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I'm just throwing the pics up here for now. I just pulled the car out of storage (15 years in a climate controlled stall) The car needs a lot of work, interior is in bad shape, engine was blown by nitrous (I don't know how extensive yet)

The Exterior has a few small dents which will easilly be popped out, I've used the dentwizard tech at my local mercedes dealership on a few other cars. It seems to be a solid car but needs extensive TLC.

I will entertain any serious offers before I start any work on it.

Pics of Pantera

I also have a GT5 complete body kit for sale

Pics of body kit

Any questions or serious offers can be directed to me at dfdigital@gmail.com

Thanks

Dave
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LOL.... you mean the rack on the rear deck??? It's a "speed option" I swear!!!!

Anyways I'm not sure how much we can get for it right now... the owners, who purchased it new, want 30k for it.

There are a few problems with it:

It was stored in a climate controlled warehouse for the last 15 years.... no mice or rodent damage but the interior deteriorated badly.

The engine is locked up- The engine was built up to take nitrous but he got a little too happy with it..... I have yet to check it out to see exactly what the damage is. I will update as soon as we have time to check it out.

Rust- I know panteras have the tendancy to rust out as soon as they came from the factory. This one appears to have very little. However I am going to pull the interior and do a complete inspection.

As I have time to go through the car I will update the pics on the links above and add more detail to this post.

Any serious offers will be considered.
How you get roped into selling it? Where is the car located at?
quote:
Originally posted by dfdigital:
I'm just throwing the pics up here for now. I just pulled the car out of storage (15 years in a climate controlled stall) The car needs a lot of work, interior is in bad shape, engine was blown by nitrous (I don't know how extensive yet)

The Exterior has a few small dents which will easilly be popped out, I've used the dentwizard tech at my local mercedes dealership on a few other cars. It seems to be a solid car but needs extensive TLC.

I will entertain any serious offers before I start any work on it.

Pics of Pantera

I also have a GT5 complete body kit for sale

Pics of body kit

Any questions or serious offers can be directed to me at dfdigital@gmail.com

Thanks

Dave
Thank you for all the replys I have gotton from this post.

I really don't mean to sound anal, I really don't. But this guy just really pushed me

Please don't be this guy- I think he's also trying to trade his Corvette for a pantera

(I'm leaving names and e-mail addresses out of this)

First E-mail sent:

how much are you looking to get out of this car money wise, i am a cash buyer
ready to buy, i assume it does not run and needs full attention to everything
as you describe, is the nitrous kit still on this car? is the car mostly stock?
during storage did mice get in and eat any of the interior or wire harness?
please let me know, also where are you located? i am in connecticut, thanks

I replied:

We're looking at getting about 35k for it- reason being? it's actually a pretty
solid investment we can fix it up and sell it for 60k or sell it outright for 35.
If your interested I'll send you more pics and info after this weekend

To which he replied:

35k sorry i was thinking more like 10k seeing that it needs alot of work, good
luck with the sale.

So I replied: (the e-bay car was going for 12k at the time, it finally sold for $23,000)

Check out how much this dismantled one is going for:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Other-Makes-DeTomaso-Pan...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I know with time someone will realize that they can buy this car at 35k,
restore and get 60ish. This car is all original, single owner, has had some
serious engine work performed on it....

He replied back:

yes i saw that one but i dont think they will get much more than it is
already up two, for 35k you can buy a really nice one that needs little
to near no work at all, and 60k for a restored pantera is also not
realistic unless its got alot of up to date goodies and go fast parts
and is a show winning car, but a stock restored p car will never bring 60k,
but good luck selling and i hope it gets restored i hate to see a pantera go to waste..

My final reply:

I know my pantera was out of your price range but I've done some research for you and found this one. Check out the Buy it now price

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIte...6&fromMakeTrack=true

Also, here's the one I showed you earlier, it went for 22,500

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIte...TRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Have a great one,

DFDIGITAL
quote:
Originally posted by JD21476:
Unfortunately, I have to agree with the buyer, I think $35k for your car is way over priced. It is true that you can get a fairly nice driver for that price and you car has problems that you are not even sure of. I woudl haev to say it is worth in the $15k-20 range.


I agree 35,000.00 would be more than I would be willing to pay for a non running car that needs full restoration. I'm thinking that your car would be worth 15,000.00 to 25,000.00 in it's currenty condition P.I.M. has a Orange running L model for 37,000.00 http://www.pim.net/120105orange.html
I have contacted the seller and was waiting patiently to see the car when it was completed. I was under the inpression this car runs and the price was between 25 - 30. If I do go to see the car I would suspect it runs after waiting patiently. Other wise sell it now and stop all the work. A PANTERA is NOT a house. You cant fix it cosmetically and expect it to bring in top dollar. These cars are 33 years old and most were not daily drivers but garage or driveway queens. They are rusty and not running.

Save your money and put it up for sale on ebay set your reserve and let the chipps fall where they may.

Ron
John,

I got a response from DFDigital on the body kit about a week ago, he quoted me $5K. Eeker

I thought maybe he got a sticky key on the zero Smiler so wrote back and let him know they are $999 without the wing from the vendors, plus maybe another $500 for the wing...so far no response

Julian
Sorry about the response delay, I just got back from vacation with my wife in the keys.

Anyways, Being a fellow car enthusiast, I thought offering the car up to the Pantera community first would be a great idea. It would go to someone who would truly appreciate it, give it the TLC it needs and deserves and love to see it in their garage every morning. I can totally appreciate this type of enthusiast I have been very fortunate at the early age of 29 to have driven and owned various cars that most people only read about or see pictures of in magazines, yet alone to see one in person.

Unfortunately I have received a very negative response from your community. I have received e-mails that are hateful, posts from people who don’t want to wait for a response. Someone offered me 10k for it and told me that’s the best offer I’ll ever get….. meanwhile a Pantera that is totally dismantled without an engine sells for 24k on E-bay. Other cars from this era---- ex. Camaros, Trans-am’s and mustangs in poor shape are selling in the 30-50k range.

Read this
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6081129/

While you guys are fighting the price of your cars down past that of a Porsche 914 other cars are commanding prices that no reasonable person could afford.

At this point in time I am no longer checking posts on this forum. Please feel free to fight amongst yourselves

Dave
Last edited {1}
The Forum seems to be split between owners who want the value to go up and those who want it to go down.
It's more important what the buyers are willing to pay then what an owner is willing to sell at.
Why anyone wants to talk thier car down is beyond me?
I suppose that there is an equation in there somewhere, Dan where are ya, and I suspect that neither are the controlling factors.
Damn it!! This guy is right. I think we treated him like shit. All he did was offer his car for sale and people were all over his ass. I mentioned I might sell my car and I get hatefull emails just like what he is talking about. Where is everybodies manners? If you don't want to pay what a buyer is asking , don't be rude about it. Be respectfull and decline. If he asks, then maybe tell him that in YOUR opinion you think he might be high and back you contention up with facts.
So now we have a guy who will tell all the automotive world just how mean and nasty Pantera owners are.
You know what?? This guy is right. I have some stuff I am going to sell, but I am not even going to mention it here. You guys want to buy it, you will just have to bid on ebay like everybody else. I am tired of the hate mail thing, and yeah, you know who you are and I don't give a rat's ass who knows. Damn it, I may be a prick, but I am not rude about it.
I am pissed, and dissapointed. This doesn't speak well for the Pantera community.
DT,

Here! Here! Nicely said. I, too, don't understand the inferiority complex that afflicts a lot of Pantera owners. Not only do we fight to keep the price down with a smug attitude that we know better as insiders; we even downplay the cars themselves whenever we can. Panteras are good, reliable cars when properly maintained. Properly maintained cars are good buys for new owners.

I believe that part of the problem why owners don't keep them well maintained is because they don't perceive that they add to the value when they spend money on the cars. That's why we need higher prices!

As a result, there are a lot of doggy Panteras out there. It's a shame.

Jeff
6559
HH Detom. I also like to compare a good colector car to modern cars sold. If you buy a snazy new car for $45K which is pretty normal, why would an old car with a lot more charm and colectability be $10k. Most collectable cars often mirror the new car market to some degree.

Yea $30K for a new car with no bells and whistles is too much what it cost is what it cost.

Gary
Thank you gentlemen. Your agreement on this issue is encouraging. I have never owned an automobile that was of better quality than my Pantera. I have owned a lot of differant cars too. Bet everytime I close the door on my car and hear that solid sounding thunk. Everytime I see how weel the seams line up, I realize I am driving the highest quality automobile I will ever own. I realize that perhaps a Bently or Porsche would have even better quality feel, but that is fantasy. I own a Pantera, and it is a very fine automobile. But having said that, it gives me no right to act like a BMW owner. We all know what kind of reputation they have. The Pantera does not need that kind of stigma attached to it.
I view many cars built before the mid 70's collectable. Cars then and before were of a caliber never to be seen again. To see this, look at BJ auctions, and cars shows. Watching a car show over the weekend having old 57 wagons of ALL types becoming collected and valued. Many cars at the auction not particularly valuable becoming very valuable in restored condition.

Cars after the mid 70's became what I call re-peats. All with less substance. Cars of today are tools. Use them, wear them out crush them, melt them down start over. Cars of the first 75 years were as much about us as a society, our development of technology, and our movement from the horse and buggy age into the modern age. These cars were meaningful albiet a 73 Pantera or a Ford Edsil. No new cars; even cars that make you go wow have any meaning like the old cars.

Gary
Yeah Gary, houses are the same way. If you start looking at the build detail and quality of a house built turn of century, and compare the same thing on a house built last turn of cetury, you will say to yourself, "OMG, todays stuff is terrible in comparison." Yeah the old house doesn't have the fancy new stuff in it, but it was sure built well using very good materials. So there are some new cars that are technical marvels, but it is hard to find one that is built the way the old cars were. Heck, the modle A could top 100 MPH even back then.
My apology for my post if it sounded a bit tough but.

The car was listed and I was in the market for a car and was in touch with one of the owners friends and sceduled to go to look at the car, but this never happened.

I was seriuos about the car. I thank them for the slow moving pace because I found some thing that was exactly what I was looking for. So maybe my impatience paid off.

The issue I think is in my opinion.
1. The Pantera is an under valued car which deserves a higher value. Do we all agree with that? Its a good car. All 1971 , 3, 4 cars are rusted.
2. The prices in perfect shape is around 60k +/-.
3. The value of a car ? I refer to the stripped rusted one on ebay to the one I bought on ebay. Some people ask reasonable prices and others think a rusted piece is worth 10 - 20k.
4. It all depends on what the buyer is willing to spend and their budget ?
5. All Pantera owners, I think want their car to rise in price. All sellers want the most for their car. The cars left on ebay or anywhere for sale are the cars that dont sell becuase the price is to high for the condition of the car ??

I didnt mean to say anything offensive with my post on the site. If I did I present my apology.

Ron
Yea but it's more then that. Look at the progression here:

http://www.sjvls.org/photoheritage/porterville/pva0006a.jpg
(my dad has a couple of these by the way):
http://www.sjvls.org/photoheritage/porterville/pva0004a.jpg
http://history.acusd.edu/gen/USPics/ford/modelT.jpg
http://www.carestoration.com/images/51chevy-lg.jpg
http://atecs.freeweb.hu/1971Chevy/Small/71Chevy0607.jpg

What did that say about our society, our development as a society, and everything involved. It would take books. What does a 1999 Chevy say Vs a 2005 Chevy. Not much other then cars have become tools we use and pitch. Not even remotly similar to what cars meant back then.

Gary
Well Ron it wasn't really anything to do with the price, it was more how the guys said people were piling on and sending him nasty grams through the email. Now this guy thinks Pantera owners are pricks or physcos or whatever. Now maybe he is being a little over sensitive, but I think sometimes we do act a little brash. I know I do. But we gotta remember some folks is here for the first time, checking us out, seeing what kind of folks we are. Now you and I know each other well enough we can joke around and slam each other and we are both ok about it. But when newbies come in here they don't know us from shinola. They may even be a little scared or shy at first. We gotta be on our best behavior for newbies. Even if they are deluded as all get out about what their car is worth, we got to be polite while we tell them just how full of crap they may be. Smiler
That is one reason I am considering getting out of the Pantera game. As long as something is an enjoyable hobby, you spend for the entertainment value. Guys have always been able to change around their Panteras to whatever way they wanted them. But some day soon it will become "nope I better not, it will ruin my resale value" then the fun, at least for me, begins to fade. Because sooner or later we are going to start getting the "purists" running around saying how it doesn't have the right part number this or that. Thank God the factory records are so crappy. It will be the only thing saving us from, "Your stereo knob is the wrong color".
Now as far as value, people who know zero about Panteras seem to assume it is a multi hundred thousand dollar car. They get a look of amazement and disbelief when I tell them what they are going for. They do continue to look modern. They resemble other cars that always where much more expensive and Panteras are almost as rare as those other cars are. So anymore, I would almost perfer to sell my car to someone who knows nothing about Panteras, than to someone who does. Because they may have bought their years ago and think that it should sell for about what they paid for it years ago.
Anyway, what I am making the fuss over, is someday, either ourselves, or surviveing family members will be in the situation where they are trying to sell our Panteras. I think we should treat people selling their cars, the way we would want to be treated if we were in the same position. Now I am by no means a saint. When Ron said he had a 427 SOHC engine I was all over him like stink on manure. He musta thought I was a little unbalanced. And buying and selling stuff is a real emotionaly charged issue, especialy and ego car like what we won. Hell I admitt it. My entire sense of self worth is wrapped up in this car. I am a leo after all. Without the car I will be just another dickhead. So it is tuff even thinking about giving up my identity. And man when you see one you want, you want it real bad. So it is a volitile situation. But so is buying and selling houses. But I don't deal with that well either.
So I have decided. When I am ready, I am going to aske Dave to sell it for me. Wink
Hello Gentlemen, I am a newbie and i have read almost everything about panteras all the pro's and con's. my friend has a 1972 pantera and it is nice. I love cars and most of the cars i owned have been germans(porsche). now i am interest in buying a pantera, but I agree with you guys a car is worth what a buyer is willing to pay and what the seller is willing to accept. but one issue that bothers me is why should I be willing to pay between 30 to 40K in a car that might need an extra 30k to have it up to date? don't get me wrong i've seen panteras that have all the updates and are in extremely nice condition for $69,000 with less than 40000 miles and still it is a little high when i can go get a brand new corvett z06 for $70,000. just my opinion, i hope i dont offend anyone.
quote:
Originally posted by SPEED:
i hope i dont offend anyone.


Not a chance!

I don't think a $40K Pantera is going to need anything if much at all. A $60-70K Pantera is usually "Over the top" in one way or another. Yes the Vettes are very good cars but no one even bats an eye at them. They are just so comon. A Pantera just has serious PIZZAZ!
Gary
In spite of the fact that there is new interest in Pantera's, I really don't think we anywhere near the point where people will be afraid to mod their cars because it will affect the value. Most of us that are active owners really delight in that aspect. And I'd gues most of the new owners do as well.

On another point, it seems to me that the regulars on the PIBB are the only ones who do any posting. Occasionally, someone new will chime in, but for the most part, it's just us. (You know who you are.) I agree with DT that we s/b mindful of that as post.

Jeff (hot rodder at heart)

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I totally agree with you when it comes to $40k a Pantera that might need some little work or much at all. and yes $60-70 are over the top i guess getting 500+HP. but i am having a hard time finding a pantera that is aound $40k that does it "is going to neeed anything is much at all" most of those cars need full restoration or a new suspension. and i gree vetts ae very common that is why i would like a pantera.
quote:
Originally posted by SPEED:
Hello Gentlemen, I am a newbie and i have read almost everything about panteras all the pro's and con's. my friend has a 1972 pantera and it is nice. I love cars and most of the cars i owned have been germans(porsche). now i am interest in buying a pantera, but I agree with you guys a car is worth what a buyer is willing to pay and what the seller is willing to accept. but one issue that bothers me is why should I be willing to pay between 30 to 40K in a car that might need an extra 30k to have it up to date? don't get me wrong i've seen panteras that have all the updates and are in extremely nice condition for $69,000 with less than 40000 miles and still it is a little high when i can go get a brand new corvett z06 for $70,000. just my opinion, i hope i dont offend anyone.

Hey speed, welcome to the forum. I don't think you are going to upset any of the old timers with what you said. It be cool. BTW, have you actualy tried to order a new Z06? I am just kind of curious, because I know when the Ford GT came out you were supposed to be able to get them for 140K, but no one did. Damn dealers jacked up the asking price to over 200K.
I agree, the Pantera is not for everyone. It was a dream car back in the day though. I have always wanted a powerfull mid engine exotic. Corvettes have the engine in the wrong place for me. Yeah you can almost get a Porsche 911 for that price and they are some nice cars, no doubt. If you want a mid engine Vette, you can kinda get one of those too. They are called a Mosler MT900 and they will start selling them here pretty soon. But you are going to part with two hundred grand again. You can get a viper, but then again the engine is in the wrong place. The Saleen is a way cool car. But they start at over 400K and go up from there. And of course you have lambos and ferraris and such, but that is rich man territory, even if you can swing the entry fee, they will break you to keep them going.
I think why the Pantera is worth it is that they were the Ford GT of the seventies. If you want to buy a car you don't have to work on every now and then, probably best to stay away from the Pantera, even if it has been redone. But I would say the same thing if you were hankering for a Shelby Cobra. Old cars are old cars no matter how much you do to them. So yeah you can put brand new brakes, and seats and this and taht, but somewhere on the car, there are still some thirty year old something or other lurking around. Even if it is just a screw or bolt. So the Pantera is a unique car in a way. Exotic Italian body, American muscle car engine, and a German transmission. It is kind of like a blend of the best of the world at the time. And it is subjective. Definetly not for everybody.
Thank you DeTom, i agree with you a Pantera is not for everyone and no i have not order a vette yet, but i am still debating. i know a pantera is an old car and may need work once in a while and i do not mind that. but it seems that all of the sudden panteras have gone throught the roof when it comes to price. 4$40k gets you just a ok pantera that still needs restoration well that is at least in couthern california
Speed-
The new Corvette is a fantastic car. No doubt about that. But think about this.., in a few years when the new car smell is gone, and the new-er Corvettes are being marketed, you'll tire of it quickly. Worse yet, that "new" car will have depreciated to about half what you originally paid for it.

But here's the worse part!..everytime you see a Badd-Ass Pantera creating a storm on the boulevard, you'll kick yourself for not buying a Pantera (TODAY) when prices are still reasonable.

Kevin

p.s. here's another tidbit from this humble Pantera owner. Original cars that are concours correct and are not modified = money pit. Buy the best car in whatever flavor (original look, widebody flared, etc. etc.) that you can afford. You'll save loads of $$$ in the long run. Don't ask me how I know this...
Yeah we have been talking about that a lot lately. No one can say for sure why it is happening and there is endless speculation, but it is happening. I know recently there was a Pantera that had gone for 30K range on Barret Jackson a couple years ago, and then the guy sold it just now on ebay for over 40k without having done a thing with it. Who knows?? Maybe it is inflation or whatever. But I do know if you are real patient, you can get what you want, but you have to work really hard at it. There are guys here that have been looking for what they want for over a year. But deals do come up, and us Pantera guys are getting pretty old. Maybe you can get a really sweet deal at an estate sale. Big Grin
In the meantime, the very best advice I can give you is to learn more about the cars. There is a really good site called the Panteraplace that tells you what to look for in a car. There is a newsletter that goes out every morning called detomaso info page at real big dot com, or something like that. I read that every morning. I have learned more about the cars in the last year than in the previous decade in which I have owned my car. That way while you are looking, you can get more of a feel if you would really be comfortable with the car. Also give your local Chevy dealer a call and tell him you want to buy a brand spanking new Z06. I think I read where their orders are backed up because of a wheel supplier problem. I am betting the dealers are trying to get 100K for them. But from what I have read, they are worth every penny. They are truly supercar quality now.
Thank you DeTom, i am willing to wait and hopefully one you "oldtimers" lol will be willing to sell me your pantera. i know you guys have put lots of work in your panteras and that is what want. someone that might want to pass it on. i know it must be extremely tought to let go something that you have enjoyed for decades. but, i will wait
quote:
Originally posted by SPEED:
Thank you Kevin, actually, that is what ia m looking for. a pantera that has been updated not over the top but something that does not need major work. i am still looking, but like i said before here in Southern california i have not seen something like that.


Like Detom said, be patient, and learn from guys on this board who aren't shy about telling you their "wish I had done it this way" story.

Here's a very recent example of a car you missed. These show up every once in a while but not that often. The Pantera is a low production vehicle (not rare) so you won't see too many of them for sale at one time.

http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2250045562/m/3230026314

Good Luck,
Kevin
Best way to find a good Pantera for mini $, Is have money in hand, patience and lots of searching. When you see a deal and know it's a deal jump. Otherwise just sit back. Lot of Pantera's sold through less popular locations some times never seen by the "groups". Search many obscure sites and places. One will eventually show up.
quote:
Originally posted by jeff6559:
quote:
Originally posted by DeTom:
Jeff did you do those flames yourself or are they a decal?


Decals!!! Yuk!!! Down here your flames are your badge of honor. Mine were done the grandaddy of freehand flame masters, Mr. James Crawford. Having his flames added $1000 to the car in the Hot Rod crowd. %^))

Jeff
6559

Sorry Jeff, I didn't know where you are from. You live in the Southland??
Finchster, where are you when we need you buddy! Larry looked long and hard and he found a beauty at a fair price cause he had done his homework.

I might suggest joining POCA and attending local meetings. I can't tell where you are located, but there are chapters all over.
http://www.panteraclub.com/
That way you can be around the cars and the owners and get a better feeling rather than listen to us pontificate on the PI BB. If you want to get more written pontification, I'd also join the POCA email forum. http://realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
Besides lots of good advice and camraderie, they also have a searchable database of past topics.

Besides the Italian body, American iron and German ZF limited slip tranny, don't forget the English. Lucas did the electrics! And the suspension is by Dallara, one the more famous designers of the time. That's why the Pantera has held up so well as evidenced by its success in open road racing. Ask the Vette guys about that. Imagine losing to a 40 year old car!
I think were getting off the point with this guy. The car that Kevin posted from Michigan was in good woking order with many extras and went for $38K. This guy got upset because some of us mentioned that $35K for a car that does not even run is probably overpriced based on the current market prices.
I just think he just got pissed off because he did not like to hear that.
I don't think many on this bulletin board would pay him $35K for that car.
Tom
New & Slow that was my point.

I said why do all the work to sell it... we all know they are a money pit .. point being after all the work he would be trying to recoup the money invested. That never happens.

I thought listing it and selling it was his best way out. The fun to me is fixing them up slowly and it would give someone a chance to get in at an affordable level.

Ron
Well here is what he said about us...

"Unfortunately I have received a very negative response from your community. I have received e-mails that are hateful, posts from people who don’t want to wait for a response. Someone offered me 10k for it and told me that’s the best offer I’ll ever get….. meanwhile a Pantera that is totally dismantled without an engine sells for 24k on E-bay. Other cars from this era---- ex. Camaros, Trans-am’s and mustangs in poor shape are selling in the 30-50k range."

Now weather what he said about value being right or wrong isn't the point. He was jsut a youngster and we were awful hard on the bever ward. Now he is going to think Pantera guys are cratchety old farts.
quote:
Originally posted by jeff6559:
quote:
Originally posted by DeTom:
Now he is going to think Pantera guys are cratchety old farts.


Did you mean me?


Jeff you didn't do anything, neither did I. In fact I think most of it probably went down in email that we were not privy to. But you and I got lumped in with the guys who were harrasing him because, after all, we are Pantera owners, even though we didn't do nothing. It is a black eye on everyone who identifies themselves as Pantera guy. Now this guy is gonna go back to wherever he hangs out and say to them "You know the differance between a porcuopine and a Pantera? Nope, Well with a Porcupine the pricks or onthe outside." Then his corvette buddies, or austin martin buddies, or corrola buddies, whatever, are gonna laugh their asses off and assume all Pantera guys are pricks.
Detom, I think he woill get that on any board or group (human nature). I think it's better here then many places; certainly better then a few places/Marques I can think of (without naming them, like Ferrari, I didn't say that). I can see the guy on a Ferrari board "Mister, if you can't aford to hire a mechanic, or to purchase a $100k car you have no business mingling with us!"

I didn't say that did I.
No matter how much money I manage to accumulate, even if I became the richest man in the world, I would never, ever join a ferrai club or associate with those people. I would maybe buy up every new ferrari and set them on fire on tv maybe. BUt ever since a salesman was a snotty little shit to me one time, I knew right then and there, Ferrai people are conceited dickheads.
Detom,

We are all adults here .... sometimes the truth hurts ... people tell us the truth all day long .. life is not a bowl of cherries ... if we hurt his feelings because he wants to get 35k for a car ( and I read the posts ) " interior deteriorated badly "... " The engine is locked up" .." We're looking at getting about 35k " ..." Unfortunately I have received a very negative response from your community."

We are not pricks by no means, he just wants a lot of money for a car worth what our other Pantera memebers offered him .. maybe 10 -20k MAYBE !
I've been following this post with enthusiasm....and some restraint, not wanting to add fuel to the fire, but...

I think the conversation thus far attests to the core type of guys that hang out here.... a great bunch. You are all willing to be 'self critical', that is a true virtue in itself and I'm still not so sure anyone has anything to be apologetic about.

A new user came out of nowhere and posted a car and GT5 kit for sale, as a P car owner one would think he would have some awareness of the market and have done some research. He didn't like what he heard in terms of offers, too exception and responded in kind with examples to justify his price. The 'polite' route is a two way street; he could as easily responded thanks for your offer, but its way below what I can accept…..good luck on your search...end of conversation. Secondly; the 'polite' route would have a note that said 'I'm out of town for while; do not expect a response until...
Most honest sellers just get it out in the open up front and post a price with the ad. Inviting people to have to enquire, then leaving for vacation is asking for a mixed reaction.

In addition I may have been part of the 'disappointment' he experienced as I in response to the post I enquired as to the price of the GT5 kit. Two weeks later came a response of $5K, so I politely replied that a new kit could be had from the vendors with wing for around $1500, that is not 'dissing' the guy just pointing out simple fact....and for that I don't feel an apology is warranted or necessary.

As the board grows in membership, there will undoubtedly be more confrontation of this nature. I personally don't see it as confrontational just 'healthy discussion' and if everyone is afraid to speak their mind due to possible repercussions, the discussions and the board will ultimately lose a lot of the 'edge' that makes it so different and better than other boards.

I’ll stop there, just my 'two penneth'

Julian
Yeah now that you point it out he didn't seem to handle it real well either. I guess I was making too much alloance for him being a kid and all. This is his parents fault. Parents now a days just don't teach manners like they used to. Back in my day it was yes ma'am and yes sir. Please and thank you. And 29 is old enough he should know better even if his parents didn't raise him right.
Yeah Jules, you're right. F@#$ him if he can't have manners. But still, let's all try and be especially nice to newbies, hell who knows, maybe someday a hot babe may wonder in and we don't want to be scaring her off. Big Grin
DeTom,

Don't get me on the subject of parenthood; it’s not all the parents fault but partly the society of today. I'm a proud parent of a 12 yr old son (bonding road trip to POCA Vegas coming up Big Grin), now he's great and I love him to death, but man if I'd spoke to my parents like he does…. I wouldn't be here today.

Yeah, we'll try hard to attract them hot babes, (I hope my wife don't read this BB Wink) isn't that why you bought a P car in the first place, why else put up with all that unreliability eh?

Hey, I'm thinking if you're so keen on keepin' this BB 'nicey nicey' and politically correct you can't be saying 'hot babes', you just don't know the 'orientation' of everyone whom hangs out here. Big Grin Eeker
Good point Joules. You never know which way someones keyfob may swing. And the same thing that keeps our wives off of the board, probably keeps hot young memmbers of the female oriented persuasion dissinterested as well.
I hope I said that in a way that does not offend those who are attracted to, er, well, anything other.
Detom .... your great ! LOL

Joules well said ... thanks...I do remeber him asking 5k for the spoilers and thats when I shook my head.

Anyway, I will be the first to apologize if I'm out of line ... I guess its my NY enthuziazm ... but its always in the best interest of fun.

Parenthood ? sorry still single but I can say that if I did some of the things the apprentices do who work for me ? My Grand father and father would have thrown a wrench at me. Life today is very different both for the better and some times I feel for the worse.

Ron
It's easy for you and me to laugh, we have our cars, in fact you have two. But what about the guys here who are desperatly searching. We queered the deal for them. Now it is just one less Pantera that they will be able to look at. Yeah we don't care, we have ours, but we should think about those less fortunate than ourselves. At least that is what my mommy used to say when she was alive.
You know I don't believe half the prices I see on Ebay.
A guy in our club sold his car on ebay. Perfect driver type car maybe some of you remember it 72 Black Pantera. I think he sold it to cheap at $30,000.00

So when this guy talks about that rust bucket missing half the parts selling for $23,000 I don't really think it sold. I just think he is basing his selling price on auctions that have some kind of fake bidding going on.

Those guys looking for cars just be ready to buy they are out there. See this one its not for sale anymore but could of been purchased late last year for $29,000.00 I seen this car at the PI gathering and it was a nice driver.
http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/225004...730008683#2730008683
Last edited by markm
Detom, I was only joking and without getting into a long discussion all over again. If you remember it was way over priced, didnt run, needed interior that was eaten by animals, and probably rusted pretty bad ... they wanted 5k for a spoiler set up that could be purchased for less then half.

If you want a project car ... I have one for that price ... motor is complete. car is painted and I will even finish the rest of the resto of the engine compartment under carriage and suspension. Let me know I'll send you pictures.

Ron
PI has many nice cars .. they are on ebay .. and as someone quoted previuosly .. they can only account for 3000 + cars and 9000+ were made .... the balance were not all were crashed and destroyed. They are out there. email me and I will find you a Pantera. ronmarl@optonline.net

What condition are you looking for ?

If its good to great go to PI ... if its a project give me buzz.

Ron
A short while back someone else posted info about my Pantera, and when I joined the post and furnished a little more info, it spurred a lot of interest. Publically, let me thank all those who telelphoned and emailed me. As the work I was (and still am) having done to the car was not completed, I had the posting removed from the board. Soon I hope, my Pantera will be available for a new home. At 3:24pm EST last Wednesday, it woke up, and ran very well. It is my hope that within two weeks I will have it marketable. Thanks.
Wow, all I have to say is wow. This post was brought to my attention from a few guys who I sent over to this forum who were looking to buy a Pantera. There has been alot of interest lately in these cars from people who were interested in early model camaros and chevelles who can no longer afford to purchase them because they have have out priced themselves.

Some of you might remember me as I posted my 71 Pantera project car for a asking price of $22,000.I had something like 40 replies all asking for pictures. The truth being only 3 of 40 were willing to pay me the price. Unfortunately they were all over seas. The logistics of of reassembling the car and transporting the car to the docks for transport weren't realistic for me.I too received alot of slack about my asking price from certain people on this forum.Even to the point of harassment and I do mean harassment.Why?, so they could knock the sale of my car down to the point of a steal for themselves. In my mind my price wasn't a steal but a fair one.I had over $7000 in brand new parts alone. Not to mention hundreds of hours in stripping, treating and painting the entire undercarriage of the car.Some of you know what hours alone it takes in stripping the tar from your engine compartment never mind an entire car.I didn't include that in my asking price.Not all Panteras are rust buckets, mine wasn't. Truth, it was stripped down to bare metal for all to see. I know a few guys who have bought these so called $35,000 cars only to find out later they needed all new rocker panels and serious rear inner wheel housing reconstruction. Cha ching$$.There are owners who spend $3 for a slave rebuilding kit to rebuild a pitted slave cylinder and then there are guys who spend $100 for a stainless sleeved unit.There are many $35,000 cars for sale with the same old 30 year old brake fluid and rubber lines!Other guys spend $1600 for a whole updated system that actually stops the car.Truth, there are guys who spend money on their cars and there are ones who don't.The ones who do deserve top price.

Its true this is a sand box but you guys really have to see it from the outside the box.What happened in this post was an embarassment.Its an open forum that anyone should join and feel comfortable(edit)about posting cars or parts. If someone wants to post their car for sale they shouldn't be beat down or mobbed for their asking price.Especially by individuals who have no interest in buying the car in the first place.

They should simply be allowed to post with contact info with (no additional comments made to their posts).Correspondence should be done privately between seller and potential purchaser.

I also track a 911 SC and some of the guys from the club have recently inquired about my Pantera and one has an interest in buying one. After reading this post and listening to the guys opinions of who I just sent over here, I wouldn't dare send anyone else....

Flame away...

Respectfully, Dan
Last edited by danno
Dan, you are absolutely correct. And, that is the rational and intent behind my current activity on the Pantera I will be offering for sale. I do not want anyone to have to experience surprises, at least any that I am aware could have been prevented. However, all need to recognize the cars are old, and despite all best intentions, age is a factor. Good posting.
ZZ
quote:
There has been alot of interest lately in these cars from people who were interested in early model camaros and chevelles who can no longer afford to purchase them because they have have out priced themselves.


I have seen a couple Camero RS's go for under $20K in restored condition. I looked at one for sale real hard at a car show recently. Camero's non matching numbers that are drivers and not show cars are 10-15K.

To bring a Pantera up to $40-60K condition requires a lot of money and work; a lot more then $7k in parts. It is pretty comon for a guy with a $50-60k pantera to have close to $100k in it. He asked people's opinion and they gave it to him. It is hard to plop down $20-30K for a project car not really knowing if all the parts are there or what it needs. I bought my Pantera which is a good driver with a GT5 Hall body conversion (very well done) and conley leather interior for under $30k. I bought a PB Pantera project care COMPLETE for half of that!

The price has been going up as well as the quality of the cars. A $50-60K car will usually have new radiators, new engine in the 450+hp range, new rims, new tires, rigidity kits, $15K+ in paint and body work, new custom interiors, and on and on and on.

People have their opinions. I have to agree with most of what was said about the project car. A Camero in that condition wiould be less than a $10K car (unless a specific type comparable to an authentic GT5 Pantera). I think that comparison does not hold water.

I am not flaming, its just opinion!

Gary
Gary, I'm not talking about the run of the mill camaro or chevelles. I'm talking about the 69-70 454/425hp 396/375 and 302 Z/28's cars.

Try and place yourself not as a owner of a Pantera but someone on the outside thinking about coming into the ring as a future owner. Then read this post slowly and carefully.Tell me how this guy was treated by fellow Pantera owners?

Dan
Yeah but Gary you didn't see the emials he got. That is what gets you. What we say was what was on the board. I bet he got a lot of nasty grams. Tell you what, just to show you what this guy went through, make an add here on the board that you are gonna sell a Pantera or something, like an engine maybe. Then wait until you start getting the emails. After about the tenth email I promise you will see what I am talking about. Now I have had one guy who was real polite and he was real nice and all. But he was the exception rather than the rule.
I will step up to the plate .. I was looking to buy both your cars.

Danno .. you had a good deal but 20k for a complete disassembled car ? Look at my persepctive. I was thinking were the parts all there ? The only thing done was cleaning under neath and suspension and brakes. Motor, interior, A/C etc. There is a lot to do on a disassembled car. There were too many variables involved in inventorying the parts.

Zoom Zoom ... is the car ready yet ? 30k The motor was siezed with nitrous, interior have animials living in it and a variety of other work was going on. I was anxiuos to buy another car .. so I pushed you. My thought was sell it now in the condition it was in to me and I will do the work.

Ok so here is my point look at the picture.... this is the guage for 31k. 79 GTS EURO 99% original 24 k miles except for minor upgrades.

For the record I pushed you guys a little because I had cash looking to buy a car for a fair price ... I found what I thought was fair. If your not looking to really sell the car ? Why post it. Do you think I had problems selling my 69 Shelby, 68 427 Corvette, 66 LW 427 Comet, on those sites ?? Of coarse I took some slack .. but eventually I sold them for a fair price. Go to Europe... people in USA get offended by negociating .. in Europe you negociate for everything.

Sorry if you were offended. But you psted a car for sale and its still not for sale months later ??
Most prefere to buy a complete project car completely assembled over one dissasembled. Not only is there a question of parts but how it all goes together as well.

In restoring the other car I am working on, I had a friend help me pull it apart. I really didn't want the help but I apreciated his company. We did a good job of bagging and tagging everything. I took several photos along the way. Good thing I did. Durring reasembly I questioned how many many things went back together that I did not dissasemble; even though it's all layed out bagged and tagged in a nice order.

You can take a complete car, dissasemble it and drop it's value 20-50%.

Gary
quote:
I can't wait until you go to sell something on here Ron. I am gonna give you so much grief it will make your head spin. This is gonna be fun. :P


Detom .. I already did try to sell bumpers. Both guys emailed me and said they wanted them . then that was it. Never to be seen or heard from. You dont hear me whining. Oh and I was not the person hwo offered them 10 or 15k matter of fact I never made them an offer .. I back off when I heard the price.

Love Ron
Ron, no my Pantera is not quite ready, nor will it be offered for sale until it is ready. I appreciate your position, and the picture of your Pantera looks great. Best, ZZ

PS - (edit) Just for the record, I never posted my Pantera for sale. Someone else posted some info about it, which ultimately led to further comment. Sorry if that string of comments created difficulty for anyone.
ZZ
quote:
Detom .. I already did try to sell bumpers. Both guys emailed me and said they wanted them . then that was it. Never to be seen or heard from. You dont hear me whining. Oh and I was not the person hwo offered them 10 or 15k matter of fact I never made them an offer .. I back off when I heard the price.

I know Ron but I am gonna tease you anyway. Why?? because you are like a kid brother and I can. Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by comp2:
Most prefer to buy a project car completely assembled over one dissasembled. Not only is there a question of parts but how it all goes together as well.

You can take a complete car, dissasemble it and drop it's value 20-50%.Gary


Having disassembled every nut, bolt, tube, electrical connection, harness, bushing, etc and then reassembling them as part 6559's resto, I totally agree with Gary.

It was easy taking it apart; putting it together again is a whole other story. Even with good organization, the proper tools, pictures and notes, an experienced Pantera mechanic on call, and SOBill's excellent wiring diagrams, it was very time consuming.

I was thankful I only had a few extra, unaccounted for parts when it was all over. I can't imagine trying to do it without having the experience of taking it apart first.

Don't get me wrong here, it was very rewarding, too!

Jeff
6559
Last edited by jeff6559
Gary / Jeff

I see your point totally .. having restored a couple cars in my time ... its always best to have taken it apart .. any even if the normal chain of events dont take place ... where you get side tracked in life and you return to the project with a time lapse involved ... where memory is ata loss and you forget how everything wnet back ... even if that dosent happen ... its still hard to remember which parts went where and if in fact all the parts are still there. That was my only point of purchasing a disassembled car.

Ron
Plus you loose stuff. You go to put an assembly in and can't find the doo-hickey anywhere. You have looked everywhere twice. You finaly have to order one and wait for it to get in before you can go any further. You get it and it is the wrong size, phone calls send it back get the right one. Then two year after you are done you find the old dohickey. DOHHH!! now how in the hell did it get put in this coffee can???
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