AFD Alum heads

Kevin, Welcome to the PIBB! I did a quick search and found nothing. I know about AFR. Air Flow Reasearch. They make some very powerful products, and have a full line of street and race AL heads. I purchased a set of Brodix AL heads for my drag car off ebay for a resonable $1400. I added $600 with it and got the cam and compleate valvetrain included. You will find a lot of retiring racers that just can't take it anymore. AFR should be easy to find @ any search engine.

Kevin go to the afd website:
www. airflowdynamics.com

All the information on the various heads they make are there.

Kevin,

Let me be the second person to welcome you to the PIBB. Glad to have you with us!

There are 3 companies manufacturing aluminum 2V Cleveland heads at this time. Edelbrock, whom I am sure you are familiar with, plus 2 Australian companies: Air Flow Dynamics (AFD) and Cylinder Head Innovations (CHI). To your door in the US, fully prepared and ready to bolt onto your engine, the AFD 2V head is $2100 US, and the CHI head is $1950 US.

Here is the link to AFD: http://www.airflowdynamics.com.au/

And here is the link to CHI: http://www.chiheads.com/main.html

There is very little info available regarding the Edelbrock head, it is very new to the market. The AFD & CHI heads are very good products, both capable of supporting up to 600 bhp, and supplying air/fuel to a 351 cubic inch engine into the 7000 rpm range. They have well designed ports, modern high swirl combustion chambers & more centrally located spark plugs.

There is another Forum I hang out at specifically for the Cleveland engine, if you do a search in that database, you might find some owner feedback on those heads. Here's the link to that Forum: http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419?it=0

In my opinion, to have a set of iron heads fully rebuilt, machined for adjustable valve train, stainless steel valves installed, and ported will cost almost as much as the aluminum heads. For comparison, you can purchase a set of 302C heads (Australian Ford cast iron closed chamber 2V heads) fully rebuilt, prepped for adjustable valve train, 4V stainless steel valves installed from "Power Heads" for about $1000, for another $500 they'll hand port them as well, making them capable of supporting up to 500 bhp. That's $1500 total, and you would not have as good a head as the CHI or AFD heads, which will cost you another $450 to $600.

There is no such thing as a "bad" performing Cleveland cylinder head. The iron heads flow pretty good as cast. So if the budget is limited and you have to choose between one or the other, a hydraulic roller cam would be the wiser investment than an alloy cylinder head. I highly recommend using a hydraulic roller cam if you are attempting to increase the output of your motor.

I'll also take this opportunity to mention, besides 2V Cleveland heads, CHI makes a 3V head (2V intake port raised 3/8") and a 4V head. AFD makes a 4V head with a "stuffed" intake port (the floor of the port is raised).

your friend on the PIBB, George

Hello Kevin,
Welcome aboard. You've come to the right place for Pantera/Cleveland help. I have a set of the AFDs 2V heads. It's a good news, bad news situation. I could probably go on for pages here but I'll sum it up without thinking this through. It's going to cost a lot more than you're planning on when it's all said and done. I went with the AFDs with the intent on using a lot of my same stuff like intake and headers. The recommendation was to go with the Offy intake as it would fit under the stock screen, which I wanted to use. The intake needed a lot of work to match, beyond the normal port matching. It turns out, and I didn't know it at the time, that the heads came with a couple of spacers that go underneath the intake to raise it up. My heads were wrapped with some bubble wrap and were thrown in a box so they could bounce around. They were damaged but it took so long to get them I was glad they finally came. The box was damaged so I lost some spacers that go between the block and the intake. I didn't know what I didn't have so I had issues there. In order to get the whole thing to work I ended up buying headers anyway and that led to needing bigger pipes and all of that. It's a never ending story that a lot of us can tell on this board. One thing leads to another in the never ending quest for performance. That's the bad news I guess. The good news is that in spite of all the trials and tribulations, I'd buy the heads again. The car was dyno'd after the mods and I had 335hp at the rear wheels, more importantly was that the heads performed as promised. I don't have the dyno sheets in front of me but the torque curve was flat from 2,800 to 5,600 or something like that. It pulls all over the RPM range and that's what I was looking for. I've put over 10,000 miles on the car this summer, a lot of it on track and I haven't had any issues. If my wife didn't hate the car, she could probably drive it. There is another friend of mine locally who bought the 4V AFD's the same time as I got mine. He had a 408 or 393, I forget, and I think he had well over 500hp once again, proven on a dyno. I'll e mail him and tell him to write in his specifics. If you'd like to know more, give me a e mail and I'll go through my file at home and get out things like my cam card. One thing I do remember is that we kept adding advance and the engine loved it, I don't remember exactly where we ended up but the chamber shape was considered very efficient. It might have been as much as 40 total. As a side benefit, my mileage went up too. It's difficult to trust a Pantera gas gauge but I did the fill it up and then divide the mileage and how much it took to fill it back method. It might not be the most accurate. I took off a 650dp and went with a 770 Holley Street Avenger. I had major doubts but the engine guy said th trust him.
Where are you getting the heads from? I think there is a dealer in Illinois that is the official AFD dealer. While you're spending money, why don't you buy one of their Cleveland aluminum blocks and let us know how it works. I know they were supposed to be released soon. A few of us on this board would be candidates for that piece. Good luck and let me know if I can help. Vince

Vince,

Spacers? Really? CHI 3V's require spacers because the ports are raised, but the AFD 2V's? I'll be damn. Those are supposed to be standard location 2V ports. I'd like to know more. Are you running the Cleveland block, or a 9.5 Windsor block? What 2V Offy intake did you use?

I'm just trying to understand why spacers were involved at all.

Well I'm certainly sorry to read of the hell you went through, but I'm pleased to read you are happy with the results. The throttle response is bitchen isn't it?

your puzzled friend on the PIBB, George

I did call and spoke with dave at AFD and am impressed with the heads. Just wondered If anyone had them and how they liked the AFD's.
Sounds good.
Does any one have the 3V's?
I have not heard great things about the edlbrock's for a stroker.
Around $2,000 ish for heads is not to bad.
It's the $3,000 to $4,000 thats a killer.
Thanks, Kevin

You say that like it's a bad thing....
My wife's legs are to short to drive ours

[QUOTE]Originally posted by korina:
If my wife didn't hate the car, she could probably drive it.

I'm using the stock Cleveland block. I also gave the wrong intake manufacturer, I have a Weiand, not an Offy. I just finished reading about old Indy engines so my old, feeble mind has Offy on the brain. The spacers aren't the kind that go between the heads and manifold, these spacers go between the block and the manifold. The idea that you would just change the heads and go is where I screwed up. It was a happy ending though, Once you have everything torn apart you realize that you should change a lot more stuff in order to optimize the combination you're got. The heads really are the heart of the engine. Once you've spent the dough, the heads perform as advertised. Just remember you're dealing with a company across the world. My middle man was across the country.
I also ran into a surprise where it was discovered that I'd very recently bent a puhrod and leaned out # 5. The top of the piston was damaged and the con rod bearing was wasted. I had all the anguish of trying to figure out whether I needed to rebuild the whole short block or just buy some time. The decision was easy as I was out of money. Change the bearing and wait another year or 2 on the bottom end. That's another downside to having a loud, mid engine car. If the engine was in front of me, I think I would have heard and recognized the detonation. It's a happy ending though. The car screams and it's not a high strung beast. The heads worked as advertised. If you're looking for high RPM heads with a high winding motor and a very impressive HP number, get the Ford SVO heads. If you're looking for a car with a flat, broad torque curve, I'd recommend the AFD 2Vs. E mail me if you want specifics on my build. There is nothing exotic, just a well thought out combination of parts. Vince

The CHI intake fits the CHI 3V with raised ports. Would the CHI intake fit the AFD?

Gary

I was considering looking into the aluminum Heads and Manifold by Edelbrock. It's my understanding they offer a package for heads and manifold that are suppose to be bolt on ready.. The heads are complete and are 2V, 60 cc.

What is your thoughts on this set up ?

The best thing about Edelbrock is they may have their act together better then some of the smaller vendors. That is always a plus.

Gary

The edlbrock heads and itake might be a good combo for a 351 ci motor. But I have been told by several people that not on a stroker. AFD told me that they knew of a 380C stroke 2V steel heads dynoed. Then edlbrock heads dynoed, they made 30 to 40 HP more at 3,500 to 4,800. Before and after this the power and torque was flat.

Kevin

quote:

Originally posted by Coz:
I was considering looking into the aluminum Heads and Manifold by Edelbrock. It's my understanding they offer a package for heads and manifold that are suppose to be bolt on ready.. The heads are complete and are 2V, 60 cc.

What is your thoughts on this set up ?

I can't quit figure out how to email you.
kgovett@ev1.net
Kevin

quote:

Originally posted by korina:
I'm using the stock Cleveland block. I also gave the wrong intake manufacturer, I have a Weiand, not an Offy. I just finished reading about old Indy engines so my old, feeble mind has Offy on the brain. The spacers aren't the kind that go between the heads and manifold, these spacers go between the block and the manifold. The idea that you would just change the heads and go is where I screwed up. It was a happy ending though, Once you have everything torn apart you realize that you should change a lot more stuff in order to optimize the combination you're got. The heads really are the heart of the engine. Once you've spent the dough, the heads perform as advertised. Just remember you're dealing with a company across the world. My middle man was across the country.
I also ran into a surprise where it was discovered that I'd very recently bent a puhrod and leaned out # 5. The top of the piston was damaged and the con rod bearing was wasted. I had all the anguish of trying to figure out whether I needed to rebuild the whole short block or just buy some time. The decision was easy as I was out of money. Change the bearing and wait another year or 2 on the bottom end. That's another downside to having a loud, mid engine car. If the engine was in front of me, I think I would have heard and recognized the detonation. It's a happy ending though. The car screams and it's not a high strung beast. The heads worked as advertised. If you're looking for high RPM heads with a high winding motor and a very impressive HP number, get the Ford SVO heads. If you're looking for a car with a flat, broad torque curve, I'd recommend the AFD 2Vs. E mail me if you want specifics on my build. There is nothing exotic, just a well thought out combination of parts. Vince

Keven,
These are the heads I've been considering.
Performer RPM 351C
Designed for 351C, 351M and 400M
Very streetable 190cc intake runners
2.05" intake and 1.60" exhaust valves
"Compact charge" combustion chamber design
Optimized spark plug location

PERFORMER RPM FOR FORD 351C

Chamber Size
Intake Port Size
Valve Sizes (in/ex)
Bare (single)
Complete (single)

60cc
190cc
2.05"/1.60"
#61609*
#61629*

Note: When bolting on to 289/302 engines using 7/16" bolts, use stepped head bolt washer kit #9680.

Vince, is it possible you have CHI heads?

Here's a pic of a AFD 2V motor with a 2V intake, no adapter.

George

That top end sure do look purdy!

Michael

Hi Michael,

Yes, it looks BITCHEN! LOL

Australian heads & Australian intake manifold.

All the good stuff for the Cleveland comes from Australia these days.

Coz,

Edelbrock heads don't have much of a reputation for being big power makers out of the box, with porting yes, but not out of the box. Edelbrock's new Cleveland head is just too new. No feedback yet on it's performance. Lots of happy CHI & AFD customers out there, these are quality products, Vince's shipping problems aside.

I'll make a general statement. Cleveland 4V heads flow very well, don't expect to make more peak bhp with new heads. What you will accomplish with the 2V heads is more average torque across a wider powerband and better throttle response.

your friend on the PIBB, George

Hello George,
Definitely AFDs. No question. I'll take a picture. It's pretty obvious. Vince

Go to the cars for sale section and look at the car for sale earlier this month by toby7777. Look at his engine picture. You can see the spacer under his intake. Vince