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#1905 Part Duex

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C comp2Member
quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Woods:
It's looking good Gary. Are you doing way with your rear quarter window? That's my favourite part of the car.
Looks like your planning on some big hood vents.. Keep the pictures coming.

Johnny


At this point I am planning on making my own intake ducts for the side window. Not sure if they will e aluminum or fiberglass. Probably fiberglass. The oil cooler and oil accumulator will be on the left so I will duct air in for that. I am going to build the gas tank on the right.

There will be a large hood vent in the front. Probably like the EX3 Pantera. The plan is to build the hood from scratch out of aluminum. Then when I give up on it to go buy a carbon fibre hood. Smiler
C comp2Member
Yes that's Gary who is in Southern Indiana not to be confused with "Gary Indiana" which is in northern Indiana.

Nazgul, I am making it myself. If you look at the first post here, the car is upside down with a cardboard template. I used that to determine how I wanted to make the shape.

The plates were built from 3/16" steel plate. They will have steel tubes welded through the frame with plates on the bottom as well.

The tubes were Tig welded.

I have a lot more more tubes to add.

Gary
accobraaccobraMember
It appears to me the cage is bolt in and could be slid foward to get the fire wall cover on ....BUT the center access cover would have to be able to be removeable without taking the larger cover off.

Accutally thats a good idea ,,because I dont know why its that way from the factory ..it makes have\ing to set timing and stuff like that an all day project.

Gary couple minor things ... only the rear hoop and if you added a front hoop have to be 1.75 mild steel.. the rest of the bars or braces could be of any suitable diamter and wall thickness ... I remembered this from the RULE BOOK. Just in case you do run into space or a small conflict.

Anyway nice work ..keep it up.

Ron

Ron
C comp2Member
Thanks Ron,

Which sanctioning body is that for? My main hoop is 1-3/4 dom 1/8" which would be good for the NHRA. I don't plan on doing anything other then test n tune type drags so I doubt anyone will inspect it that closely. If I enter a NHRA event then I think they would look at it a bit more closely.

Seems every sanctioning body wants something a little different. At least with grinder, saws, welder I can change it!

The only thing which is going to throw a monkey wrench in getting it out of the car is I plan on sending top tubes through the back window which will attach at the decklid hinge then go down to the wheel well. I will make them separate at the window but it's one more piece to maneuver.
accobraaccobraMember
Gary actually it was SCCA rules and I had remebered NHRA rules ... Both you and I shouldnt really have to worry since I dont think we will be competeing competitively. But the RULES give you some guidelines and I see your on the right track. Bigger is always better when your upsidedown >>LOL

I;m still contanplating a square hoop to outline the outer edge of the roof line and door post which I can attach tube to and keep the rear window.

Ron
C comp2Member
quote:
Originally posted by accobra:
Gary actually it was SCCA rules and I had remebered NHRA rules ... Both you and I shouldnt really have to worry since I dont think we will be competeing competitively. But the RULES give you some guidelines and I see your on the right track. Bigger is always better when your upsidedown >>LOL

I;m still contanplating a square hoop to outline the outer edge of the roof line and door post which I can attach tube to and keep the rear window.

Ron


I'd like to see it.

My brother does some running on a track. While they do have tech they are more picky about roll bars in cars without tops. Mainly they are interested in if you are leaking fluid. Like you said, I would like to do some things but not competitively.
C comp2Member
Ron, I am going to have to print a copy and sit on the john to read that. It's going to take a little for all that to sink in.

Are you really wanting to go with square tubing? I doubt it would meet anyone's specs but your own. Are you not liking the idea of bending the pipe? I had the main hoop bent but I have been bending the rest with a Harbor freight tubing bender. I have been able to get good bends up to 30 degrees. I have not gone past 30 degrees. There are a trick though. For 1-3/4 DOM use the 1-1/4" die!!!! I don't think the Chinese use the same measuring stick we do!
pittcrewpittcrewOwner etc. of 3785
Headers look nice Gary!
I had a couple of questions.
Did your engine guy give you a guideline of what size primary pipe to run and how long they needed to be?
Is that information what you used to configure the set up you are working on?
I thought I read in another post that you were going to use oval tubing for clearance around the frame. Did that not work?
What are you using for mufflers and how are they going to exit the car?
Sorry for all the questions but I think this kind of fab is cool. You ,Johnny and Ron are my Heroes.
C comp2Member
quote:
Originally posted by Pittcrew:
Did your engine guy give you a guideline of what size primary pipe to run and how long they needed to be?


I had used some on line calculators some time ago to as well as some calculations Hot Rod published. They both pointed to 1-3/4" primaries. Any larger I might increase power slightly but loose more midrange power and possibly idle issues.

quote:

Is that information what you used to configure the set up you are working on?


Honestly this design is based more on physical function then engine function. I see people make huge changes in exhaust and get a small improvement in say mid range power yet small change in over all power. Some of this may be noticeable on a dyno but I doubt a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I simply wanted to make sure the primaries and secondaries were big enough for flow.

I plan on running the engine again on a dyno with my old headers and these headers, with the Barry Grant carburetor and the 4 down draft webbers. I want to see the difference in the carbs and with the headers. There is more at work here then what I can totally grasp and I would like to see through testing the difference.

quote:

I thought I read in another post that you were going to use oval tubing for clearance around the frame. Did that not work?


Some one else had suggested that but I never had any intention of doing that.

quote:

What are you using for mufflers and how are they going to exit the car?


Thinking of making my own mufflers! Still looking at designs. I have some ideas which will look similar from behind but may enter through the top of the rear instead of the rear. We'll see where we go from here.

quote:

Sorry for all the questions but I think this kind of fab is cool. You ,Johnny and Ron are my Heroes.


If there is anything I have learned is that EVERYONE is more capable then they know!! Everyone!
C comp2Member
I am going over the suspension on both sides. It clears the exhaust by quite a bit actually. The exhaust is inside the wheel well frame work and even if the tire contacts the frame it will not encroach in that area.

Gas tank to the right because oil coolers and stuff going on side with filter. I don't want to route lines over to the right.

More latter, off on a trip.

Gary
C comp2Member
quote:
Originally posted by Speedzone:
COMP2, which heads by CHI are you running, and whats the CID of your motor? I've got the 208cc heads on order right now for my 408C, as well as the intake like you've got. Cant wait to fresh'n my motor up, as it's now puffing a little blue smoke, which I find VERY embassasing!! Its low miles, but I suspect a cracked ring.........


It would be worth looking at the heads when you get them. When they originally made the 3V they did not flow as good as the 2V in low rpm. The reason was the intake seat area on the 3V was not radiused like the 2V. My builder modified mine but it may be worth looking into. Not a big deal as they are good heads. They are may be doing it better now.
C comp2Member
quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Woods:
Very impressive Gary! show us a picture of your pipe bender would you.

Johnny


For the exhaust or the roll bar? The exhaust is pre-bent then welded. You just cut section by section like a jig saw puzzle:


The roll bar was bent with Harbor Freight pipe bender. Did a darn good job too!:



Remember to put plates under the rollers to keep it from denting the tubing:

C comp2Member
There is a limit to the size exhaust I can get through the suspension. The tubes that were on their was a single 1-7/8 and they were bent from suspension contact. I can get 2 much larger tubes over the top. I really did not want to go with 180's through the back.

Gary

quote:
Originally posted by Mark:
Gary,

Not trying to be an a** but why are you changing the exhust from running under the car?
pittcrewpittcrewOwner etc. of 3785
Nice work Gary.
Here is a pic of the engine test stand I am building.
I have had one in the shop for years that I bought comercially but I have not been very happy with it. They made too many design consessions to be able to fit it in a box.
The new one is heavier materials and the engine is better supported. I have had to make it universal because of all the different brands of engines I run on it.
Of course I made sure the Pantera engine fit on it first

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pittcrewpittcrewOwner etc. of 3785
Pretty basic stuff.
Make sure the mounting structures clear whatever kind of headers you will be running.

Give your self plenty of room at the front of the engine to get to the dist and check timing etc.
The commercial unit I bought was bad for this, the gauge panel sits right on top of the dist and waterpump pulley.

Make sure your engine hoist legs fit under it for positioning the engine. I had to weld riser blocks on the commercial unit.

I made the sections all removable so if I have to tear into a timing set,cam or whatever, the front of the stand can be removed for access to the front of the engine.

I am also welding tie downs on it so it can be transported with a engine on it.

I am setting the fuel system up to be able to use the mech pump on the engine or feed it with a electric pump. Give yourself enough room on the gauge panel for additional gauges if you need them such as egt, boost etc.

I use a Edelbrock AFR meter that I mount in a set of removeable collector adapters. I believe you use a LM-1 so you should be good. I have adapters to bolt on a set of mufflers so I can hear for noises in the engine.

Thats pretty much it. Good luck in your fabbing.
pittcrewpittcrewOwner etc. of 3785
Here is a pic of a AMC 401 that a customer brought in mounted on the commercial stand.

I use tap water in a continuous flow to cool the engine. This is done without a thermostat in the engine. I have a shut off valve to meter the volume of water to stabilize the engine temp. I usually run them in at 180 degrees. After running the engine I pull the block plugs to drain the block and fill it with 50/50 antifreeze so no rust forms.

There are + and - to this system. The good is you dont have the bulk of a radiator in the way and have to worry about air locks and trying to maintain temp. The bad is it uses a lot of water in a 30min run in, the possibility of rust and re-removing the water neck to install a stat.

You can see the extensions I made at the rear of the stand to get the motor out of the dash area. You can also see the riser blocks to pick it up for the engine hoist clearance.

Im sure you will come up with something very cool as usual.

What part of Utah did your car come out of?

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pittcrewpittcrewOwner etc. of 3785
Did your car at one time have a all aluminum big block in it?
I remember seeing a fancy red wide body Pantera at a show in Park City that had a all Aluminum bigblock in it. I think it also had wood inlays in the door panels.
I know I have either pics or video of the car somewhere. It was the wildest thing ever.
O osofastMember
That last application showing the tube notched and fitted to the mount. I was just wondering aren't the bolts in a sheer application??? Just me here thinking...would'nt taking a larger piece of tubing and sliding over the notched sections then passing the bolts through that outer piece be the strongest way to make that joint???
Jeff
C comp2Member
Hey Ron,

Going slow right now with some diversions. Building a cam from scratch for a 1902 olds. Wrote a program to profile 2 cams at 10 degree segments.

Also working on a computer program for the engine test stand. I want to read and log a host of parameters including 8 individual O2 locations and 2 O2 locations to help tune the Webbers.

And some other stuff.

If there is one thing I know, time FLIES as you get older!
accobraaccobraMember
"Going slow right now with some diversions. "

Wow making a cam ..sounds like high school mechanical drawing ..we did that.

I like the idea of the o2 sensors to tune webers.

ME ? well got a great deal on a Ingersol Rand 5hp compressor ... 1/2 price because I bought another one for a large project ....and finally completed my radiant garage heating piping and bought a instantaneous heater ..just got to install it ..it got too cold very fast here in NY to work and the garage seems colder then outside.

This is my new excuse ?? LOL

Ron
C comp2Member
Hi Cliff, I am only waiting on putting the engine back in for mock up. I have most of it done. The only thing I am waiting on is the gussets to mount the round tube with bushings to the trans plate. These are the latest photos:

http://www.rc-tech.net/cars/panttransam/1905/trans/

I have a list of things I am doing. I have a number of things I will be doing before I get to that point.

Are you looking to do the conversion? Hall and other shops do offer a a conversion package. What I like about the one I did was it really beefs up the sway bar area and I have mounting nuts in the top of other things.
C cliffmbyahoocomMember
Gary,

Sorry for not responding sooner but work has been very demanding. In answer to you question of if I plan on doing the conversion, (transaxle side mount conversion) the answer is yes. I like your version because as you stated "it really beefs up the sway bar area: Please keep up the excellent work and the pictures coming. Hopefully before long I am still be able to start back on my cat, still acquiring parts, patterns and equipment.

Cliff
C comp2Member
Well I have about finished my "Spring List" which means pretty shortly I should be hot after it again. We did some landscaping, tilled up a side yard we pulled trees form last year, planted about a 1/2 acre of grass, added trees, sealed the concrete, pulled the engine from the MGB fixed a few things, put it back, made some suspension changes on the MGB for the better, painted the rims on the Trans Am (more work then that sounds), got a new job flying jets, and I have checked a dozen other things off the list.

The Pantera has made it's way back to the top of the list. I am leaving for a trip but when I get back I hope to be back in the groove on it.

Gary
C comp2Member
Mark they fit fine. I have ran the suspension with tire through full travel and I am clear. I still need to make the back half into the mufflers which at this point won't be too much trouble.

They are the type of thing which probably need to be custom built to the car. I have the Ford 400 in mine so the heads are higher and further out which meats these won't fit the 351 (and align). I think the headers are going to be a great alternative to the 180's. As usual several experts told me it wouldn't work but seems to be just fine. Some experts told me heat would blow the tire but under normal driving attitude it was actually further from the tire then when the exhaust is routed through the suspension.

The only thing I wonder is if it will effect the paint on the well. If it does I will add heat shield.

I really wanted to be able to use the tub and I wanted an open exhaust and this seemes to be the answer:

C comp2Member
Brooke the flywheel is a CenterForce Pn:700290. It needs to be neutrally balanced and this was not. A quick trip to the balancing shop and it is now neutral.

Cleveland starter did not work but I went to O'Reilly's and got a Ford 460 starter for $71.68 including core charge and tax. The 460 starter is a good starter.
Last edited by comp2
pittcrewpittcrewOwner etc. of 3785
I am putting in a 400.
My 351C short block is trash.
My original goal was to refresh the engine in my car to a nice 300-350HP level and then build a fancy stroker later after I was driving and enjoying the car.

That changed slightly when my short block turned out to be junk. The machine shop I use are big fans of the 400 and had been pressing me to use one. I remember buiding one for a truck in the early 90's with 2v clev heads and bushed rods and pop up pistons that ran really well.

I found a great deal on a 78 400 cast at the Cleveland foundry.My machine shop gave me a dead 400 block to use for mock up so I decided to park a 400 short block under my 4V heads and intake and build a mild engine as originally planned....Only bigger. Smiler

I had been following your build with your one off cast bellhousing and was looking to fab my own adapter when Quick Time released their bellhousing. It looks like you have one also.Did you decide not to use your original one?

www.quicktimeinc.com

I have pn RM-8012. Cost was $415 and I bought it direct. Here is a pic of the kit.

The reason I asked about the flywheel is the Quick Time web site lists a 184 tooth flywheel as the application for the 8012 bellhousing. IIRC the standard 400 flywheel is 180 and I could only find 184 for FE applications.

I will try your recommendation of the 182 and a 460 starter.

I had planned on fabbing my own headers anyway and now I just add motor mounts to that. I am a ways from mock up but am buying parts ahead of where I am so I will be ready when I get to that point.

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C comp2Member
I will tell you it started right up. I did have to hog out the back plate which came with the bell housing to get the starter to fit. The opening just needed to be open more. Did not change the alignment bolts and it starts fine.

You want to start another thread for your engine? Would love to follow the progress. Did you see the engine mounts I made and how I did? You can drill and tap one side of the 400 for the Cleveland mount. The embosement was there on one side.

You know Tim has stroker kits for it.
http://www.tmeyerinc.com/

Let me know how I can help.
Last edited by comp2
pittcrewpittcrewOwner etc. of 3785
I did see your mounts, they looked nice. I am trying to decide if I want to do it that way or fab the lower mount and use the truck mounts on the block. I will check price and availability of the trunk mounts first and maybe that will help me decide.

I could start a thread. I think you have covered most of it really good here.

Maybe I will start a thread when I get farther along and have more defined solutions to my installation.I don't want it to be redundant to what you have posted.

Our application differences will be me using my 351C heads and intake, my retaining my AC and factory belt drive system. I will for the time being, be using factory GTS Ansa mufflers so my new headers will tie into them.

My goal is to do this swap changing the fewest parts possible and see how far I can simplify it."Dummy it down" I think is the term people use.
I have had some people ask why I just don't go 460 and as you have previously stated its about packaging. The 400 I think will be less fab/relocating. I have also had people ask why I dont get another C block and stroke it. Well, with the 400 I already have, I just did it with a short block change instead of a kit. When I do buy a stroker kit it will be even bigger.

Building a hot rod 400 is not a new concept, the 4X4 crowd around here have been doing it for years. I think its the application in a Pantera that is not so common but I'm sure others have done it.

I can see I have to fab a mount for my existing clutch slave.
What are you doing for your throwout?
A hydraulic bearing?

I saw Tim's stroker kits on his web site. That will be a good choice for a later engine.

Just keep posting on your thread and that will be a big help. Things like how you overcame your starter problem and issues like that help a lot especially if someone else is also thinking of doing the same swap.
C comp2Member
Oh I would love for you to start a duplicate thread. I don't think it would be redundant at all. I have been a little slow but I have had a tremendously productive spring and hope to pick up steam again shortly. I did get one fender vent welded in. I am off to simulator training for 2 weeks so I hope to really start to focus on it when I get back:

C comp2Member
BROOKE,

I got the low down on the flywheel. I got screwed up in our exchanges, I wasn't sure what we tried but I checked it out and I am 100% sure what I got now.

I DO have Centerforce #700290 and it IS a 176 tooth flywheel. I confirmed by both counting the teeth and verifying the numbers on the flywheel. I hope I have not confused you but some how I snapped back into some other discussions with Tim.

It DOES need to be BALANCED NEUTRAL which can be done at a balance shop. If you have a hard time finding one let me know I have a good one here I can steer you too.

C comp2Member
This is the list I keep in the garage. It is ever updated on Excel.

Top Left is a work in progress on the Pantera. I expand each phase as I get to it. Right now I have everything listed I need to do before I put the car back on the rotisserie, what needs to be done before it comes off, and the order of things before paint. I don't have much past it as this is my main concern now.

As I update things, add things, cross things off I change it in Excel and print out the latest copy.

The bottom sheets keep track of everything from oil changes, types, filter numbers, tires, mileage, etc on the other cars.

The top right sheets are to do's and squawks for the other cars.

These list really help me walk away for a couple weeks at a time and dive right back in it when I get time.

pittcrewpittcrewOwner etc. of 3785
Gary,
I ran into a snag today with the bellhousing.
My Dad came over to the shop and wanted to see my fancy bellhousing mounted to the ZF.
As it turnes out the bellhousing is made for the GT40 application so the bolt pattern is 180 off from how it mounts in the Pantera.
He held it up to my ZF and said that there was no way it was going on there. He was half right it bolted up fine when it was upside down!
My solution will be to call them Monday and see if they can make me one with the ring rotated 180 or I will transfer punch this one, mount it to a milling machine and redrill it myself.
I think the Mangusta is 180 from the pantera also. Hmmmm a 460 in a Mangusta...
Here are the pics from today

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pittcrewpittcrewOwner etc. of 3785
Here it is rotated so the holes line up.

Another clue was that the top two holes on the Quick time bellhousing are not threaded. The bottom two on my original bellhousing arent either because it takes bolts there instead of the studs.

I didn't see where you had mentioned this in any of your posts. The Id of the new bell fits the lip of the ZF perfectly so atleast that works.

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C comp2Member
Excellent Brook. I haven't had the ZF up to mine yet. I will go look here in a minute. Does it look like new holes can be drilled and tapped?

Assuming mine is the same (and I would assume it is) I will call my engine builder to see if he can get quick time to do it right.

You are getting to another puzzle I have been thinking about. After market parts are notoriously bad. I know we have had tremendous trouble with ALL the cam manufacturers not getting the cams lift to match the profile (that's another story).

The most critical part of these bell housings is input shaft alignment. On a more traditional application one would dial it in on the calibrated hole. Any ideas of how to calibrate this with these bell housings?

Gary
pittcrewpittcrewOwner etc. of 3785
As long as the ring is not removed, the input shaft alignment should remain correct. If Quicktime can not help me, then I was going to orient the bellhousing "right side up" and level it to the zf. Then I was going to transfer punch where the holes need to be correctly located and drill and tap them on a mill. Since the bellhousing locates on the lip of the zf and not simply flush to it, I believe rotating it will not affect input shaft alignment. I will contact Quicktime Monday and let you know what they say.
I knew there would be days like this..... Confused
pittcrewpittcrewOwner etc. of 3785
Additionaly, either redrilling the holes or rotating the mouting ring, would mean the cutouts in the bellhousing would not align with the new hole location. I don't consider this to be a problem unless you're trying to access nuts at these mounting locations. I am going to stud my bellhousing like my original, so I won't need that access. Just another point to think about.
Wow, cam problems too huh? What did you get us into? party
C comp2Member
LOL, cams, not on this engine. Next time you get a cam from comp or crane mic it!!! You might be suprised how off they are and with problems such as dips after the base circle before the lift which is good for a bounce. All within what they call "Acceptable tolerances".

Just general problem of after market parts in general.

We'll get them to make it right; if not for us then the next ones. I don't mine drilling and tapping knew holes; especially since before locating either of the 2 bell housings I was planning on making one from scratch!
pittcrewpittcrewOwner etc. of 3785
Gary,
I just got off the phone with Ross McCombs from Quicktime. We had been playing phone tag for a few days.Really nice guy.

I explained the problem I was having using the 8012 in a Pantera.
He had no Idea that there was another car that would use a different orientation.That is why the web site doesn't list a application as he thought there was only one application. I mentioned that Tim Meyer had bought one for a Pantera application also and he might hear from him. He seemed to recognize Tims name.

I guess there is a racing company that deals with GT40's(real and otherwise) and they are the ones that had designed the bellhousing for Quicktime. Ross said that company buys 100-200 bells a year for that application.

He said they did not have anything for my application(obvious since he didn't know the P car used one) but that he would look into having the exisiting inventory and future production drilled with both patterns. That way they can accomodate both applications. I asked him to make a note on their web site so people would know.

I told him I thought P car owners were using their small block bells because they are the only ones I know of that are SFI certified.Doesn't the racing sanctioning bodies require that? I know they do for Drag racing. Apparently no other P car owners have used the bell because this is the first he heard about a problem.

Ross said they would do the dual pattern on all their future ZF applications.
He said it was a simple change in the computor.

I told him that I was going to have mine drilled and he mentioned that I needed to be cautious about drill breakage. As he explained it to me the bolt pattern is drilled after welding and the notches by the holes are for a relief so the drill doesn't follow the bell and break as it goes through the hole. He said the bits they use are $100 ea and he didn't want to break them. He said the bell is formed at 180,000 psi and is much stronger than the mounting ring. He suggested starting the hole with at drill and finishing it with a end mill so it wouldn't have the wondering problem.

I talked to him about the flywheel and he said they list the 184 tooth because on a FE and a 460 that is the smallest you can go before the starter hits the block.
He said, (Just like you found out) that I could run a 176 tooth because there was room to move the starter if needed.He said the block is the deciding factor on the flywheel and maybe I could even go smaller that 176 if there is room but he didn't know for sure. He said their small block bells are designed for a 157 tooth flywheel.

Now you know what I know about it. Sorry this post is so wordy but I wanted you to have all the info he gave me.
C comp2Member
Brook...BRAVO on the leg work!!!! I talked about it with Tim a little before I left for flight training. I have not been able to follow up as I will be consumed for the next week and a half.

The information you gave is excelent! Thank you for the info on drilling!

We get breaks durring the day so I do get a chance to check the emails ocasionally. Off to do laundry!

Gary
cybomancybomanMember
quote:
Originally posted by Pittcrew:
Ross said they would do the dual pattern on all their future ZF applications.
He said it was a simple change in the computor.


Since your bellhousing is unused, could you suggest swapping yours for a new one already drilled with the dual pattern? It would save you some time and aggrevation and insure it was done correctly.

Michael
pittcrewpittcrewOwner etc. of 3785
Michael,
While Ross said the change in the computor was a simple fix he didn't know when he would be able to incorporate it into the existing inventory and production.

He also said that he would have to figure out something for the relief notches in the bell.
Dual bolt patterns would double the amount of notches required for relief when drilling.
He wasnt sure how to address that.He also stated that the existing inventory does not have the notches and that might be a problem.
I guess the CNC machines drill and tap holes super fast which is why the breakage consideration.

I am taking my bellhousing to a good machine shop that will drill it. The operation will be done on a milling machine by hand so I feel I won't have a drill breakage problem. Locating the holes will be no problem.

Doing it this way I will have my bellhousing done by Monday and can move on to other aspects of the swap. No additional shipping time/cost and no waiting for Quick Time to get set up on their end.

As Gary had stated, getting the changes made is for people that want to do the swap or update to a SFI scattershield type bellhousing in the future.

I also made sure to point out that the Pantera runs the Transaxle right side up, its the GT40 guys that are upside down. Wink

Sorry to highjack your forum Gary, you can have it back now. Smiler
pittcrewpittcrewOwner etc. of 3785
Bellhousing done with both patterns.
Drilled fine no problems at all.With all of the set up it took about 2 1/2 hours.
The holes catch the edge of the weld so we just went slow when breaking through. Tapped no problem. I tapped it to 3/8NC like the existing holes. My original bellhousing is 10mm-1.50.

Mounts to my ZF perfectly.

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pittcrewpittcrewOwner etc. of 3785
I haven't chosen a clutch yet.
I hung out at the Turbomustangs forum for a while when I was doing research on a turbo project. This was a few years ago.

A lot of the guys were complaining about driving through their Centerforce clutches when the boost came on early.
As a design characteristic, diaphram clutches need RPM to apply peak pressure. This is bad in a engine that develops a ton of low end torque like a small turbo application. By small I mean quick spooling.
The good side to the design is low pedal effort
.
The good side to a Long or Borg and Beck style is immediate high application pressure,which makes them good for drag racing, but the down side of high effort required to apply them.

Most of the high power guys on the turbomustangs forum went with this brand and were very happy.These appear to be diaphram clutches also but they work. I was going to talk to them when I got to that point.

http://www.specclutch.com/

IIRC didn't the Pantera require a pressure plate modification to clear the ZF bellhousing?
I don't think that will be a problem with the QT bell.

If you contact Spec let me know what they say.
C comp2Member
The entire outside edge and the inside hole ahs all been welded up and smoothed. It is amazing how time consuming this is. The hood is hinged and now I am working on inner structure which is going well. I wasn't sure I would get this far with it. This is my first large aluminum from scratch project and so far it is close enough I could simply polish it and it would be ok:

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C comp2Member
AHHHH... The hood is largely done! Ok, I could tweak a few things but I'll do that during paint prep. Air duct is done and I think worked out quite well. Rad mounts pretty much done. I had to re-enforce the tabs on the side of the Fluidine but They are good!

Next step suspension. Working toward making close measurements of the suspension so I can make changes to both a-arms and steering raq (power steering). In order t do so I built a jig which mounts to the car. This has allowed me to make very close measurements of the suspension:





C comp2Member
Well.......I am playing a bit here......

I wanted to feed data from the engine back to the computer to data log and tune....and play. It's what we do as a hobby right.

I have USB analog readers which I am working to read the following data from a variety of chips:

8-EGT's
4-O2 sensors
Manifold Press
Throttle Position
RPM
Timing Advance
Intake air temp
Water Temp
Oil Temp
Fuel Pressure

The program I am writing will display and data log values.

It originated from wanting to display EGT and O2 since I am pulling off the CHI single intake and going to the 4-Webbers.

The initial crcuits are cumbersome but I will likelly get a circuit board etched in the future and put it in a portable unit I can take in the car.

Some of the information is also working into self contained units which can be stand alone sch as RPM, Advance, etc which could be displayed on a box as the car is driven.

Not sure where it is all going. Playing as much as anything. Pretty cool to see gauges change on the laptop as values change though.
C comp2Member
POWER STEERING RAQ

Used the mock up to make precise suspension measurements. Put all the dimensions in susp calc to come up with some target numbers. The pivot joints on the Power steering raq were actually better for bump steer and Ackerman then the stock raq. It actually fixed a lot of issues.

Built the beginnings of a raq mount and have the raq bolted in place. I need to re assemble the rest of the suspension and check the alignment through travel and turning to see if I indeed have the numbers I came up in the program. If not I will move the raq till I hit the sweet spot. The raq mount will double as a chassis stiffener.
C comp2Member
Worked with the Power Steering Raq today and got it mostly placed (good enough to move on). As it is located it has 1/16 toe out in 2" bump and 3/16" toe out in 2" droop. I can get it closer but it will require either raq or upright modification which I don't need to do now.

The raq mount will double as a frame stiffener and is next.
C comp2Member
I have been working on the circuit to display timing and timing advance. Anyone ever check advance on cylinders other then #1? I think I will make it to where timing can be checked on all cylinders for uniformity.

I may also make a simple box for cars which can display timing, advance and O2 in the cockpit which can be easily used on any car.
pittcrewpittcrewOwner etc. of 3785
Good work Gary
Nice to see 1905 getting the attention it deserves.Big Grin

I have checked individual timing on a friends Snap on scope. We moved the pickup from one cylinder to another. I was also interesting to see the spark profile differences from one cylinder to another.

On my Duraspark I will have to tweak tangs on the pick up to adjust it.

MSD ( I think) makes a dist that you can adjust each cylinder independantly up to 6 degrees. I cant remember the Engine applications they make it for. It was designed for the NASCAR industry.

I read about it in Circle Track Magazine.
If I find the link I will post it.
C comp2Member
Not that anyone cares but I am still plunging away at the computer interface to the car. I have a few more things working. Throttle position, Manifold pressure, RPM is almost there. The more I do the more there is to do to it. Ran it some again tonight trying to see where I need to go with it next. Getting everything to communicate correctly in a timely fashion is tricky. Got the wide band oxygen controllers in today.

The aluminum tubing to exit the exhaust did not work out so well. Blew them apart at idle.






pittcrewpittcrewOwner etc. of 3785
quote:
Originally posted by comp2:
Brooke how uniform was the spark when your friend did his scope?


The timing was only +- 1/2 degree. This was checked on a balancer that was marked 360 degrees.
This was with a Mallory Unilite in a 428FE
What I did find however, were some new spark wires that were not working quite right.
I had two cylinders that did not scope the same.
I changed wires and it fixed it.
The engine did not have a miss or any running issues with the bad wires. If we hadn't scoped it I would not have found the problem.

Here is the link to the article I previously mentioned.
Good stuff.

http://www.circletrack.com/techarticles/139_0310_cylind...ng_tuning/index.html
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