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#1905 Part Duex

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C comp2Member
quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Woods:
It's looking good Gary. Are you doing way with your rear quarter window? That's my favourite part of the car.
Looks like your planning on some big hood vents.. Keep the pictures coming.

Johnny


At this point I am planning on making my own intake ducts for the side window. Not sure if they will e aluminum or fiberglass. Probably fiberglass. The oil cooler and oil accumulator will be on the left so I will duct air in for that. I am going to build the gas tank on the right.

There will be a large hood vent in the front. Probably like the EX3 Pantera. The plan is to build the hood from scratch out of aluminum. Then when I give up on it to go buy a carbon fibre hood. Smiler
C comp2Member
Yes that's Gary who is in Southern Indiana not to be confused with "Gary Indiana" which is in northern Indiana.

Nazgul, I am making it myself. If you look at the first post here, the car is upside down with a cardboard template. I used that to determine how I wanted to make the shape.

The plates were built from 3/16" steel plate. They will have steel tubes welded through the frame with plates on the bottom as well.

The tubes were Tig welded.

I have a lot more more tubes to add.

Gary
accobraaccobraMember
It appears to me the cage is bolt in and could be slid foward to get the fire wall cover on ....BUT the center access cover would have to be able to be removeable without taking the larger cover off.

Accutally thats a good idea ,,because I dont know why its that way from the factory ..it makes have\ing to set timing and stuff like that an all day project.

Gary couple minor things ... only the rear hoop and if you added a front hoop have to be 1.75 mild steel.. the rest of the bars or braces could be of any suitable diamter and wall thickness ... I remembered this from the RULE BOOK. Just in case you do run into space or a small conflict.

Anyway nice work ..keep it up.

Ron

Ron
C comp2Member
Thanks Ron,

Which sanctioning body is that for? My main hoop is 1-3/4 dom 1/8" which would be good for the NHRA. I don't plan on doing anything other then test n tune type drags so I doubt anyone will inspect it that closely. If I enter a NHRA event then I think they would look at it a bit more closely.

Seems every sanctioning body wants something a little different. At least with grinder, saws, welder I can change it!

The only thing which is going to throw a monkey wrench in getting it out of the car is I plan on sending top tubes through the back window which will attach at the decklid hinge then go down to the wheel well. I will make them separate at the window but it's one more piece to maneuver.
accobraaccobraMember
Gary actually it was SCCA rules and I had remebered NHRA rules ... Both you and I shouldnt really have to worry since I dont think we will be competeing competitively. But the RULES give you some guidelines and I see your on the right track. Bigger is always better when your upsidedown >>LOL

I;m still contanplating a square hoop to outline the outer edge of the roof line and door post which I can attach tube to and keep the rear window.

Ron
C comp2Member
quote:
Originally posted by accobra:
Gary actually it was SCCA rules and I had remebered NHRA rules ... Both you and I shouldnt really have to worry since I dont think we will be competeing competitively. But the RULES give you some guidelines and I see your on the right track. Bigger is always better when your upsidedown >>LOL

I;m still contanplating a square hoop to outline the outer edge of the roof line and door post which I can attach tube to and keep the rear window.

Ron


I'd like to see it.

My brother does some running on a track. While they do have tech they are more picky about roll bars in cars without tops. Mainly they are interested in if you are leaking fluid. Like you said, I would like to do some things but not competitively.
C comp2Member
Ron, I am going to have to print a copy and sit on the john to read that. It's going to take a little for all that to sink in.

Are you really wanting to go with square tubing? I doubt it would meet anyone's specs but your own. Are you not liking the idea of bending the pipe? I had the main hoop bent but I have been bending the rest with a Harbor freight tubing bender. I have been able to get good bends up to 30 degrees. I have not gone past 30 degrees. There are a trick though. For 1-3/4 DOM use the 1-1/4" die!!!! I don't think the Chinese use the same measuring stick we do!
pittcrewpittcrewOwner etc. of 3785
Headers look nice Gary!
I had a couple of questions.
Did your engine guy give you a guideline of what size primary pipe to run and how long they needed to be?
Is that information what you used to configure the set up you are working on?
I thought I read in another post that you were going to use oval tubing for clearance around the frame. Did that not work?
What are you using for mufflers and how are they going to exit the car?
Sorry for all the questions but I think this kind of fab is cool. You ,Johnny and Ron are my Heroes.
C comp2Member
quote:
Originally posted by Pittcrew:
Did your engine guy give you a guideline of what size primary pipe to run and how long they needed to be?


I had used some on line calculators some time ago to as well as some calculations Hot Rod published. They both pointed to 1-3/4" primaries. Any larger I might increase power slightly but loose more midrange power and possibly idle issues.

quote:

Is that information what you used to configure the set up you are working on?


Honestly this design is based more on physical function then engine function. I see people make huge changes in exhaust and get a small improvement in say mid range power yet small change in over all power. Some of this may be noticeable on a dyno but I doubt a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I simply wanted to make sure the primaries and secondaries were big enough for flow.

I plan on running the engine again on a dyno with my old headers and these headers, with the Barry Grant carburetor and the 4 down draft webbers. I want to see the difference in the carbs and with the headers. There is more at work here then what I can totally grasp and I would like to see through testing the difference.

quote:

I thought I read in another post that you were going to use oval tubing for clearance around the frame. Did that not work?


Some one else had suggested that but I never had any intention of doing that.

quote:

What are you using for mufflers and how are they going to exit the car?


Thinking of making my own mufflers! Still looking at designs. I have some ideas which will look similar from behind but may enter through the top of the rear instead of the rear. We'll see where we go from here.

quote:

Sorry for all the questions but I think this kind of fab is cool. You ,Johnny and Ron are my Heroes.


If there is anything I have learned is that EVERYONE is more capable then they know!! Everyone!
C comp2Member
I am going over the suspension on both sides. It clears the exhaust by quite a bit actually. The exhaust is inside the wheel well frame work and even if the tire contacts the frame it will not encroach in that area.

Gas tank to the right because oil coolers and stuff going on side with filter. I don't want to route lines over to the right.

More latter, off on a trip.

Gary
C comp2Member
quote:
Originally posted by Speedzone:
COMP2, which heads by CHI are you running, and whats the CID of your motor? I've got the 208cc heads on order right now for my 408C, as well as the intake like you've got. Cant wait to fresh'n my motor up, as it's now puffing a little blue smoke, which I find VERY embassasing!! Its low miles, but I suspect a cracked ring.........


It would be worth looking at the heads when you get them. When they originally made the 3V they did not flow as good as the 2V in low rpm. The reason was the intake seat area on the 3V was not radiused like the 2V. My builder modified mine but it may be worth looking into. Not a big deal as they are good heads. They are may be doing it better now.
C comp2Member
quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Woods:
Very impressive Gary! show us a picture of your pipe bender would you.

Johnny


For the exhaust or the roll bar? The exhaust is pre-bent then welded. You just cut section by section like a jig saw puzzle:


The roll bar was bent with Harbor Freight pipe bender. Did a darn good job too!:



Remember to put plates under the rollers to keep it from denting the tubing:

C comp2Member
There is a limit to the size exhaust I can get through the suspension. The tubes that were on their was a single 1-7/8 and they were bent from suspension contact. I can get 2 much larger tubes over the top. I really did not want to go with 180's through the back.

Gary

quote:
Originally posted by Mark:
Gary,

Not trying to be an a** but why are you changing the exhust from running under the car?
pittcrewpittcrewOwner etc. of 3785
Nice work Gary.
Here is a pic of the engine test stand I am building.
I have had one in the shop for years that I bought comercially but I have not been very happy with it. They made too many design consessions to be able to fit it in a box.
The new one is heavier materials and the engine is better supported. I have had to make it universal because of all the different brands of engines I run on it.
Of course I made sure the Pantera engine fit on it first

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pittcrewpittcrewOwner etc. of 3785
Pretty basic stuff.
Make sure the mounting structures clear whatever kind of headers you will be running.

Give your self plenty of room at the front of the engine to get to the dist and check timing etc.
The commercial unit I bought was bad for this, the gauge panel sits right on top of the dist and waterpump pulley.

Make sure your engine hoist legs fit under it for positioning the engine. I had to weld riser blocks on the commercial unit.

I made the sections all removable so if I have to tear into a timing set,cam or whatever, the front of the stand can be removed for access to the front of the engine.

I am also welding tie downs on it so it can be transported with a engine on it.

I am setting the fuel system up to be able to use the mech pump on the engine or feed it with a electric pump. Give yourself enough room on the gauge panel for additional gauges if you need them such as egt, boost etc.

I use a Edelbrock AFR meter that I mount in a set of removeable collector adapters. I believe you use a LM-1 so you should be good. I have adapters to bolt on a set of mufflers so I can hear for noises in the engine.

Thats pretty much it. Good luck in your fabbing.
pittcrewpittcrewOwner etc. of 3785
Here is a pic of a AMC 401 that a customer brought in mounted on the commercial stand.

I use tap water in a continuous flow to cool the engine. This is done without a thermostat in the engine. I have a shut off valve to meter the volume of water to stabilize the engine temp. I usually run them in at 180 degrees. After running the engine I pull the block plugs to drain the block and fill it with 50/50 antifreeze so no rust forms.

There are + and - to this system. The good is you dont have the bulk of a radiator in the way and have to worry about air locks and trying to maintain temp. The bad is it uses a lot of water in a 30min run in, the possibility of rust and re-removing the water neck to install a stat.

You can see the extensions I made at the rear of the stand to get the motor out of the dash area. You can also see the riser blocks to pick it up for the engine hoist clearance.

Im sure you will come up with something very cool as usual.

What part of Utah did your car come out of?

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pittcrewpittcrewOwner etc. of 3785
Did your car at one time have a all aluminum big block in it?
I remember seeing a fancy red wide body Pantera at a show in Park City that had a all Aluminum bigblock in it. I think it also had wood inlays in the door panels.
I know I have either pics or video of the car somewhere. It was the wildest thing ever.
O osofastMember
That last application showing the tube notched and fitted to the mount. I was just wondering aren't the bolts in a sheer application??? Just me here thinking...would'nt taking a larger piece of tubing and sliding over the notched sections then passing the bolts through that outer piece be the strongest way to make that joint???
Jeff
C comp2Member
Hey Ron,

Going slow right now with some diversions. Building a cam from scratch for a 1902 olds. Wrote a program to profile 2 cams at 10 degree segments.

Also working on a computer program for the engine test stand. I want to read and log a host of parameters including 8 individual O2 locations and 2 O2 locations to help tune the Webbers.

And some other stuff.

If there is one thing I know, time FLIES as you get older!
accobraaccobraMember
"Going slow right now with some diversions. "

Wow making a cam ..sounds like high school mechanical drawing ..we did that.

I like the idea of the o2 sensors to tune webers.

ME ? well got a great deal on a Ingersol Rand 5hp compressor ... 1/2 price because I bought another one for a large project ....and finally completed my radiant garage heating piping and bought a instantaneous heater ..just got to install it ..it got too cold very fast here in NY to work and the garage seems colder then outside.

This is my new excuse ?? LOL

Ron
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