.

At Sebring in 64 there was a huge deluge during the race and the only cars left running on the track were the Alfas with their skinny little tires.

All the other cars were surfing around.

Cowabunga Dude! Bad scene. Windsurfing Wipeout!

In "1964"....Let's fast forward to 2015...51 years LATER.

Tyre compounds & tyre thread patterns have exponentially improved/advanced from the time period ( 1964) you sited.

There is NOT a modern Sports or race car that is not maximizing tyre contact surface area in pursuing greater grip.

Perfect example being the video with the Cobra in the RAIN....DON'T see any "small patch tyres", but then again it isn't 1964...Now quit bogarting that reefer & pass it over!

Bogart with a reefer? Blasphemy.

There was at least 12 inches of water on the track. Some reported 18. Your tire compound wouldn't matter. The car would float away on those tires.

When the drivers opened the doors, the cars were full of water and it would pour out.

The Alphas with their skinny tires were the only ones left moving.

You didn't need to induce dillusions. Reality was better than "Rocky Mountain high in Colorado" - John Denver (of all people).

At the great risk of being forever ridiculed, on these videos it is not apparent how the compressed
charge is entering the engine? Is it because the hat is not on the carb, assuming its a blow through set up?

quote:

Originally posted by pantera chris:
At the great risk of being forever ridiculed, on these videos it is not apparent how the compressed
charge is entering the engine? Is it because the hat is not on the carb, assuming its a blow through set up?

I had not viewed the vids till your comment.

I'll just say; those shop vids were taken by the same camera crew that made the "allien autopsy" vid

quote:

At the great risk of being forever ridiculed, on these videos it is not apparent how the compressed
charge is entering the engine? Is it because the hat is not on the carb, assuming its a blow through set up?

Yes exactly, You can zoom in on the photo and see Ambient Air enters the Center of the Turbos with fat Hoses coming from 2 KN Filters one on each side. The Compressed Air exits the Turbos in thinner Tubes and is routed out through were the quarter Windows normally are. And I would not be surprised if there is an Intercooler in each side also. After that it is routed towards the Throttle Body and ends in two Tubes detached from the Plenum. You can also see i.e. the Lines for Charging pressure sensing for the Waste Gates controle and it looks to me as there is a Blow out Valve on each side just prior to the Plenum also. A totally nice setup and I suppose we are talking 1000+ BHP ??????

Yes, and the boost gauge reads "0"
A friends with smaller turbos made 1200 on a chassis Dino,that's at the wheels. I think it is the plenum you can see in the video of the race.
My friend had the same problem as in the video, even at 60 the tires would break loose if he jumped on it.

quote:

Originally posted by pantera chris:
Yes, and the boost gauge reads "0"
A friends with smaller turbos made 1200 on a chassis Dino,that's at the wheels. I think it is the plenum you can see in the video of the race.
My friend had the same problem as in the video, even at 60 the tires would break loose if he jumped on it.

With 1,200 RWHP, I'd state with utter confidence, your friend's car will "break loose" far beyond 60 mph!

As this is becoming a video collection thread...

A gentle drive in the mountains


Btw, Doug sure has a point - wider doesn't necessarily results in more grip, and less wide can depending on the situation, result in way more grip - ask a rally driver

I think the passenger is praying? I would.

Via Condios!

quote:

Originally posted by Kid:
As this is becoming a video collection thread...

A gentle drive in the mountains


Btw, Doug sure has a point - wider doesn't necessarily results in more grip, and less wide can depending on the situation, result in way more grip - ask a rally driver

Wrong...a "Rally Car" is purposely designed to be slung into corners & break loose in a controlled power drift, their driving style cannot be confused with wanting "tire grip".

Here's a rally video, as you can readily see...it's ALL about "drifting"...NOT..."Grip".

http://www.best10videos.com/vi...ally-driving-videos/

Physics....

A 100kg solid weight evenly spread out over a square meter, or a 100kg solid weight on a square cm - which of the two will you be able to move by pushing it...

A wider tyre allows the use of softer compounds without decreasing the lifetime of a tyre (less stress per square inch). If F1 would use smaller tyres, with the compounds now in use, they would only last two laps - or they have to make the compound harder, but that would result in indeed less grip.

Rainy conditions - without going smaller, means way softer compound (the water prevents overheating of the compound), and additional thread. The thread will (aside of dissipating the water) also increase pressure per square inch (!), as there is less tyre touching the track (see above). The alternative, a less wide tyre, but with less thread...