alternative to saftey wire

That would probably work but I'm not sure it would be any easier. The trans that I had redone the bolts came loose and they didn't fall out they actually sheared off some of the heads dropping a few of them in the bottom of the case where there wasn't enough room for them and the ring gear it cracked the bottom cover.

I was lucky it was repairable and the gears were OK. It could have been much worse.

Yikes!

Mark,
I read your post here and just smiled. When I got my car in 2000, It was shipped from Europe to New York and finally to Florida where I picked it up and drove it home to Arizona.

Getting it home and starting the rebulding process, the motor & ZF came out. I pulled the bottom cover on the ZF and found all of the bolt heads sheered off and only 4 studs from the bolts still holding the ring gear in place.

I think back that I drove my car 2000+ miles from Florida to Arizona like this and HOW LUCKY I was to actually make it home.

Just had to smile.

I have a technical question.

Upon drilling the ring gear bolts were they larger heads when drilled for saftey wire. Would drilling them weaken them.

Couldnt you just use LOCTITE Red.

Why is the Pantera ring egar different then any other ring gear where LOCTITE wouldnt work.

The saftey wire is a great idea but I guess the bolts are replaced with ones that have a little more meat on them.

Ron

ACC, What I hear is that the bolts are very hard, and quite diffucult to drill. I belive you can buy the bolts with holes in them either from a vender or Roy Butfoy. Cheverlet diff are reverse threads, how about the ZF?

Bill,

I see from reading that these bolts loosening up is a real life situation. I never experienced this in any other Trans before. I'm not sure which direction the bolt are as of yet, but I will find out shortly.

Thanks.

When I did my 12 years of Gearbox building on Indy car teams, I was lucky to talk to all the top Engineers from Hewland,Getrag,Extrac and so on, All said and still say with a big tag on the ring gear, DO NOT RE-USE OLD RING GEAR BOLTS
The big reason is the strech from the torque.
So after time they will back out, or the head pop's off. Race cars and Aeroplanes, you Loctite and saftey wire everything. There alot of short cuts to doing it right, but you end up paying more in the end. Just my two cents. Lloyd Butfoy

Lloyd, can we buy the new pre-drilled bolts from you?

Thanks Lloyd! Good point. what should the tourqe be on the dash 2 ring bolts that are new? Can we do this at home?

Thanks Lloyd,

Can the bolts be purchased from you and the saftey wire is SS wire. What other modifications do you recommend ? The Trans will be used in a racing application.

Ron

great topic!

Another question-
=> Since I haven't any idea if my trans is safety wired or not (no documentation to prove either way) and I don't plan on pulling the motor anytime soon, what do I look for or listen for for that matter with regards to the ZF? The last thing I want is to blow my trans...

...or is this one of those things I should look into having done ASAP no matter what the cost?

You won't hear anything good, just the sound of it self distructing.
I never realized how common this is. I'm affraid to go anywhere until it is done.
There has to be an inherant problem. Either the bolts were no good to begin with, or something?
If they are loosening up with Loctite then it's the bolts are stretching. They should be at least a 180,000 psi tensile strength.
Ring bolts these days are super alloy. They are oveer 180, usually 200 or more.
I plan on a set of bolts from Lloyd very shortly.
I have NEVER heard of ring gear bolts shearing the heads. They must be made by the Super Mario Bros out of linguini. Geeze, give us a break.

Some thing doesnt sound right. I never heard of this either. Maybe the bolts were made this way as to be the weak link so not to break axles or half shafts ?????

Anyway mine will be saftey wired.

Ron

common Pantera malady....

Oh no, my nuts are loose!

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
Oh no, my nuts are loose!

OK, You guys quit fooling around! This is a serious situation. I had ny car on the lift today. It looks like you could loosen up the trans mounts and maybe the motor mounts and raise the trans up enough to remove the long bolts that go through the rear cover. I would order the bolts today if I knew for sure I could do it with the trans in the car. I have a lift in my home shop....can it be done?

Don't you just drop the pan?

I see two bolts about 7 inches long that go through the pan left to right. I appears they come out then drop the pan. The back one looks like it will pass through the hole in the tub that the axle passes through.....the front one don't look like it will make the hole. I would cut a hole in the tub to keep from pulling the trans.

Bill,

the trans pulls pretty easily. Its a bit harder going back in, but its a breeze coming out. Hell, its easier to pull a trans in a Pantera, than it is to drop a trans in a normal car. It's probably the only part of the Pantera that is actually EASIER to work on. I've looked the job over, and pulling the inspection cover with the trans in the car looks impossible to me.

your friend on the DTBB

Pullin' the trannie sounds like a lot of work. Can't you just cut the bolts out with a sawzall?

I'll bet you used more then a couple of Brillo pads on that one George.

Doug, I ripped that picture off the 'net. My car is not a show car, mine's a working car. My tranny is grubby. You never see it unless I remove the tub, which is rare.

Ripped it off the net? I'm shocked! I hope that all of your nieces that you are kind enough to post as your avitars will understand.
I hope to meet them in person eventually. That would be great.

If you go bach in the posts I talked about the bolt heads popping off after they back out and hit the main case as the diff rotates. We sell the bolts and the wire,use red loctite and torque to 65 ftlbs is all you need to do to save you $2500.00 for a ring gear, $450.00 for a pinion bearing and $650.00 for a new main case for dash 2. There are no more dash 1 cases to be found, so you will have to change to the 2. Lloyd Butfoy @ RBT