BJ Auction Pantera

Dave,
I think it goes across the block tomorrow sometime. Lot 762. We'll just see what it gets. I just hope it goes up for auction when it's televised.....

Let the fantasy bidding begin

The car may be very nice but looks kind of boring in the catalog pictures

My fantasy bid is $45,000.00

Closest bid not exceeding the actual bid price wins

I think auction fever will drive the Pantera to $52k

Last night an amphicar went for 115K. I would say the Pantera will be sold for 67K.

I'll say $48K.
Tom

54000 my guess for the Pantera. I was looking at Aphicars a couple of months ago on ebay. One was 13000, the guy said that is what he paid for it, had his fun for 5 years and 2000 miles, now it is your turn. That would be fun down at the lake.

Does it have a reserve? If so, I bet it doesn't meet it. Maybe it goes into the high 30's??

Really nice looking car, but the exterior/interior color probably won't do well on an auction. I think a more traditional sale, say on the PI website, probably suits this car better.

Hope I'm wrong though

No Reserve Kevin! From what I hear very few car have a reserve this go.

Yeah when I saw that amphicar shoot up to over a hundred grand in less than a minute I turned it off. I couldn't stand to see anymore.
I think BJ rules are such you can't put a reserve on your car. They are also real picky about what cars they let in. LIke they wouldn't allow my car for sure. You have to be able to eat escargo off the intake manifold or something. It has to have matching spark plug numbers or some crap like that.

Detom,
I couldn't agree more. I guess I'd be out because I used non-stock bolts on the license plate.

Sometimes that "concours" stuff gets plumb silly. Like antique furniture, it is supposed to "ruin" the value if you fix it. Phhhht!! I don't care how old something is, if it is broken it ain't much good to no one.

DeTom,
I hear what you are saying, between the previous owner of 6808, and myself, we have made this car "worthless" oh well, I guess I'll just "have " to keep her for awhile.
Regards Mark 6808

Well Mark I think you and I are not alone. They made a whole new catagory for guys like us. It is called resto-mod. The Pantera apitomizes the concept. Classic car with updated features. What can be better???

So DeTom, would an old car, that has been well maintained, never restored, but modified by the owner be a "Survivor-mod"?

George

115 K for an AMPHICAR?
OBVIOUSLY SOMEONE HAS WAY MORE MONEY THAN BRAIN'S OR COMMON SENSE!!!!!

Also saw a FANCY PT CRUISER[CUSTOM PAINT LOT'S OF CHROME ETC] WITH MATCHING TRAILER SELL FOR 49K.WTF!!! At the end of the day it's still a PT CRUISER!

Not sure George. They did list four new catagories on the show though.

Pantera at BJ auction was reportedly sold at $42,000.00 hammer price plus the 8% auction fees

Looks like you were the closest Mark. You were off by only $360!

With fees the final price was $45,360.

I'm glad to hear that the car sold for a 'reasonable' price.

Did anyone catch the BJ Auction on New Years? I believe the Pantera that sold that day went for around $37k- can't remember exactly, but it was an 'unmolested original' according to BJ. My thought was that there was no one really interested present so the car went for less than I thought it was worth. The other thing that the BJ Auction brings to mind is the fact that the auction itself is proof that these wonderful automobiles are worth more than the stinkin write-up in I forgot what magazine- but the headline was "Exotics for under 25k". That's garbage- so is the process that insurance companies use to place value to our cars. Anyway, that's me ranting, but I beleive that some of these auctions or private sales should be made public to insurance companies and so forth to make it known what monetary value these cars do have (and I'm speaking of sale value not our value of these cars as owners cuz God knows that value is somewhere in the stratosphere).

Motorcity, you should probably realize that insurance companies would love to raise the amount of money you have to pay every month because of increasing value of the item being insured. In fact I have to tell my insurance company how much the car is worth and if the market keeps its trend, I will soon be grossly underinsured.

When it comes to insurance, eliminate the uncertainty of letting the insurance company determine the "Market Value" of the car. Get an "Agreed Value" policy where both you and the insurance company agree on the value in advance. Note this is different than a "Stated Value" policy which pays Market Value but not more than the Stated Value.

Haggerty Collector Car Insurance does Agreed Value.

Jeff
6559

Here's one from last year. A painfully stock 32,000 mile 72 Pantera. A car an originality freak would drool over.

Correct interior, correct factory engine bay, 10 inch Campy wheels, chrome bumpers, etc, etc.. Sold for a bit over $40,000.

Pantera

Josh

Get an "Agreed Value" policy where both you and the insurance company agree on the value in advance. Note this is different than a "Stated Value" policy which pays Market Value but not more than the Stated Value.

Haggerty Collector Car Insurance does Agreed Value.
I have a stated policy 28,000, car must be driven less than 2000 anualy, garaged and car club membership, through JC Taylor about $400 anually.
..LPB

This Pantera just didn't show well. It looked like it had some nice parts but the engine compartment looked daily driver dirty leading me to believe the paint, suspension and brakes and the rest of the car where in the same condition. A side note is that digital pictures usually make a car look better than it is and those auction pictures didn't look to good!

Of course that is just speculation as I'm just sitting here at the computer and not at the auction.

The new owner may just need to give the car a little elbow grease and T.L.C. to produce a really nice Pantera

quote:

Originally posted by lastpushbutton:
I have a stated policy 28,000, car must be driven less than 2000 anualy, garaged and car club membership, through JC Taylor about $400 anually.
..LPB

Yipes, I gotta think a pushbutton is worth more than $28?

The thing I like about an Agreed Value policy is that the value can reflect more than the Market or Stated Value. Why is this important? Well let's say you have a car that recently underwent a restoration or other costly upgrade. We all know that the money you spend on the resto is not totally reflected in the Market Value of the car. With an Agreed Value policy, however, you can insure the car for the money you have put into the car, even if it is above Market Value, provided it is reasonable.

For perspective, I pay a little more than LBP for an no mileage limitation Agreed Value policy where the agreed value is considerably higher to reflect the recent restoration costs I have incurred. In my case, I wouldn't want to risk the money I have spent on the car with a Stated Value policy. IMHO, that is what insurance is all about.

Jeff
6559

Mark I agree. The pictures didn't look very good. It got what I expected. Also, BJ seems to be all about muscle cars anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by JK:
Here's one from last year. A painfully stock 32,000 mile 72 Pantera. A car an originality freak would drool over.

Correct interior, correct factory engine bay, 10 inch Campy wheels, chrome bumpers, etc, etc.. Sold for a bit over $40,000.

Pantera

Josh

I just noticed the car I posted about has been on BJ three times! All three links show VIN 2662.

2005 Auction Sold for $40,700

2004 Auction High bid $27,500

2002 Auction Sold for $35,100

quote:

Originally posted by popsrcr:
Mark I agree. The pictures didn't look very good. It got what I expected. Also, BJ seems to be all about muscle cars anyway.

I totally agree that the barret jackson is all about musclecars.Just look at how many ferrari's went up for auction this year compared to others.This auction is not the place to bring your pantera or any other exotic in my opinion.The best place to sell a pantera is this site .
Sam

This insurance topic, I despise the insurance industry. Just this morning I was watching Katrina victims being denied claims because the insurance co. says there was no wind damage, only flooding. It was obvious that trees were blown down all around the destroied home. If you buy a new american car for say $35000. The insurance is a fixed amount. In 3 years when that car has depreciated to half it's sale price, does the insurance company decrease the amout of cost for coverage? NO! If your car appreaceates in value will they pay for the extra loss? NO! In my state you can go without insurance, the only catch is you must pay the state $500 anually for each car. You can get screwed by the insurance companies for less than that! LF-TP I'm taking your advice, and going shopping.

On the JB auction..... I had to roll over and go to sleep after a 70 hemi cuda sold for 1.6 million. Trust me ..the bubble will POP!

And then the daytona winged racer went for a couple hundred thousand. A racer that was raced and was key to the major nascar changes and the Cuda was a street car which got some of it's pizzaz from this racer. I thought it was unbalanced.

Will the buble pop? Evryone says so but the last couple years shows from BJ to dream car garage have imortalized these cars. It has made it "OK" for people of large amounts of money to collect them like art. The price of gas has nothing to do with the value of a car that won't be driven. Cars like the "Hemi" cars coming out now will never be the "real deal" where as these cars of 60's will. Will it pop?

All cars form about 1900-1975 will always have a special desireablility. The world went through an industrial revolution it will never do again. cars of all breads pre 70's are comanding large amounts of money. I think poeple are realizing we will never go back to an era where cars were what they were. By comparison today, most cars are over complicated tools and will have little or no collector value. Certainly not compared to those. Check out this car on e-bay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1904-Oldsmobile-Curved-D...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Who would have thought it would take $50K to buy a wooden buggy?

Gary

Panteras have historically done poorly at auction. The Hall Super Pantera would have sold for more through the normal channels. The B-J Auction result confirms my original thoughts. Why do you think Panteras don't do well at auctions?

Here is my wild guess. These fat cats at the auction are early baby boomers who made it big. When they were kids they knew somebody who had a muscle car, a young guy. The Pantera was mainly a doctor or denist car, cause they were the only ones who could afford them. Now no teenage kid is ever gonna think a 55 year old dentist is cool, but a 20 something year old mechanic with a hemi dart, now they will remember that as the ultimate in cool from when they were growing up. The Pantera was cheaper than a new ferrai, but still way more money than a fully loaded corvette, back in the day. Back in those days you could buy two hemi cuda for the price of one Pantera. Anyway BJ guys are all trying to relive their childhood, so they want cars they remember that johnny cool down the street had. Not Dr. Jenkins.

OK DeTom, I'll buy into that at a certain price point.

But at the higher price levels, the guys with big bucks to spend, didn't acquire that money making emotional purchases & bad choices. They made their money by being financially wise. If they're spending a small fortune on a "muscle car" it must be because they believe there is money yet to be made, or that it will at least hold it's value.

The poor old Pantera does not look like an investment to anybody, and, it is not in high demand. This second condition is due to the fact that there is not a lot of magazine hype for the Pantera, there never has been. PI does not have the same circulation as popular hot rodding. Even among sports car fanatics, who are a minority in the US, the Pantera is not high on the list of cars they dream about, Jaguars E types & MGBs are more popular, probably due to the influence of Road & Track, which never gave the Pantera the time of day.

One last social phenomena that is occuring is the "dream garage" craze. Rich guys are building themselves small automobile collections, bidding on muscle cars like others bid on antiques. I think among that group, there are certain cars that are accepted as the cool cars to have in your collection, and everybody is trying to acquire the same car, driving the prices up on those particular models. The Pantera is not on that list either.

Your friend on the DTBB, George

I think a lot of it has to do with how unknown a Pantera is. Generally speaking, those who go to an auction to buy a Hemi anything don't know what a Pantera is much less how to bid on it. A lot of getting a good buy on anything at an auction is often to go there to buy that which the auction is not focused on. Car parts go pretty cheap at a dress auction and VS versa. Dad bought a 1908 sears at a local tool auction for a little of nothing. After researching it and restoring it we have found it is either #2 or #7! If that had gone at an auction for Horsless cariage cars it would have gone for a lot.

Like wise if PI has an auction it would atract PI people from all over the world. I kind of think the Pantera as an undiscovered muscle car and pehaps even one of the first platforms that everone modified and upgraded. (I forgot the name in the hot rod comunity)

quote:

Originally posted by Whiplash:
Panteras have historically done poorly at auction. The Hall Super Pantera would have sold for more through the normal channels. The B-J Auction result confirms my original thoughts. Why do you think Panteras don't do well at auctions?

I'll chime in on this one with my opinionated point of view:

1. Panteras have a reputation for problems. Whenever Panteras are brought up the first order of discussion is always the problems the car has. Car mags have been relentless about this. Every article mentions problems, but they never go on to say they were corrected by the time the later cars were sold (73-74). Heck, that's all we talk about, too. It's a bum rap. I bought a brand new 74L and drove it every day, rain, snow, and shine, for three years in Chicago. I never had a problem.

2. The cars don't fit into a neat category. They aren't Ferraris. They aren't muscle cars. They aren't sports cars. (They are all of these. Personally, I feel we are closer to hot rods than anything else what with the way we mod them up.) So, when a new owner brings home the car, he can't tell his friends the car is in one of the categories most people relate to. That's awkward.

3. Car mags don't get it. They don't understand the essence of the car. They always do articles about stock or near-stock examples. They always mention the problems. Never do they talk about the passion of the owners, the performance relative to other cars of that era, the performance upgrade possibilities, contemporary racing competitiveness, the fact that many of the cars are being restomoded to a high standard. We need articles that capture this essence.

4. Too many Panteras have wings. I know this runs counter to what many of us like but let's be honest; how many cool cars have wings? It's too boy racerish for the collector car crowd.

5. Too many Panteras have aftermarket wheels. The only cars I see with these kinds of wheels are pimped up Escalades. Sorry, just my opinion.

6. There are a lot of Panteras out there that are being sold with problems. Since the car hasn't gone up in value much, a lot of owners haven't invested in keeping them properly maintained and updated. Those cars get sold and the new owners get surprised. So what do they tell their friends, "The car has problems." I know they should do their homework before they buy, but it still seems to happen alot. I can't think of recently purchased car here in North Texas that didn't have some sort of serious problem that came as a surprise to the new owner.

7. Too many people really don't know squat about these cars. They don't know about the performance capability. They don't know about our great vendors. They don't know the racing heritage. They don't know about the famous people involved. They don't know about the advanced for its time construction of the car.


So, what do we do? Education. We need to educate ourselves, we need to educate the public, we need to educate the car magazines. One of the ways I would suggest is the new POCA website which is being developed now. It can provide a single source to truly learn about the cars, to find fixes and upgrades, to learn how to buy a car, lastly, to have a sense of community. This would be a start.

Respectfully submitted.

Jeff
6559

Ok, here is my 2 cents. First of all, the Pantera at BJ didn't present well (from a very good source). Secondly, it didn't have a Hemi in it. Buyers at BJ pay big dollars for cars that are over restored that present well, and show were the restoration money was spent. I don't agree with the 115 ampicar or the 1.1 mil for a Chevelle, but the buyer for what ever reason saw fit to spend his or her money on it. If we want big money for our cars, they need to show that they are worth big money.